BYD: Road to Dominance of Electric Vehicle/Transport

[TaiShang]

The mindset change is because the car really changes the way I spend my leisure time. Nowadays, it is very common for me to departure the home at 9am, take lunch at some nearby cities by noon, do some sightseeing after the lunch, return to Shanghai after that, and take dinner at home with my parents. But I won't imagine the same thing if I don't have the car.

That's a very acute observation really. The freedom a car gives cannot be traded with any efficient public transportation for leisure, especially. So, for work, rely on public transportation. For leisure and adventure, just own an SUV.

No wonder Chinese have fallen in love with SUVs.

 

[BoQ77]

To me,
- if the destination is within 400km range, I'll drive on my own;
- 400~1500km, I'll go with high speed trains;
- >1500km, flight is the only choice.


car rental is still in small scale, but start to gain popularity.

Take me as the example, I made a trip to Changchun (the capital city of Jilin Province) in 2013. I took the flight there, and picked up a car at the rental place at airport. I drove the car for my trip in Changchun/Jilin. I even drove to the borderline between China and DPRK.

even my country still has no HSR, I feel even with HSR beyond 1000km is the range of air passenger. HSR should fill the gap between car and airplane. In a country w.o HSR like us, airplane provide better service from 500+
the reason for limit range per HSR route is to reach highspeed ie. 300kmph it consumes more electricity. And it is more comfortable to travel 1000km in 1h15m compare to 4 hours

 

[GS Zhou]

For the long distance driving, I know that's popular American hobby, now I know that Chinese also has that.

China replaced US as world largest car market since 2010. In last year (2015), there's about 20 million cars sales in China; the sales result in US is about 14 million cars. China now owns world longest express network, about 120,000 km long; the same network for US is about 75,000 km long. So, if Chinese don't like to drive, there won't be that many new cars sold in China; there also won't be world longest expressway network in China.

China and Vietnam are neighboring countries. Our Vietnam friend also likes to make comments on China-related topic, but it seems that you don't understand how China looks like today. But anyway, I like the conversation with you in this thread. Hope you too.

 

[BoQ77]

I myself feel the hobby of American is unreasonable, costly. Instead of that they have developed network of air transport..
maybe I dont understand why they even want to watch outdoor cinema via windshield of their car or adopt drive in fastfood.

the road quality in China quite good, HSR developing fast. Although I am worried about the effectiveness of it.
I only wish my country has the same network as traditional railway of China for low cost operation. Our people worried about the effectiveness of HSR project in Vietnam.
so we satisfied with air transport which developing quite fast in Vietnam,
I booked a two way from Hanoi to Phu Quoc island means a length of Vietnam land for my sister for US$65

 

[GS Zhou]

even my country still has no HSR, I feel even with HSR beyond 1000km is the range of air passenger. HSR should fill the gap between car and airplane. In a country w.o HSR like us, airplane provide better service from 500+
the reason for limit range per HSR route is to reach highspeed ie. 300kmph it consumes more electricity. And it is more comfortable to travel 1000km in 1h15m compare to 4 hours

it depends on how you judge the time difference. I'm a frequent traveler between Beijing and Shanghai (1200km route). I usually take HSR for the trip:
- for HSR, you just need to arrive at the train station 10min before the departure; but for airline, you need to be at least 45min earlier
- for HSR, you don't need to waste the time to wait for the baggage, to wait for the transit bus, which again will take you about 20min.
- the HSR station is usually in city center; but the airport is far from the city center; so you can save the time from home to airport, or from airport to hotel
- the train is always punctual, but flight not.
- on the HSR, you can make calls, send emails, so you won't lose the connection with outside world. But you could not expect the same on plane.

Although I am worried about the effectiveness of it.

I would suggest you to make a vacation in China, and try HSR as the tool for travel between different Chinese cities. I think that is the best way for you to make comment on "effectiveness of the Chinese HSR system".

Maybe you can also make a visit to BYD dealer, and try either Tang or Qin there

 

[Edison Chen]

YUTONG E12 electric bus in France. Beautiful.

 

[BoQ77]

it depends on how you judge the time difference. I'm a frequent traveler between Beijing and Shanghai (1200km route). I usually take HSR for the trip:
- for HSR, you just need to arrive at the train station 10min before the departure; but for airline, you need to be at least 45min earlier
- for HSR, you don't need to waste the time to wait for the baggage, to wait for the transit bus, which again will take you about 20min.
- the HSR station is usually in city center; but the airport is far from the city center; so you can save the time from home to airport, or from airport to hotel
- the train is always punctual, but flight not.
- on the HSR, you can make calls, send emails, so you won't lose the connection with outside world. But you could not expect the same on plane.


I would suggest you to make a vacation in China, and try HSR as the tool for travel between different Chinese cities. I think that is the best way for you to make comment on "effectiveness of the Chinese HSR system".

Maybe you can also make a visit to BYD dealer, and try either Tang or Qin there

good advice, I will remember that.

 

[jhungary]

5~6 hours for charging is acceptable to city buses, because you won't expect the buses be operation in deep night.

A dedicated charging station is a must have to electric bus operators. Here is a picture of a charge station in China.
View attachment 303532

I don't think the bus has an additional backup battery. Its battery package could run for 250km, which is enough for a bus for inner-city purpose.

If you want to do inter-city travel, forget bus, and take the high speed trains please!

You will need a backup battery because you don't just use it once a day and get it back to the depot and recharge.

250km is not generally enough for Inner City Travel in Australia. Unless you use your bus for one or two round trip and then back to depot. City Bus route in Australia standard average 70+ Km a round trip, with traffic and stoppage, 250km range would be about 2 round trips time, then you need to head back to the depot for recharge. Which means a single bus could only be used for 4 service hours with an average speed of 50km/h (Normal City Speed limit) With an extra hours used to and from depot. Which means you will need 4 bus for 1 route on an average 16 hours day.

And it would not be suitable for direct express within City. Which is usually 100+ Km per round trip.

 

[AndrewJin]

it depends on how you judge the time difference. I'm a frequent traveler between Beijing and Shanghai (1200km route). I usually take HSR for the trip:
- for HSR, you just need to arrive at the train station 10min before the departure; but for airline, you need to be at least 45min earlier
- for HSR, you don't need to waste the time to wait for the baggage, to wait for the transit bus, which again will take you about 20min.
- the HSR station is usually in city center; but the airport is far from the city center; so you can save the time from home to airport, or from airport to hotel
- the train is always punctual, but flight not.
- on the HSR, you can make calls, send emails, so you won't lose the connection with outside world. But you could not expect the same on plane.


I would suggest you to make a vacation in China, and try HSR as the tool for travel between different Chinese cities. I think that is the best way for you to make comment on "effectiveness of the Chinese HSR system".

Maybe you can also make a visit to BYD dealer, and try either Tang or Qin there

Sharp and accurate observations from real expertness

even my country still has no HSR, I feel even with HSR beyond 1000km is the range of air passenger. HSR should fill the gap between car and airplane. In a country w.o HSR like us, airplane provide better service from 500+
the reason for limit range per HSR route is to reach highspeed ie. 300kmph it consumes more electricity. And it is more comfortable to travel 1000km in 1h15m compare to 4 hours

U can't have an airport every 50km, but an HSR can.
Beijing-Shanghai HSR has over 100 million passengers annually. How can airports cater for the entire corridor?
I have been to Vietnam and I took the unification train from Hanoi to Saigon. If u mean, there is only need from Hanoi to Saigon but no need to care for the people living in the middle, then of course airplanes should be the only choice left.

See the number (km) between stations of HSR network around Nanjing-Hefei, can u build airports like this?

To me,
- if the destination is within 400km range, I'll drive on my own;
- 400~1500km, I'll go with high speed trains;
- >1500km, flight is the only choice.


car rental is still in small scale, but start to gain popularity.

Take me as the example, I made a trip to Changchun (the capital city of Jilin Province) in 2013. I took the flight there, and picked up a car at the rental place at airport. I drove the car for my trip in Changchun/Jilin. I even drove to the borderline between China and DPRK.

For me, <50km, metro or bus.
60-300km, 200km/h intercity HSR
300-2000km, 300km/h trunk route HSR
>2000km, overnight sleeper trains
I won't choose domestic flight unless have to.

Because seats on HSR are way much more comfortable than economy class which I can only afford, every second on the plane(confined in such a terribly narrow space with ear pain, no scenery, no phone signal, and possible terrible turbulence) is a torture, to say nothing of the lengthy procedures before and after.
In terms of ticket fare, u can't always find cheap flight ticket, no way can u find one during holiday. But train ticket prices are 100% stable for years.

I have 100% sympathy towards those who can only choose flights for long-distance journeys, which are 1000000% abysmal (I am not speaking for the business/first class type of people).

 

[BoQ77]

1. As I said there're ranges for HSR to ulitilize its advantage, to me, its max range ( of advantage ) about 3 hours of travelling, mean max is 750-900 km.
2. Hanoi - Saigon isn't the only route, there're many other airports, for example from Hanoi to Danang, about 900km, it takes 1h15m and cost about 25$, by Unification train it takes 16-17 hours. There're air route for Hanoi - Quy Nhon, Nha Trang, Tuy Hoa, Chu Lai, or Haiphong / Sai gon to those,
And to island like Phu Quoc.
Before our people choose sleeper train to travel from Hanoi - Sai gon ( it takes 32 hours of travelling for under 2000km ), now they changed to 2 hours flights

I'm not sure HSR could stop every 50 km or not,
In Vietnam, for upto 300 km, the best is express bus ( it takes 4-5 hours ).

For 500-1,800 km, the best one is airplane for short time travelling, max 2 hours.
Our traditional railway is bad, so before they may use railway, but now with new express road, they could choose express bus or car.

Our country is small, and it's easy to be in a international target to Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Manila... in ASEAN, so flights are very familiar to us.

Sharp and accurate observations from real expertness
U can't have an airport every 50km, but an HSR can.
Beijing-Shanghai HSR has over 100 million passengers annually. How can airports cater for the entire corridor?
I have been to Vietnam and I took the unification train from Hanoi to Saigon. If u mean, there is only need from Hanoi to Saigon but no need to care for the people living in the middle, then of course airplanes should be the only choice left.
See the number (km) between stations of HSR network around Nanjing-Hefei, can u build airports like this?
View attachment 303588
For me, <50km, metro or bus.
60-300km, 200km/h intercity HSR
300-2000km, trunk route HSR
>2000km, overnight sleeper trains
I won't choose domestic flight unless have to.
Because seats on HSR are way much more comfortable than economy class which I can only afford, every second on the plane(confined in such a terribly narrow space with ear pain, no scenery, no phone signal, and possible terrible turbulence) is a torture, to say nothing of the lengthy procedures before and after.
In terms of ticket fare, u can't always find cheap flight ticket, no way u can find one during holiday. But train ticket prices are 100% stable for years.

I have 100% sympathy towards those who can only choose flights for long-distance journeys, which are 100% abysmal (I am not speaking for the business/first class type of people).

 

[AndrewJin]

1. As I said there're ranges for HSR to ulitilize its advantage, to me, its max range ( of advantage ) about 3 hours of travelling, mean max is 750-900 km.
2. Hanoi - Saigon isn't the only route, there're many other airports, for example from Hanoi to Danang, about 900km, it takes 1h15m and cost about 25$, by Unification train it takes 16-17 hours. There're air route for Hanoi - Quy Nhon, Nha Trang, Tuy Hoa, Chu Lai, or Haiphong / Sai gon to those,
And to island like Phu Quoc.
Before our people choose sleeper train to travel from Hanoi - Sai gon ( it takes 32 hours of travelling for under 2000km ), now they changed to 2 hours flights

I'm not sure HSR could stop every 50 km or not,
In Vietnam, for upto 300 km, the best is express bus ( it takes 4-5 hours ).

For 500-1,800 km, the best one is airplane for short time travelling, max 2 hours.
Our traditional railway is bad, so before they may use railway, but now with new express road, they could choose express bus or car.

Our country is small, and it's easy to be in a international target to Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Manila... in ASEAN, so flights are very familiar to us.

Questions:
1, Can u build an airport every 30-50km? Is that the case in Vietnam? I think my province is much wealthier than Vietnam, but we can't afford that.
2, Can u find tickets cheap like $25(?) all the year around and all 24 hours? Don't tell me those rubbish time flights that get u there at 11pm-1am on a non-holiday.
3, 4-5 hours (for 300km) in China means from Shanghai to Beijing. So basically u can stand that for 300km, but can't stand 5 hours on a bullet where u can walk, take a phone, enjoy scenery as opposed to getting to the airport hours before and confined in a crazily uncomfortable seat like on jail's electric chair?
4, Your country is not small in terms of from north to south, being small, look at European countries, being big, look at China.
5, As far as I know, the population in Vietnam covered by effective distance from airports (I don't mean those u have to take an "express bus" for hours to the nearest airport) is small. Vietnam is not like Australia where nearly all population live in some isolated metropolitans. As I observed from the unification train, u guys live county by county, township by township all the way from north to south.
6, U are not sure HSR could stop every 50km?
Again, read the number.

 

[BoQ77]

25$ for normal 1h15m flight, saver fare could be 14$.
2h 40$
for short distance 50-100-150 it is the range of express bus in Vietnam
to reach airport it tạkes 30m in Hanoi, 10m in Da Nang.

 

[AndrewJin]

25$ for normal 1h15m flight, saver fare could be 14$.
2h 40$
for short distance 50-100-150 it is the range of express bus in Vietnam
to reach airport it tạkes 30m in Hanoi, 10m in Da Nang.

Gosh, now I'm getting confused why so many lower class Vietnamese chose to take the slow trains from Hanoi to Danang which are even more expensive than China's slow trains....

These prices (economy) are even more expensive than 300km/h HSR in China, same distance.

 

[BoQ77]

Gosh, now I'm getting confused why so many lower class Vietnamese chose to take the slow trains from Hanoi to Danang which are even more expensive than China's slow trains....
View attachment 303599

These prices (economy) are even more expensive than 300km/h HSR in China, same distance.

Vietnam Airline is more expensive, check with Vietjet Air, Jetstar
slow train in Vietnam expensive, need to renovate. To admit

If Vietnam order HSR, it should be between HCMC to Mui Ne and Nha Trang

 

[AndrewJin]

Vietnam Airline is more expensive, check with Vietjet Air, Jetstar
slow train in Vietnam expensive, need to renovate. To admit

If so cheap, why do people outside Hanoi, say those boarding the trains from a station 150km south to Hanoi choose trains over flights? Why don't u build an airport every 30-50km, not just for the "elites" in very few regions with an airport?

I was trying to find a cheap flight like u mentioned, with tax and check-in luggage nearly same as high-sped railways in China. And such short distance 3 hours at most by bullet trains.

I won't discuss on this topic anymore, i feel my views are being narrowed by some unknown forces without a comprehensive understanding of social-economic factors and the interactions between transportation and social change...I assume, on the national level, prices are the least factor to consider for the long-run.