Bullet train will need 100 trips daily to be financially viable: Study

[anant_s]

What about upgrading existing passenger tracks to HSR? Is that financially viable?

Most of 300 kph trains (TGVs, Shinkansen) run on standard gauge track of 1435 mm. Therefore there are limited choices with respect to trainsets for Broad gauge.
Here trains like Talgo offer a unique advantage of allowing 200-225 kph services on existing tracks. However at higher than 200 kph service, changes in signalling system and Train Protection and Warning System (TPWS) is required, but again this cost is still lower than having dedicated High Speed Tracks. So for a country like us, it is an exciting technology.

When you said "lay high speed dedicated passenger tracks", did you mean new tracks, or upgrading the existing ones?

Altogether new tracks. Existing tracks are shared by freight and passenger trains. As a result, average speed of trains in kept low. A separate track corridor for fast passenger trains was therefore considered. But apart from economics, one more problem was that such a track needs to pass through cities, where little or no land is available.
Dedicated freight lines on other hand, doesn't face such problem and can bypass congested areas, leading further reduction in cost.

 

[anant_s]

Some Quotes from Vision 2020 document.
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Speeding up of trains and capacity addition

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High Speed Trains

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Dedicated freight Corridors and future additions

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Targets

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Finally Investment

Point no. 6, an investment of 200,000 crores is envisaged for HSR. A lot of this amount would come in form of soft loans from assisting nations.

@Abingdonboy @ayesha.a @Ankit Kumar 002

 

[Ryuzaki]

@anant_s Suresh Prabhu has talked a lot of railway land monetisation,vertical growth and redevelopment of existing railway stations.Do you have any news on this?

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Plus anybody having doubts about how the haulage of goods will be done , look at No 10View media item 16884
9000 HP locomotives especially for WDFC coming soon.
And then 100+kmph of coal and container laden rakes will be a common sight.

 

[anant_s]

Suresh Prabhu has talked a lot of railway land monetisation,vertical growth and redevelopment of existing railway stations.

No single answer to the question, but what railways has planned is like this:

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Funding

For a lot of projects Public Private Partnership (PPP) route is being adopted, which should reduce strain on central budgetary support for Railways

How Modernization of existing fleet (Rolling stock is planned)

Notice point 6&7 on how both Electric and Diesel traction is going to be like for heavier freight trains including those on DFC (@Ankit Kumar 002 @Abingdonboy @Tridibans )

These are some highlights, full report can be read here
http://railwaymodernisation.gov.in/resources/Main_Report_Vol_I.pdf
http://railwaymodernisation.gov.in/
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Also in a positive news i read today, railways is leading in Capital Expenditure this year and it indicates things are moving in right direction as far as plans of government are concerned for using railways to improve economy.
Railways shows record high capital expenditure of Rs 94,000 crore in ’15-'16

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...94000-crore-in-15-16/articleshow/51917927.cms

 

[cloud_9]

Why? Why should Biharis have access to Railways when it is clearly unprofitable? They should pay for their tickets but they do not and they will not in the foreseeable future. So any kind of railway system in Bihar will not yield profits and will always be subsidized by the rest of India.

How do you decide the correct amount to spend on infra structure projects? Assuming direct profits alone is insufficient. The requirements and type of infra structure in Bihar is clearly different from the needs of Mumbai and Gujarat.

You feel 15 billion is too expensive for Mumbai but 5 or 10 billion ( or whatever the cost of railways in bihar) is fine. How do you come to that decision? Surely it can't be arbitrary ......just because 15 billion on one line seems too much? Maybe that 15 billion will give 20 billion returns on the economy for long term? A business in Mumabi adds manifold to the economy compared to a migrant worker in need of transport in. Bihar. A delay for him is less expensive. What about technology upgrades and there impact? Other intangibles? Have these calculations been done? I am asking that is all....

You wrote a flippin essay but probably failed to read the next line.

I get it,it's a race called "Let me make a fool of myself while trying to act smart".

Anymore participants ?

 

[Sky lord]

Politician are we?

I get it,it's a race called "Let me make a fool of myself while trying to act smart".

I doubt if anyone could beat you in that race. The field is all yours buddy.







....@sshole !!!

 

[AugenBlick]

Why? Why should Biharis have access to Railways when it is clearly unprofitable? They should pay for their tickets but they do not and they will not in the foreseeable future. So any kind of railway system in Bihar will not yield profits and will always be subsidized by the rest of India.

How do you decide the correct amount to spend on infra structure projects? Assuming direct profits alone is insufficient. The requirements and type of infra structure in Bihar is clearly different from the needs of Mumbai and Gujarat.

You feel 15 billion is too expensive for Mumbai but 5 or 10 billion ( or whatever the cost of railways in bihar) is fine. How do you come to that decision? Surely it can't be arbitrary ......just because 15 billion on one line seems too much? Maybe that 15 billion will give 20 billion returns on the economy for long term? A business in Mumabi adds manifold to the economy compared to a migrant worker in need of transport in. Bihar. A delay for him is less expensive. What about technology upgrades and there impact? Other intangibles? Have these calculations been done? I am asking that is all....

Nobody is talking about the tech gained that will have manyfold effects on our industrialization.

Example:
Bullet trains need rail segments of length 200m, with a deviation of less than 1mm(cross section). Tell me which Indian steel mill can manufacture that?

 

[AugenBlick]

LOL. Tata Steel, one of the worlds 5th largest steel manufacturer comes to mind.

So does Mittal Steel, THE largest steel manufacturer in the world comes to mind.

Jindal steel comes to mind.

You are just listing the steel companies. Steel is a pretty basic industry(but critical). Real knowledge is the metallurgy that is so damn expensive.
LOL I know tata steel in and out and they can't manufacture that. In India probably JSW because it stands for Japan Steel works. (which has a partnership with jindal).
India sucks in Material science and it is holding up many projects.
Being biggest / largest does not matter when it comes to metallurgical quality and production tolerances.

 

[AugenBlick]

LOL. Tata steel owns Corus which makes Steel rails for Europe.

Similarly Mittal steel makes Steel Rails for North American and in Spain.

Jindal makes it for Indian Rail.

So?
IR tracks are pathetic, that is why you feel that jerk at the point the rail changes. (dat dug dug sound)

Rest is again foreign tech that They will import (from their subsidiaries, but is foreign tech non the less) which has to be approved by OEM (Japan rail manufacturer) and be tested for not just for tolerance(which is the easier part), but stress bearing and fatigue creep which will eat into a lot of time and money hence EVEN IF they can manufacture the rails they cannot be used.
MY point stands : India does not have the tech and equipment to manufacture either in tolerance or metallurgy and the indian cos that do have not installed the capacity INSIDE our borders and TATA , once it sells CORUS will lose the IP

 

[AugenBlick]

More hype.

All rail way lines and steel is tested for stress bearing and fatigues creep. That is why they have to follow laid down standards and quality checks.

Why don't you be more specific and provide us with Hardness requirements in terms of HBW and Tensile strength MPa ?

Demonstrate to us that IR tracks are "pathetic" and of lower standard than that of global requirements.

If IR tracks are high quality and upto global standards , tell me why we need separate tracks for HSR?
They are good only for upto 160 max 200 kmph (after substantial changes in banking/radius and tighter tolerances while coupling the segments to reduce jerks.).

 

[AugenBlick]

For the simple reason that Indian Railways tracks are not designed and built for HSR.

Exactly. And India has done ZERO RnD in this direction. e.g. The engine pulling gatimaan is WAP5. which is already in use in IR.
When (or If) India does it's own RnD it will be discovered that the track metallurgy is, to put it mildly underwhelming. Here is a research paper describing how IR is striving to better the metallurgy and ultimately strength under load of the rails.
http://www.uic.org/cdrom/2008/11_wcrr2008/pdf/PS.1.8.pdf

 

[AugenBlick]

You do not need a fancy R&D to recognise that tracks designed for slower trains will not support HSR.

THAT is why we have tied up with Japan to provide us with their design expertise, standards, techniques and processes. But thanks for the link. I will look it up.

good. now you finally accept that India does not have the required tolerances and metallurgy for HSR (300 kmph) including signal systems.

 

[cloud_9]

Politician are we?




I doubt if anyone could beat you in that race. The field is all yours buddy.







....@sshole !!!

Thanks for letting us know that you are fcking twat and a moron.

 

[Abingdonboy]

HSR comments, Watch from 6:00 onwards:

Majority (of $15-16BN) will be funded through JICA with 0.1% interest rate over 50 years with nothing to pay back for the first 15 years. It's a pretty good deal and will create considerable employment and trickle down benefits for Make in India and the rest of IR with the ToT that will be delivered.

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