Britain will lose by criticizing China on Tibet issue

[CardSharp]

UK wont lose nothing we speak out against injustice like it or not, Its what makes our nation great that we are a true democratic country with a free media unlike China who bans even google.

This is rich. I hope some of you out there can appreciate the irony here. They seem to first get that the first country to invade Tibet after its separation from the Qing dynasty was by the English in 1904.

The British invaded Tibet in 1904 basically because they were bored. I’m serious. They owned everything on the planet worth having, so they were always having to invent new “menaces” to get funding for more invasions, grabbing the places they hadn’t considered worth taking in their earlier waves of conquest. So in the late 1800s they started talking up the Russian “threat” to swarm over the Himalayas and take away India. That was such utter crap that even the Brits talking up the threat must have had a laugh about it over their port, back at the officers’ club. The British knew Russia was in no position to threaten India. What they wanted was an easy conquest that would produce lots of medals, honors, stuff to wear on their chests in the London social season so they could snag an heiress and never have to work. So they invaded Tibet.

The guy who ran that invasion, Francis Younghusband, was quite a piece of work himself. One of those India-born Brits, who were generally fiercer and crazier even than the homegrown English. And he had that other feature that makes for a really ruthless conqueror: he was, like his biographers say, “deeply religious.” If you hear that about a guy who’s about to invade your country, go down to the basement, hoard lots of water and canned goods, and try to make yourself invisible for the next few years, because it’s not going to be pretty.

"Younghusband marched into Tibet in December 1903 with a force of Sikhs and Gurkhas—pretty scary mix, like rottweiler plus pit bull. And the Gurkhas were definitely the pit bulls in that pair. Sikhs are very tough but not blood-crazy. The Gurkhas were not only devoted lovers of knife-work, especially on POWs, but ancient enemies of the Tibetans. It didn’t take much to push them to a massacre. The Tibetans knew the British were dangerous and tried not to resist at all. But as the British force pushed farther and farther into Tibet, the local commanders decided to resist. That was a mistake. This wasn’t Tony Blair’s cool Britannia they were dealing with. On March 31, 1904, Younghusband encountered a Tibetan militia force of about 2000 guarding a pass near Gyantse. He must have had a hard time keeping a straight face or wiping the drool from his lips, thinking about the medals he’d get for this one, because the Tibetans were armed either with spears and swords or at best with matchlock muskets. That’s right: the kind of 17th-century firearm that won’t fire unless you apply the smouldering wick to the firing pan. Younghusband decided to play with the poor fuckers he was facing. He said, “My friends, my friends, what’s all this hostility? Why dees paranoia? Here, I’ll tell MY soldiers to take the bullets out of their rifles, and you tell YOUR soldiers to put out the flame of their matchlocks.” The Tibetans, who had no idea that Younghusband’s troops had modern repeating rifles, put out their matchlocks. Younghusband then ordered his troops to open fire. 1300 Tibetans were killed, with almost no British casualties."

 

[CardSharp]

What right does a nation that used to be a robber and thieve not too long ago according to Victor Hugo have to lecture a nation that it robbed before on its own affairs? Am I the only one who is having a Deja Vu here?

"'Two robbers breaking into a museum, devastating, looting and burning, leaving laughing hand-in-hand with their bags full of treasures; one of the robbers is called France and the other Britain." Victor Hugo

I knew if anyone here would see the irony of british outrage, It'd be you chauism. Just sorry you beat me to the post and with a better quote.

 

[amit27]

^^An inconvenient truth that is never acknowledge by the west or the Dalai Lama and his cronies.



Speak against injustice? Sorry but with all the torture and deaths of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, Britain cannot preach from the moral highground.

True democracy? - Are you sure because the party that came 3rd in the general election is now sharing power (as one news reporter said, "they have a lot of power but not a lot of votes").

And what about all those unelected advisers/aides who can directly influence policy.

Free Media? British media is mostly owned by a few tycoons who use it to push their own agenda.

Yes but in History in every conflict there has been war crimes name me one war there wasen't? people are humans they are liable to commit crime and heinous acts but at least in UK we have public enquiry and u found out about such 'torture and deaths' in the first place shows the system works.

I dont think u understand the concept of democracy, the British public by voting and not voting chose to elect a hung goverment it was their choice to make and the elections were free from rigging.

As for the Media part yes i agree Rupert Murdoch and his not UK only but global media empire can influence politics, people's opinions but thats business has been for hundreds of years doubt it will change overnight.

All i can say is we may not be perfect but if you compare Uk to China where foreign journalists can not freely operate, where there is hundreds of annuel executions and free speech is not permitted let alone simply using the internet as we do which system is better to you?

 

[CardSharp]

China did not ban Google, it was Google who wanted to leave. Now they want to stay in China's market.
Do you think how good is to play hardball with today's China?

Google stock price dropped 23% since it announced its withdrawal. And it's very disappointing Q2 performance is also related.

The Guxiang Information Technology Co. Ltd. based in Beijing operating the Google's China website has finally resolved its censorship dispute with Chinese authorities and agreed certain terms acceptable to both parties

The report also disclosed that Google company decided to submit to the censorship system of the Chinese authorities for its apprehensions of losing billions of profits that can be realized in the world's most populous country by agreeing to stop its automatic re-routing to its Hong Kong based site.

So much for its moral indignation at censorship and walking out of China. If they did really pullout of China because of censorship reason, why are they back now? Find some backbone Google, if you're going to walk out, do it for good.

 

[CardSharp]

All i can say is we may not be perfect but if you compare Uk to China where foreign journalists can not freely operate, where there is hundreds of annuel executions and free speech is not permitted let alone simply using the internet as we do which system is better to you?

Apples and oranges. China has only been a modern state for 50 odd years and Britain is arguably the first modern state. If you know your history, you'd realize that Britain went through its growing pains too. Would you care to count how many times the soldiers were called out to break up strikes during the industrial revolution? and that took 80 years. China industrialized at a much faster pace and had to suffer all the dislocation and social strife that results in a much shorter time frame.

Besides you pretend that the UK has always had free speech since time immemorial. Haven't you heard of DORA or EPA. Pretty sure you guys were in the censorship game long before China was.

 

[amit27]

Apples and oranges. China has only been a modern state for 50 odd years and Britain is arguably the first modern state. If you know your history, you'd realize that Britain went through its growing pains too. Would you care to count how many times the soldiers were called out to break up strikes during the industrial revolution? and that took 80 years. China industrialized at a much faster pace and had to suffer all the dislocation and social strife that results in a much shorter time frame.

Besides you pretend that the UK has always had free speech since time immemorial. Haven't you heard of DORA or EPA. Pretty sure you guys were in the censorship game long before China was.

Dont get me wrong what China had accomplished in the last 20 yrs has been nothing short of remarkable, but that dont mean UK wont speak up about Tibet issue, you know there is a big buddhist community in England and USA keeping the issue alive for one thing. Tibet has a soft spot in left wing politics even hollywood made some flicks on it.

China still has a long way to go in its human rights record and ensuring a true free media but these things will come in time im sure of it.

 

[yangtomous]

For a robber and invader then turn over act as a human rights guard .I can't forget the history,and also most Chinese can't.Hatred is not the purpose , many people also likes England nowaday .however the history is the best mirror for us.History can make you more conscious for u and me.
mutual-respect is the basic for a country diplomatic.
And somebody say the relationship between China and world.China need world and world need China also. you know one world one dream.for the economy we open our hearts welcome every benefit investments . arrogance is not our way ,I can ensure every Chinese leaders all emphasize that China is still a developing country ,still poor .you can check it in the news . we just ask leave China alone to deal its home things.is it a excessive ask?OK?just do you own business .

 

[amit27]

lol read my post one more time b4 commenting its not only UK who thinks China has a poor human rights record so does every western nation! why is it that even countries like Australia, Canada and Sweden slammed China over its Human rights record? did they invade China too like UK? your argument is weak to say the least.

 

[CardSharp]

Dont get me wrong what China had accomplished in the last 20 yrs has been nothing short of remarkable, but that dont mean UK wont speak up about Tibet issue, you know there is a big buddhist community in England and USA keeping the issue alive for one thing. Tibet has a soft spot in left wing politics even hollywood made some flicks on it.

China still has a long way to go in its human rights record and ensuring a true free media but these things will come in time im sure of it.

Ahhh there's the rub isn't it? Does the UK speaking out publicly about it help or hurt??

 

[amit27]

Many countries have spoken up about Tibet and China's Human rights record not only UK but also other european nations

Relations between China and Germany soured in 2007 after she met with Tibet’s exiled leader the Dalai Lama at the German Chancellery. China accuses the Dalai Lama of “inciting separatism” and rebukes world leaders meeting with the Tibetan leader.


Merkel with the Tibetan leader the Dalai Lama at the German Chancellery, September 23, 2007. (Pool photo by Markus Schreiber/ International Herald Tribune) While Merkel’s meeting with the Dalai Lama was welcomed by rights groups and Tibet supporters

Just cause we dont agree on something that does not mean it will spoil UK-China relations does it? trade is the most important thing for us at the moment as well as China and we should just concentrate on mutual benefits so both our nations and people prosper.

 

[AViet]

lol read my post one more time b4 commenting its not only UK who thinks China has a poor human rights record so does every western nation! why is it that even countries like Australia, Canada and Sweden slammed China over its Human rights record? did they invade China too like UK? your argument is weak to say the least.

Only western countries criticize China on human rights. Other countries, including most developing countries and highly developed countries like Japan, Korea and Singapore, do not. Basically western and east asian countries are very different on what are human rights. Western countries can praise India and sub-saharan Africa for their so-called democracy, while easily ignore their abject poverty, corrupt government, flawed legal systems and all other basic things to human lives, as if voting means everything to human. Most East Asian people, like Vienamese, do not appreciate uncontrolled freedom of the West, just read Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore about how he turned Singapore into one of the world most modern countries. In fact, that freedom is slowly killing the West civilization, as in the case of Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy.

 

[CardSharp]

@AViet

True but not everyone in west thinks this way for example Penn and Teller, Michael Parenti, that French senator. But they are the few people who asked questions and came up with their own opinions. They are definitely the slim minority, much more common are the Steven Seagals, Richard Geares, Sharon Stones and they command much more attention than sensible heads.

 

[CardSharp]

Just cause we dont agree on something that does not mean it will spoil UK-China relations does it? trade is the most important thing for us at the moment as well as China and we should just concentrate on mutual benefits so both our nations and people prosper.

You have to realize how hard it is for the chinese people to swallow these sanctimonious lectures. I've lived most of my life in the west, Germany, the US, Canada and I consider myself a proud Canadian citizen but I am still apoplectic and angered beyond words when I see these these condescending wags of the finger.

I suspect that Chinese government is run by cooler heads and will not hold grudges or stop mutually beneficial trade but whether the chinese people can be so unemotional I know not and these remarks will ultimately have an effect down the road.

 

[chauism]

lol read my post one more time b4 commenting its not only UK who thinks China has a poor human rights record so does every western nation! why is it that even countries like Australia, Canada and Sweden slammed China over its Human rights record? did they invade China too like UK? your argument is weak to say the least.

It is actually quite funny that you have to bring Australia and Canada into the picture, now let's drag US alone just for extra fun should we. As formal British colonies, may I ask how their aboriginal people doing compare with Tibetan right now? How are their cultures, religions and language preservations going in their own lands? Why is that they have to all speak English as their official language in their own lands? What about their independences of their homelands?

 

[chauism]

Many countries have spoken up about Tibet and China's Human rights record not only UK but also other european nations

Relations between China and Germany soured in 2007 after she met with Tibet’s exiled leader the Dalai Lama at the German Chancellery. China accuses the Dalai Lama of “inciting separatism” and rebukes world leaders meeting with the Tibetan leader.


Merkel with the Tibetan leader the Dalai Lama at the German Chancellery, September 23, 2007. (Pool photo by Markus Schreiber/ International Herald Tribune) While Merkel’s meeting with the Dalai Lama was welcomed by rights groups and Tibet supporters

Just cause we dont agree on something that does not mean it will spoil UK-China relations does it? trade is the most important thing for us at the moment as well as China and we should just concentrate on mutual benefits so both our nations and people prosper.

Only if you know what is really important to Chinese, and its government. And yes, it could spoil UK-China relationship. Just be honest with me here if I keep mentioning to you who your mother should sleep with, would you want to have anything to do with me at all? Back to UK, if China today make a stance for supporting independence of Northern Ireland and keep meeting with representative from IRA, what will it do to its relationship with UK. It is about mutual respect. If British understand all those, then back in the 80's during the talks of regarding the sovereignty of Hong Kong, Thatcher wouldn't have the fantasy that she could re-emphasize the validity of the three unfair treaties signed under duress during two opium wars, asserting the need for countries to respect treaties on universal terms. And later insisted on an exchange of sovereignty for administration and the implementation of a British administration post-handover. Those demands were even ridiculed by Henry Kissinger who Thatcher consulted on how to deal with the Chinese.