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Bringing Islam to knees in India my dream: Thackeray

I know that most members wouldnt like my comments but I am going to say it anyway.

In my opinion there is a basic inhuman or animal streak inherent in people in general but of the subcontinent in particular. It is like "Id" of the 'Frued' which is kept in check by the "Ego'. A slight excuse and man on the street turns into an inhuman animal. Let me cite actual occurrances in the subcontinent in my life time.

1. Partition.

No one can deny that what happened during the partition was horrifc. Both Muslims and Sikh in Punjab ( Can't about other regions) turned into animals and killed each other in millions. The event was summed up very nicely by the Sikh poetess Amrita Preetam in a Punjabi poem where she addresses Waris Shah.

I used to know many families in Karachi who were caught up in trains coming to Pakistan attacked by Sikhs. Similary, attacks on Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistani Punjab were equally shameful and I am sure there must be similar families on other side of the border who suffered a lot.

3. Anti Qadiani riots in Pakistani Punjab in 50's.

3. Anti muslim riots in India in Jabalpur in 1960.

4. Events in East Pakistan ( Bangla Desh) during early 1971. I saw a photo of Pakistani Depty Comissioner being be-headed by Mukti Bahini in the New York Times. ( I was on trip to US at that time)

5. Killing off nearly 10,000 Sikhs in Delhi in the aftermath of murder of Indra Gandhi. An englishman colleague of mine was in Delhi at the time and he actually cried when he described what he saw. All this just because Rajiv Gandhi said " I dont want to see Sardarjis in Delhi".

6. Riots following Babri mosque incident. ( My hats off to Lalu Parshad, Bihar was the only state where the disturbance was minimal.)

7.Gujrat riots after Godhra incident. Was there really a need to dig up the grave of the Urdu poet "Wali Dakhni" in Ahmedabad and fill it with asphalt among other things. ???

8. Targetting of Shia doctors by Laskar Jhangvi in 80's in Pakistan.

9. Sindhi - Mohajir riots in Karachi and hyderbad during Bhutto's regime.

10. Attack by Pathans on Biharis under the governership of Jehandad Khan in the mid 80's which resulted un the formation of MQM.

This has led me to conclude that civilization on the South Asians is only skin deep. A slight scratch and the animal within is awakened, which performs acts which cannot be otherewise explained.

Unfortunately, it is a fact that manjority always ends up on the winning side. Even though Indian muslims outnumber Pakistani muslims; being a minority; always end on the receiving end. Similarly, Shias number approx 30-million in Pakistan ( 15 - 20 %), being in the minority always end up losers.

What is worse is that even after 60 years, anti muslim speaches by the likes of Bal Thakery can still be effective vote getter.

In Pakistan virtually every protest march turns into a mob bent upon mindless destruction and an excuse to destroy public and private property for no rhyme or reason.

I am not saying that other nations are any better, but being a Pakistani and a South Asian, I am more concerned about this region. It is my hope and pray that first and foremost we become more tolerant human beings.

It seems that message of non voilence of Gandhi Jee and the teaching of our holy Prophet (PBUH) (Islam means peace) is lost on most of their followers.

Excellent post dude,

"Politics", "Ruling people", "Feeling of having power", "Money", "Jealousey" all are contributers to all these 10 big incidents you've mentioned here.

But how many people realize the weaknesses and even if they realize them, how many try to overcome then. Self asked question:rolleyes:
 
I know that most members wouldnt like my comments but I am going to say it anyway.

In my opinion there is a basic inhuman or animal streak inherent in people in general but of the subcontinent in particular. It is like "Id" of the 'Frued' which is kept in check by the "Ego'. A slight excuse and man on the street turns into an inhuman animal. Let me cite actual occurrances in the subcontinent in my life time.

1. Partition.

No one can deny that what happened during the partition was horrifc. Both Muslims and Sikh in Punjab ( Can't about other regions) turned into animals and killed each other in millions. The event was summed up very nicely by the Sikh poetess Amrita Preetam in a Punjabi poem where she addresses Waris Shah.

I used to know many families in Karachi who were caught up in trains coming to Pakistan attacked by Sikhs. Similary, attacks on Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistani Punjab were equally shameful and I am sure there must be similar families on other side of the border who suffered a lot.

3. Anti Qadiani riots in Pakistani Punjab in 50's.

3. Anti muslim riots in India in Jabalpur in 1960.

4. Events in East Pakistan ( Bangla Desh) during early 1971. I saw a photo of Pakistani Depty Comissioner being be-headed by Mukti Bahini in the New York Times. ( I was on trip to US at that time)

5. Killing off nearly 10,000 Sikhs in Delhi in the aftermath of murder of Indra Gandhi. An englishman colleague of mine was in Delhi at the time and he actually cried when he described what he saw. All this just because Rajiv Gandhi said " I dont want to see Sardarjis in Delhi".

6. Riots following Babri mosque incident. ( My hats off to Lalu Parshad, Bihar was the only state where the disturbance was minimal.)

7.Gujrat riots after Godhra incident. Was there really a need to dig up the grave of the Urdu poet "Wali Dakhni" in Ahmedabad and fill it with asphalt among other things. ???

8. Targetting of Shia doctors by Laskar Jhangvi in 80's in Pakistan.

9. Sindhi - Mohajir riots in Karachi and hyderbad during Bhutto's regime.

10. Attack by Pathans on Biharis under the governership of Jehandad Khan in the mid 80's which resulted un the formation of MQM.

This has led me to conclude that civilization on the South Asians is only skin deep. A slight scratch and the animal within is awakened, which performs acts which cannot be otherewise explained.

Unfortunately, it is a fact that manjority always ends up on the winning side. Even though Indian muslims outnumber Pakistani muslims; being a minority; always end on the receiving end. Similarly, Shias number approx 30-million in Pakistan ( 15 - 20 %), being in the minority always end up losers.

What is worse is that even after 60 years, anti muslim speaches by the likes of Bal Thakery can still be effective vote getter.

In Pakistan virtually every protest march turns into a mob bent upon mindless destruction and an excuse to destroy public and private property for no rhyme or reason.

I am not saying that other nations are any better, but being a Pakistani and a South Asian, I am more concerned about this region. It is my hope and pray that first and foremost we become more tolerant human beings.

It seems that message of non voilence of Gandhi Jee and the teaching of our holy Prophet (PBUH) (Islam means peace) is lost on most of their followers.


And i am still happy that joined this place cuz of a person like you
 
Just to get record straight. Nathoo Ram Godsey was a fully paid up member of RSS. Both LK Advani and Vajpai are also fully flegded members of RSS. BJP is a party ( simmilar to MMA) which is actually a result of all Hinduvta parties coming together. Component parts are RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena etc with some other anti Muslim parties such as Akali Dal supporting them in Punjab. As late as 1985, there were only a couple of members of this fascist party in the Indian parliament. It was only the Babri mosque incident and LK Advani Rath Yatra to Ayodhia that it became a major political force.
This speach appears to be on similar pattern.

BJP represents highly class Hindu voter ( Tilak, Trazu aur Talwar i,e, Brahman, Banya and Khatri) and is against low caste Hindus, Christian, Muslims and all minorities.
not only bjp, RSS have strong hold in indian civil and milatry establishment that,s why a fustration among minorities, low cost,s and ethnicaly non aryan increase day by day
 
not only bjp, RSS have strong hold in indian civil and milatry establishment that,s why a fustration among minorities, low cost,s and ethnicaly non aryan increase day by day

non-aryan!!!!!!
which pakistani or indian is aryan!!!!
do you know what aryan means, do you know about Hitler's classification on what Aryan characterstics are....Anybody over here have blue-eyes, white(not wheat) skin, and blonde hair...
 
non-aryan!!!!!!
which pakistani or indian is aryan!!!!
do you know what aryan means, do you know about Hitler's classification on what Aryan characterstics are....Anybody over here have blue-eyes, white(not wheat) skin, and blonde hair...
I never read this kind of stupid defination of aryan characterstics,you have little brain forgeting the history of ww2 most victoms of hitler had same characterstics , russian,polish are slavic race but have same characterstics as you define identity of aryan race, i think you need a tuttor of history, here is a link where you can find about aryanwww.light1998.com/the-bible-of-aryan-invasion/bibai3.html-45k
 
And i am still happy that joined this place cuz of a person like you

Excellent post dude,

"Politics", "Ruling people", "Feeling of having power", "Money", "Jealousey" all are contributers to all these 10 big incidents you've mentioned here.

But how many people realize the weaknesses and even if they realize them, how many try to overcome then. Self asked question

Many thanks to Adux and melb4aust. You appreciation means a lot to me.

I respect and read views of all members of this forum including those with whom I disagree such as Lull....

There was a need of a venue; where educated people could express their opinions without the fear of ridicule or censure and I offer my sincere thanks to the Moderators of this august forum for provinding such a platform.

Best regards to all
 
Many thanks to Adux and melb4aust. You appreciation means a lot to me.

I respect and read views of all members of this forum including those with whom I disagree such as Lull....

There was a need of a venue; where educated people could express their opinions without the fear of ridicule or censure and I offer my sincere thanks to the Moderators of this august forum for provinding such a platform.

Best regards to all

How did you know each other? :rolleyes:
 
Mix-breed doesnt Aryan, Pure Aryan's are supposed to be Russians, Go get some knowledge
 
Mix-breed doesnt Aryan, Pure Aryan's are supposed to be Russians, Go get some knowledge
hitler kill more then 2 milion russian in ww2, he hate russian ,historians never confirm that russian are aryans
 
Mix-breed doesnt Aryan, Pure Aryan's are supposed to be Russians, Go get some knowledge

:rofl: I think it's you who suppost to get some knowledge, Russians aren't Aryan's and neither were the Germans (I'm a History Minor student),. so far they have been able to determine that Aryan's traveled to India (Indus valley) and they mixed in blending their culture with local tradition,. thats all they are speculating right now but thats' not even proven, and the experts all say that Germans and Russians are no way near Aryans' blood.

PS. Don't go around claiming you people are Aryan decendants, lol. :lol: Or you'll just make a fool out of yourself.

Next time before telling someone get some knowledge you should get some yourself.
 
Mix-breed doesnt Aryan, Pure Aryan's are supposed to be Russians, Go get some knowledge

Dude I covered this in another post.....

Aryans and the idea of it, was hijacked by the Nazi's


The Aryan Invasion Myth
One of the most interesting puzzles in archaeology, and one that hasn't been completely solved yet, concerns the story of the supposed Aryan invasion of the Indian subcontinent. The story goes like this: The Aryans were a tribe of Indo-European-speaking, horse-riding nomads living in the arid steppes of Eurasia. Sometime around 1700 BC, the Aryans invaded the ancient urban civilizations of the Indus Valley, and destroyed that culture. The Indus Valley civilizations were far more civilized than any horse-back nomad, having had a written language, farming capabilities, and led a truly urban existence. Some 1,200 years after the supposed invasion, the descendants of the Aryans, so they say, wrote the classic Indian literature called the Vedic manuscripts.

Adolph Hitler and the Aryan/Dravidian Myth
Adolph Hitler twisted the theories of Gustaf Kossinna (1858-1931), to put forward the Aryans as a master race of Indo-Europeans, who were supposed to be Nordic in appearance and directly ancestral to the Germans.



These Nordic invaders were defined as directly opposite to native south Asian peoples, called Dravidians, who were supposed to have been darker-skinned.

The problem is, most if not all of this story--"Aryans" as a cultural group, invasion from the arid steppes, Nordic appearance, the Indus Civilization being destroyed, and, certainly not least, the Germans being descended from them--may not be true at all.
Aryans and the History of Archaeology
During the 19th century, many European missionaries and imperialists traveled the world seeking conquests and converts. One country which saw a great deal of this kind of exploration was India (including what is now Pakistan). Some of the missionaries were also antiquarians by avocation, and one such fellow was the French missionary Abbé Dubois (1770-1848). His manuscript on Indian culture makes some unusual reading today; the good Abbé tried to fit in what he understood of Noah and the Great Flood with what he was reading in the great literature of India. It was not a good fit, but he did describe Indian civilization at the time, and provided some pretty bad translations of the literature.

It was the Abbé's work, translated into English by the British East India Company in 1897 and with a laudatory preface by German archaeologist Max Muller, that formed the basis of the Aryan invasion story--not the Vedic manuscripts themselves. Scholars had long noted the similarities between Sanskrit, the ancient language in which the classical Vedic texts are written, and other Latin-based languages such as French and Italian. And when the first excavations at the large Indus Valley site of Mohenjo Daro were completed early in the 20th century, and it was recognized as a truly advanced civilization, a civilization not mentioned in the Vedic manuscripts, among some circles this was considered ample evidence that an invasion of people related to the peoples of Europe had occurred, destroying the earlier civilization and creating the second great civilization of India.
Flawed Arguments and Recent Investigations
It turns out that there are serious problems with this argument. There are no references to an invasion in the Vedic manuscripts; and the Sanskrit word "Aryas" means "noble", not a superior cultural group. Secondly, recent archaeological evidence suggests that the Indus civilization was shut down by droughts combined with a devasting flood, not a violent confrontation. Recent archaeological evidence also shows that many of the so-called "Indus River" valley peoples lived in the Sarasvati River, which is mentioned in the Vedic manuscripts as a homeland. There is no biological or archaeological evidence of a massive invasion of people of a different race.

The most recent studies concerning the Aryan/Dravidian myth include language studies, which have attempted to decipher and thereby discover the origins of the Indus script, and the Vedic manuscripts, to determine the origins of the Sanskrit in which it was written. Excavations at the site of Gola Dhoro in Gujarat suggest the site was abandoned quite suddenly, although why that may occurred is yet to be determined.
Racism and Science
Born from a colonial mentality, corrupted by a Nazi propaganda machine, the Aryan invasion theory is finally undergoing radical reassessment by south Asian archaeologists and their colleagues, using the Vedic documents themselves, additional linguistic studies, and physical evidence revealed through archaeological excavations. The Indus valley cultural history is an ancient and complex one. Only time will teach us what role if any an Indo-European invasion took in the history; but it seems clear that a collapse of the Indus civilization did not occur.
 
The usage of Aryan to mean "all Indo-Europeans" is now regarded by most scholars as "obsolete", though it is still seen occasionally and some people continue this usage.[4][5] In today's English, "Aryan", if used at all, is normally synonymous to Indo-Iranian, or Proto-Indo-Iranian.

Here is a post showing a Iranian piece with swastikas (A symbol that was hijacked by the Nazi's)

And the idea that Aryans were Russian was circulated in the 19th century......



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Swastika_iran.jpg
 
They called themselves the "noble ones" or the "superior ones." Their names are lost; their tribal names are lost. But when they found themselves conquerors, they gave themselves the name "superior" or "noble."

They were a tribal and nomadic peoples living in the far reaches of Euro-Asia in hostile steppe lands barely scratching out a living. They were unquestionably a tough people, and they were fierce and war-like. Their religion reflects it dominated as it is by a storm-god or sky-god that enjoins warfare and conquest. This god was called something like "Dyaus," a word related to "Zeus," "deus" (the Latin word for "god"), "deva" (the Sanskrit word for "god"), and, of course, the English word "divine." Their culture was oriented around warfare, and they were very good at it. They were superior on horseback and rushed into battle in chariots. They were a tribal people ruled over by a war-chief, or raja (the Latin word "rex" (king) comes from the same root word, along with the English "regal"). Somewhere in the early centuries of the second millenium BC, they began to migrate southwards in waves of steady conquest across the face of Persia and the lands of India.

There, they would take on the name "superior" or "noble" to distinguish themselves from the people they conquered. Their name is derived from the Indo-European root word, "ar," meaning "noble." In Sanskrit, they were the "Aryas" ("Aryans"); but that root, "ar," would also serve as the foundation of the name of the conquered Persian territories, "Iran." This concept of nobility, in fact, seems to lie at the heart of Indo-European consciousness, for it appears in another country's name, "Ireland," or "Eire." You can bet, however, that when a people go around calling themselves superior that it spells bad news for other people.

And there is no question that they were bad news for the southern Asians. They swept over Persia with lightening speed, and spread across the northern river plains of India. Their nature as a warlike, conquering people are still preserved in Vedic religion, the foundation of Hinduism. In the Rig Veda, the collection of praises to the gods, the god Indra towers over the poetry as a conquering god, one that smashes cities and slays enemies. The invading Aryans were originally nomadic peoples, not agricultural. They penetrated India from the north-west, settling first in the Indus valley. Unlike the Harappans, however, they eventually concentrated their populations along the Ganges floodplain. The Ganges, unlike the Indus, is far milder and more predictable in its flooding. It must have been a paradise to a people from the dry steppes of central Asia and Iran, a paradise full of water and forest. When they arrived, the vast northern plains were almost certainly densely forested. Where now bare fields stretch to the horizon, when the Aryans arrived lush forests stretched to those very same horizons. Clearing the forests over the centuries was an epic project and one that is still preserved in Indian literature.

The Aryans, or Vedic civilization were a new start in Indian culture. Harappa was more or less a dead end (at least as far as we know); the Aryans adopted almost nothing of Harappan culture. They built no cities, no states, no granaries, and used no writing. Instead they were a warlike people that organized themselves in individual tribal, kinship units, the jana. The jana was ruled over by a war-chief. These tribes spread quickly over northern India and the Deccan. In a process that we do not understand, the basic social unit of Aryan culture, the jana, slowly developed from an organization based on kinship to one based on geography. The jana became a janapada, or nation and the jana-rajya , or tribal kingdom, became the jana-rajyapada, or national kingdom. So powerfully ingrained into Indian culture is the jana-pada , that Indians still define themselves mainly by their territorial origins. All the major territories of modern India, with their separate cultures and separate languages, can be dated back to the early jana-padas of Vedic India.

The earliest history of the Aryans in India is called the Rigvedic Period (1700-1000 BC) after the religious praise poems that are the oldest pieces of literature in India. These poems, the Rig Veda, are believed to represent the most primitive layer of Indo-European religion and have many characteristics in common with Persian religion since the two peoples are closely related in time. In this early period, their population was restricted to the Punjab in the northern reaches of the Indus River and the Yamuna River near the Ganges. They maintained the Aryan tribal structure, with a raja ruling over the tribal group in tandem with a council. Each jana seems to have had a chief priest; the religion was focused almost entirely on a series of sacrifices to the gods. The Rigvedic peoples originally had only two social classes: nobles and commoners. Eventually, they added a third: Dasas , or "darks." These were, we presume, the darker-skinned people they had conquered. By the end of the Rigvedic period, social class had settled into four rigid castes: the caturvarnas, or "four colors." At the top of the caturvarnas were the priests, or Brahmans. Below the priests were the warriors or nobles (Kshatriya), the craftspeople and merchants (Vaishya), and the servants (Shudra), who made up the bulk of society. These economic classes were legitimated by an elaborate religious system and would be eventually subdivided into a huge number of economic sub-classes which we call "castes." Social class by the end of the Rigvedic period became completely inflexible; there was no such thing as social mobility.

In the early centuries of Later Vedic Period or Brahmanic Period (1000-500 BC), the Aryans migrated across the Doab, which is a large plain which separates the Yamuna River from the Ganges. It was a difficult project, for the Doab was thickly forested; the Aryans slowly burned and settled the Doab until they reached the Ganges. While the Rig Veda represents the most primitive religion of the Aryans during the Rigvedic Period, the religion of the Later Vedic period is dominated by the Brahmanas, or priestly book, which was composed sometime between 1000 and 850 BC. Later Vedic society is dominated by the Brahmans and every aspect of Aryan life comes under the control of priestly rituals and spells. In history as the Indians understand it, the Later Vedic Period is the Epic Age; the great literary, heroic epics of Indian culture, the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, though they were composed between 500 and 200 BC, were probably originally formulated and told in the Later Vedic Period. Both of these epics deal with heroes from this period and demonstrate how Aryan cultural values, as we can understand them from the Rig Veda , are being transformed by mixing with Indus cultures.

What did the Aryans do with their time? They seem to have had a well-developed musical culture, and song and dance dominated their society. They were not greatly invested in the visual arts, but their interest in lyric poetry was unmatched. They loved gambling. They did not, however, have much interest in writing even though they could have inherited a civilization and a writing system when they originally settled India. We do not know exactly when they became interested in writing, but it may have been at the end of the Brahmanic period somewhere between 650 and 500 BC. Still, there are no Aryan writings until the Mauryan period—from Harappa (2500-1750 BC) to Maurya (300 BC) is quite a long time. The script that the Mauryans used is called "Brahmi" script and was used to write not only the religious and literary language of the time, Sanskrit, but also the vernacular languages. This script, Brahmi, is the national alphabet of India.
Brahmi Script

The Vedic period, then, is a period of cultural mixing, not of conquest. Although the Aryans were a conquering people when they first spread into India, the culture of the Aryans would gradually mix with indigenous cultures, and the war-religion of the Aryans, still preserved in parts of the Rig Veda, slowly became more ritualized and more meditative. By 200 BC, this process of mixing and transforming was more or less complete and the culture we call "Indian" was fully formed.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ANCINDIA/ARYANS.HTM
 
There is no need to engage in personal attacks. Provide the information, discuss, and move on. Adux, please avoid the strong language as they result in further personal attacks.

Also there is no need to suggest others to get some knowledge. We all are here for that.

Thank you.
 
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