Breaking news ! ! FATAH and HAMAS agreed to form government of United Palestine

[mahatir]

You are implying I do not support a Palestinian state, which You know is wrong...

As for choices, PLO is corrupt, and Hamas has gone from disaster to disaster, while repressing people
with a different view, instead of asking for confirmation of their policies by holding elections.
On top of that, Hamas is isolated more than ever.
Given a choice, I doubt that many citizens of other countries would vote in Hamas.
A good choice is a party which focus on peace and the prosperity of the Palestinian people.

Isolation and siege is what forced hamas to reconcile with fateh

Sadly this is the truth

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Hazzy997
welcome back even if we dissagree on most things i got used to it and i feel like the PDF is boring without you

 

[Falcon29]

Hazzy997
welcome back even if we dissagree on most things i got used to it and i feel like the PDF is boring without you

Thank you my dear brother, and yeah I realize nobody posts in the ME section when I'm not here.

Inshallah our disagreements are turning into agreements over time.

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Thank you my dear brother, and yeah I realize nobody posts in the ME section when I'm not here.

Inshallah our disagreements are turning into agreements over time.

even if it does not as long as we disagree with respect no problem

 

[Falcon29]

Isolation and siege is what forced hamas to reconcile with fateh



Sadly this is the truth

Whether you believe that is the reason for reconciliation or not, offer something of contribution to this thread instead of bashing and derailing. About the tunnels, tunnels are still open since Egyptian generals run a limited number as a business. Nothing is black and white as you make it seem although we shouldn't get off topic. Quit emotionally ranting and let us discuss this with seriousness as we're getting more information over time as to how this will play out.

 

[mahatir]

The only good thing o

Whether you believe that is the reason for reconciliation or not, offer something of contribution to this thread instead of bashing and derailing. About the tunnels, tunnels are still open since Egyptian generals run a limited number as a business. Nothing is black and white as you make it seem although we shouldn't get off topic. Quit emotionally ranting and let us discuss this with seriousness as we're getting more information over time as to how this will play out.

Emotions is coming from your side , I am talking here with facts regional isolation and end destruction of tunnel network is what forced hamas to accept a reconciliation deal with fateh , they refused tons of times before as a result of support from Syria and Iran along with Egypt keeping a blind eye on tunnels , now both have gone thus no choice you have but to reconcile with fateh .

Things are running out of hand in Gaza , the goverment could no longer pay wages and keep services running , thus it had no choice but to go back to the table.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I never seen anything from you that indicates you support a Palestinian State on 1967 borders....



This I agree with, which is why the PLO has re-conciliated to give Abbas legitimacy as a President which he doesn't deserve. The PLO also concedes too much to Israeli demands which is why I want to see a new government formed without these stooges. Fatah in Gaza is different than Fatah in the West Bank however.



Little of it has to do with Hamas, it has to do with the international double standard and siege against Gaza. Remember Gaza relies heavily on imports for raw materials or else all business fails, this is what happened in 2006-2007. Of course that doesn't mean I agree with every single move Hamas has made, although I see they're headed towards a better direction. They never had a chance to prove their potential, so it's unfair to evaluate their governance in my opinion.



Not sure what you mean here, the Palestinian people are repressed due to Israeli policies.



Same thing critics were saying in 2008-2009.



This isn't about other countries...and it's the opposite, Hamas has a realistic view on the conflict and doesn't submit Israeli pressure which would lead to further de-legitimization of the Palestinian people and put their rights at risk. Which is why they're popular amongst Palestinians. People like you were saying the same thing in 2007.



You can't have peace and prosperity under an occupation, nobody said this about African nations or Middle Eastern nations under colonialist expansion, the onus was on the colonialists, and it's no different here.



Thanks my friend, I'm great, how is everything with you?

You know very well what I support.
Two states and Jerusalem as a separate entity run by UN.
For this to happen, both Israelis and Palestinians need new leadership.

Hamas knows quite well the three conditions they have to fulfil to be accepted by EU.
They choose not to fulfil them, and Palestinians in Gaza suffer for it.

Hamas is persecuting Palestinians in Gaza which does not share their view of the world.
In democracies, when people fails so miserable as Hamas has done, others will get a chance to try
out their ideas until something works.

Not possible when only the Hamas party line is acceptable.

 

[mahatir]

You know very well what I support.
Two states and Jerusalem as a separate entity run by UN.
For this to happen, both Israelis and Palestinians need new leadership.

Hamas knows quite well the three conditions they have to fulfil to be accepted by EU.
They choose not to fulfil them, and Palestinians in Gaza suffer for it.

Hamas is persecuting Palestinians in Gaza which does not share their view of the world.
In democracies, when people fails so miserable as Hamas has done, others will get a chance to try
out their ideas until something works.

Not possible when only the Hamas party line is acceptable.

you cant have a lasting peace without hamas or fateh , both have wide support within palestinian street.

Any peace agreement has to also involve the Islamist faction in palestine which is mainly represented by hamas .

 

[Falcon29]

You know very well what I support.
Two states and Jerusalem as a separate entity run by UN.

That's very broad, be more specific please on all central issues although I believe we shouldn't derail the thread, it seems like you're not happy with this recent reconciliation which is fine although you should probably keep it to yourself.

For this to happen, both Israelis and Palestinians need new leadership.

It's not an issue of leadership for the Palestinians as nothing is in their hands, it's an common issue of colonial imperialism and the onus is on the occupying power to make space for peace.

Hamas knows quite well the three conditions they have to fulfil to be accepted by EU.

What does 'accepted' by EU mean?

They choose not to fulfil them, and Palestinians in Gaza suffer for it.

Nope, Palestinians suffer from the EU mandate which unlawfully declared Palestinian land a Jewish 'homeland' and by their consistent support of Israeli policies. The Palestinians suffer from the Israeli occupation and no single Palestinian denies this, however, the citizens of the EU have done intense work to pressure their government to end support to Israeli settlements and and have helped tremendously in expanding the BDS movement.

Hamas is persecuting Palestinians in Gaza which does not share their view of the world.

Nope, Hamas's view is that the Palestinians deserve to stand up for their rights, no Palestinian disagrees with this.

In democracies, when people fails so miserable as Hamas has done, others will get a chance to try
out their ideas until something works.

Hamas hasn't governed for a single day, Gaza has been under a siege and naval blockade which utterly destroyed any chances of prosperity. In democracies the world recognizes the results, that wasn't the case for the Palestinian people and Israel is responsible for a crime against humanity, not Hamas. Which is why numerous human rights organizations such as Amnesty International, the UN, and B'tselem have condemned Israel for. Without US support for their immoral policies the world would have embraced the Palestinian people and that's the direction the world is heading towards.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Thanks my friend, I'm great, how is everything with you?

A lot of studying to do so a little stressing. But its going good.
I wont be as much active on the forum during the next 5-7 weeks.
That is if I maintain discipline which is a huge IF. lol

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

you cant have a lasting peace without hamas or fateh , both have wide support within palestinian street.

Any peace agreement has to also involve the Islamist faction in palestine which is mainly represented by hamas .

A Palestinian leader needs to negotiate a peace agreement with Israel, and this peace
agreement need to agreed by the Palestinian people through a referendum.
Any decision must be by a qualified majority, preferrably over 90%.
Must be large enough that any side opposing the deal will be ashamed.

I do not see Hamas beeing able to negotiate any peace, without a major shift in policy.

 

[mahatir]

A Palestinian leader needs to negotiate a peace agreement with Israel, and this peace
agreement need to agreed by the Palestinian people through a referendum.
Any decision must be by a qualified majority, preferrably over 90%.
Must be large enough that any side opposing the deal will be ashamed.

I do not see Hamas beeing able to negotiate any peace, without a major shift in policy.

If Hamas does not accept a peace agreement then they will have to bare consequences but at the same time Israel needs to be serious about ending this conflict .

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That's very broad, be more specific please on all central issues although I believe we shouldn't derail the thread, it seems like you're not happy with this recent reconciliation which is fine although you should probably keep it to yourself.



It's not an issue of leadership for the Palestinians as nothing is in their hands, it's an common issue of colonial imperialism and the onus is on the occupying power to make space for peace.



What does 'accepted' by EU mean?



Nope, Palestinians suffer from the EU mandate which unlawfully declared Palestinian land a Jewish 'homeland' and by their consistent support of Israeli policies. The Palestinians suffer from the Israeli occupation and no single Palestinian denies this, however, the citizens of the EU have done intense work to pressure their government to end support to Israeli settlements and and have helped tremendously in expanding the BDS movement.



Nope, Hamas's view is that the Palestinians deserve to stand up for their rights, no Palestinian disagrees with this.



Hamas hasn't governed for a single day, Gaza has been under a siege and naval blockade which utterly destroyed any chances of prosperity. In democracies the world recognizes the results, that wasn't the case for the Palestinian people and Israel is responsible for a crime against humanity, not Hamas. Which is why numerous human rights organizations such as Amnesty International, the UN, and B'tselem have condemned Israel for. Without US support for their immoral policies the world would have embraced the Palestinian people and that's the direction the world is heading towards.

My view of how a peace agreement should look like has been explained in detail in other threads. Go reread.

It can't be good for the Palestinians to be divided, and it is good that elections are planned.

You read this as I am not pleased with such unity. Think Again, unity is a precondition to peace.
Peace is not possible until all major groups of Palestinians agree on how such a peace should look like,
and any group disagreeing are prepared to accept that they are a minority, and drop the issue.
Then they need to negotiate and compromise with Israel.

If you are not aware of the three conditions Hamas has to fulfil, you are amazingly uneducated.
I believe you must be kidding. If not it is easy to google.

If Hamas does not feel it can govern Gaza, it should resign, and let others try.

The UN deemed the Israeli blockade legal in principle, when discussing the Ships to Gaza.
Its implementation was dubious in the beginning, since there must be a list of contraband, and this was lacking.
The blockade is obviously an act of war.
The fact that Palestinians could fire large number of rockets proves that it is not strict enough,
so arguments that it is too harsh can be debated.

Hamas firing missiles at civilian area was deemed to be a crime against humanity in the UN report after the Gaza war.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

If Hamas does not accept a peace agreement then they will have to bare consequences but at the same time Israel needs to be serious about ending this conflict .

The current Israeli government do not believe that Palestinians are serious about peace as a nation, so they only do the mechanical movements involved in discussing peace, to please Americans. Some right wingers also wants to keep the West Bank and reduce Palestinians to Bantustans.

It is going to take a long time yet.

 

[Falcon29]

My view of how a peace agreement should look like has been explained in detail in other threads. Go reread.

It can't be good for the Palestinians to be divided, and it is good that elections are planned.

You read this as I am not pleased with such unity. Think Again, unity is a precondition to peace.
Peace is not possible until all major groups of Palestinians agree on how such a peace should look like,
and any group disagreeing are prepared to accept that they are a minority, and drop the issue.
Then they need to negotiate and compromise with Israel.

If you are not aware of the three conditions Hamas has to fulfil, you are amazingly uneducated.
I believe you must be kidding. If not it is easy to google.

If Hamas does not feel it can govern Gaza, it should resign, and let others try.

The UN deemed the Israeli blockade legal in principle, when discussing the Ships to Gaza.
Its implementation was dubious in the beginning, since there must be a list of contraband, and this was lacking.
The blockade is obviously an act of war.
The fact that Palestinians could fire large number of rockets proves that it is not strict enough,
so arguments that it is too harsh can be debated.

Hamas firing missiles at civilian area was deemed to be a crime against humanity in the UN report after the Gaza war.

I know what you're speaking of and could care less about EU imposing their will on the other half of the world, I believe it's up to the people of the Middle East to decide their fate.

You fail to realize only the naval blockade was declared legal by the Palmer report however many UN experts greatly disagreed. That being said, the major siege is the one on the land crossings and that hasn't been legalized at all. I agree it is an act of war and if firing rockets at Israeli military bases and settlements is the only way to protect your people from massive Israeli aggression then so be it. Palestinians aren't going to sit around and watch their blood being shed during Israeli offensives, when there isn't Israeli aggression there isn't Palestinian retaliation. Therefore it's about defending the Palestinian people in Gaza even though you may disagree with it.

However, that has nothing to do with the topic and not sure why you keep deflecting the subject and derailing it, let's focus on the events following this development.