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Breaking China's DF-21D missile kill chain: US expert

do as you may but having experience in any force as claimed does not mean he is infallible! Which part of mine is insulting him and they are not making a point!?

it may be you who has the desire to learn from him. up to now some his comments are cut and paste and bragging drivels

He is insulting my comments too!
Counterinsulting a comment is distinctly different from name calling and personal insults which you have resorted to. This is the reason for the report. You are allowed to counter argue as much as you like and a bit of heat in the argument can add some spice to the discussion. But personal insults are not allowed and should be discouraged in the strongest possible manner. As to learning or not that remains your choice. ut even my 14 yr old son knows things that I do not and I have no qualms in learning from him.I hope you get my point but personal insults will always discourage people from posting information and their experiences. That is harmful for any forum and this is what I am duscouraging you from doing.
Araz
 
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We research, test and make our weapons strictly according to the law of physics. Chinese Physicists are one of the best in the world
Am sure they are. But they subscribe to real physics, not 'Chinese physics' like the Chinese members here.

OTH radars wont affect our devices
Perfect example of 'Chinese physics'.

an aircraft carrier is over 300 meters in length, 50~100 meters across deck. have a brain to calculate how much is 1 meter to the said measurements
You have clearly demonstrated this subject is well beyond your intellect.

From the time the missile is launched to the time it reached apogee, the ship WILL BE several kilometers from its previous location. From the time the warhead separated from the missile and begin its descent, the ship will have moved some more. So my point is that even if the warhead arrived fast enough, if it missed the ship by just one meter, the ship won.

'Chinese physics' indeed...
 
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Gambit.
I question from a novice,would it really matter if a nuke warhead landed 10m away from a carrier.Would the explosion not be enough to blow everything in sight.
That is why I always condition my argument with the attack being non-nuclear. A nuclear detonation will destroy the ship whether the detonation is at surface level or overhead.

Secondly in your opinion where are the chinese with regards to development of these missiles and what countermeasuees is the USN Thinking of adding on to its ships.
Araz
There are existing countermeasures.

Most would argue a direct assault on the descending warhead, such as a kinetic interceptor like the SM-3.

But how about seduction/distraction countermeasures?

Most thinks that electronic warfare (EW) is about 'jamming', which involves just blasting the EM spectrum with overwhelming EM noise, but seduction/distraction countermeasures are vital components that are applicable to many situations, either as standalone or in combination with other methods.

Chaff dispense is a seduction/distraction countermeasures.

Say that this DF-21D warhead is equipped with terminal radar guidance and limited maneuverability for course correction once its radar is active in descent.

If the system is sophisticated enough, it could acquire the ship, mark its radar signature and location, project a heading, and steer itself towards a point of collision based upon that projection. Chaff dispense alone may cover the ship, or it may not. Chaff eventually descend to ground and in doing so, gradually loses its effectiveness. So even if the chaff bloom is larger than the ship's RCS, since the attacking radar is sophisticated enough, it will not be 'seduced' by the larger EM signature. Even worse if there are local winds that may dissipate the chaff bloom in unwanted direction. So chaff alone is not always the best option even though it may initially cover several square kilometers -- electronically speaking.

On the other hand, say the ship detect the descending warhead before the warhead activate its radar, which it cannot do until it is no longer in the plasma cloud created by orbital descent, the ship can transmit the usual 'jamming' white noise to cover the entire radar view of any radar from any direction, then a second or two later, dispense several chaff blooms, then finally turn off the white noise 'jamming' signals. Now the warhead's radar is presented with several chaff blooms that may or may not be distinguishable from each other, and because of the previous white noise 'jamming', it never acquire the ship's radar signature to start.

Over-the-horizon (OTH) radar? The system have very poor target resolution, such as heading and location, even for slow moving ships. The system is not very mobile because the antenna/array is very large, such as tens or hundreds of meters or even kilometers in dimensions.

Over-the-horizon radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The resolution of any radar depends on the width of the beam and the range to the target. For example a radar with a 1/2 degree beamwidth and a target at 120 km (75 mi) range will show the target as 1 km (0.62 mi) wide. Because of the long ranges at which OTH radars are used, the resolution is typically measured in tens of kilometres. This makes the backscatter system almost useless for target engagement, although this sort of accuracy is more than adequate for the early warning role. In order to achieve a beamwidth of 1/2 degree at HF, an antenna array several kilometres long is required.
So how about a few bombs delivered by a couple of B-2s to completely disrupt the array's physical layout? The highlighted example of 1/2 degree is just to demonstrate what is necessary physically for antenna/array dimensions. That beamwidth is too small to perform volume search on the vast ocean. So a beamwidth of 3-5 deg is more practical. If a beamwidth of 1/2 deg will show the aircraft carrier as 1 km wide, what will a 3-5 deg beamwidth will show the ship? How about several km wide?

Imagine a ship several kilometers wide...:lol:

So even if the antenna/array is less than kilometers in dimensions, it is still a fixed structure and therefore a viable target for US B-2s or even low flying B-1s to take out, effectively blinding the DF-21D system.

All of this have been discussed before. But just like loony 9/11 conspiracy theories, given enough time, the DF-21D will be brought up again as if it is something shockingly new.
 
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do as you may but having experience in any force as claimed does not mean he is infallible! Which part of mine is insulting him and they are not making a point!?

it may be you who has the desire to learn from him. up to now some his comments are cut and paste and bragging drivels

He is insulting my comments too!
The highlighted is why you continues to look the fool.

If I claimed or even if anyone perceived me to be 'infallible', I would not continually provide sources and suggest keyword searches for people to verify my arguments. You cannot deny that is my modus operandi. If anything, I excelled over ALL of the Chinese members here in doing so. And I cannot do so unless I have relevant experience to give readers those keyword searches so they can verify my arguments. Unlike the Chinese members here, I do not insult the intelligence of the readers. I do not use phrases like 'Trust me' and simply move on. And this is why I am perceived as more credible than all of the Chinese members here.
 
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Why do the trolls here constantly assume the DF-21D will be used alone, unaided and unassisted by anything else?

Is the DF-21D unable to rely on targeting information from an off-board sensor like a stealthy UAV that is stalking the carrier from a safe distance?

vzsz5rv.jpg


Chengdu+Aviation+Industry+Corporation+of+China+(AVIC)++plaaf+naval+airforce+%5BCAIC%5D++Xianglong+high+altitude,+high+endurance,+long-range+Unmanned+Aerial+Vehicle+(HALE+UAV)+Tianchi+UAV+(Chinese+Global+Hawk+(6).jpg


Or how about using the DF-21D as a component of a massive strike package consisting of J-20s, J-31s, and other support aircraft?

So how about a few bombs delivered by a couple of B-2s to completely disrupt the array's physical layout?

If you're going to hit the Chinese mainland directly with B-2s, I hope you don't mind if China responds in kind.

http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/attack-aircraft-ii.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2013/03/new-chinese-bomber-a-flying-wi.html
 
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Why do the trolls here constantly assume the DF-21D will be used alone, unaided and unassisted by anything else?

Is the DF-21D unable to rely on targeting information from an off-board sensor like a stealthy UAV that is stalking the carrier from a safe distance?
Why do fools continues to assume that we do not know how to detect 'stealth' when we are the first to deploy them?

Or how about using the DF-21D as a component of a massive strike package consisting of J-20s, J-31s, and other support aircraft?
Are the J-20 and J-31 deployed?

If you're going to hit the Chinese mainland directly with B-2s, I hope you don't mind if China responds in kind.
In your comic book dreams.
 
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Why do fools continues to assume that we do not know how to detect 'stealth' when we are the first to deploy them?

Destroying the UAV doesn't change the fact that your location has already been revealed.:lol:

Are the J-20 and J-31 deployed?

Is the J-10 and J-11 not able to provide targeting information for the DF-21D? :lol:

In your comic book dreams.

The J-20 and J-31 were both comic book dreams until late 2010. :lol:

Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft II

New Chinese bomber a flying wing? - The DEW Line
 
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Counterinsulting a comment is distinctly different from name calling and personal insults which you have resorted to. This is the reason for the report. You are allowed to counter argue as much as you like and a bit of heat in the argument can add some spice to the discussion. But personal insults are not allowed and should be discouraged in the strongest possible manner. As to learning or not that remains your choice. ut even my 14 yr old son knows things that I do not and I have no qualms in learning from him.I hope you get my point but personal insults will always discourage people from posting information and their experiences. That is harmful for any forum and this is what I am duscouraging you from doing.
Araz

you make no sense in commenting and from now on you are ignored!
 
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Am sure they are. But they subscribe to real physics, not 'Chinese physics' like the Chinese members here.

Show me from academic journals, or comments from the scholars institutions of higher learning any where that what Chinese physicists' publications or their quality of works are criticised as non-physics. If you cannot do that you better shut your foul mouth up!


Perfect example of 'Chinese physics'.

ditto


You have clearly demonstrated this subject is well beyond your intellect.

way beyond yours

From the time the missile is launched to the time it reached apogee, the ship WILL BE several kilometers from its previous location. From the time the warhead separated from the missile and begin its descent, the ship will have moved some more. So my point is that even if the warhead arrived fast enough, if it missed the ship by just one meter, the ship won.

the missile is flying at a speed of mach 7; and it is guided by satellites and radars. the ship moves at a speed of 20~30 knots per hour. And when the war is engaged, you are a dead sitting duck moving slower than a snail waiting there to be hit from not just one but multiple DF-21Ds and YJ-xxx @ mach 6 or faster from all sides. Your ships will have the last function of forming rusty coral reefs at the bottom of the SCS.

'Chinese physics' indeed...

another ignorant drivel as usual
 
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Show me from academic journals, or comments from the scholars institutions of higher learning any where that what Chinese physicists' publications or their quality of works there are criticised as non-physics. If you cannot do that you better shut your foul mouth up!
You need to slow down. I have respect for these real scientists and engineers. I said they are believers (subscribe) to real physics, whereas all of the Chinese members here believe in 'Chinese physics'. Get it? :lol:

the missile is flying at a speed of mach 7; and it is guided by satellites and radars. the ship moves at a speed of 20~30 knots per hour. And when the war is engaged, you are a dead sitting duck moving slower than a snail waiting there to be hit from not just one but multiple DF-21Ds and YJ-xxx @ mach 6 or faster from all sides. Your ships will have the last function of forming rusty coral reefs at the bottom of the SCS.
What a fool...!!!

The longer the distance, the longer the flight time. Plus, you cannot even explain how the warhead, not missile, is supposed to maneuver. Go back to that intellectually dead playground you call a 'forum' and yank each other off.

What an amazing argument. Everything is dead just because you say so.:lol:
Not because I say so, but because the US military have ten times the combat experience the PLA have.
 
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The highlighted is why you continues to look the fool.

If I claimed or even if anyone perceived me to be 'infallible', I would not continually provide sources and suggest keyword searches for people to verify my arguments. You cannot deny that is my modus operandi. If anything, I excelled over ALL of the Chinese members here in doing so. And I cannot do so unless I have relevant experience to give readers those keyword searches so they can verify my arguments. Unlike the Chinese members here, I do not insult the intelligence of the readers. I do not use phrases like 'Trust me' and simply move on. And this is why I am perceived as more credible than all of the Chinese members here.

Many times, the only rebuttal is you call "Chinese Physics" is non physics. This is your trademark indicating your cranial cavity is vacuumed by your ignorance!
 
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Many times, the only rebuttal is you call "Chinese Physics" is non physics. This is your trademark indicating your cranial cavity is vacuumed by your ignorance!
And THAT is what the Chinese members here believe...

See here...What is 'Chinese physics' is not what real Chinese scientists and engineers believe.

What is 'Chinese physics' is what the Chinese members of PDF made up and believe...:lol:
 
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You need to slow down. I have respect for these real scientists and engineers. I said they are believers (subscribe) to real physics, whereas all of the Chinese members here believe in 'Chinese physics'. Get it? :lol:

what a chicken. now you are scared and change your tone when Chinese Physicists are some of the best in world


What a fool...!!!

The longer the distance, the longer the flight time. Plus, you cannot even explain how the warhead, not missile, is supposed to maneuver. Go back to that intellectually dead playground you call a 'forum' and yank each other off.

the distance is soved by the speed of the travel of the missile fool! if you said it is a home-made rocket by gambit then you theory is a perfect fit into your argument. The only thing you can claim is the missile cannot travel at Mach 6 or 7. and again as I said when we engage in war, we just shoot one arrow against your snail-like moving ship? Have a brain and learn to think!

Not because I say so, but because the US military have ten times the combat experience the PLA have.

Let us have the real combat then you talk!

And THAT is what the Chinese members here believe...

See here...What is 'Chinese physics' is not what real Chinese scientists and engineers believe.

What is 'Chinese physics' is what the Chinese members of PDF made up and believe...:lol:

you are chickening out of all your previous drivels!
 
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