Book Review : The Indian Doctrine

[BanglaBhoot]

Bangladesh will not compromise its interests in favour of India. India cannot be a regional power unless all other countries are prepared to accept it as such. It is in India's interest to be more respectful of its neighbours. What India needs least is to enrage Bangladesh. India's position is not so secure as some Indian writers would have us presume. Unless India is prepared to drop its hegemonic and arrogant attitude it will be in constant trouble with its neighbours and it will be in the biggest mess of its own making.

 

[Adux]

Maybe India can afford to "Mess" with small fry's like Bangladesh, who have next to nil Regional or World political mileage, So here you go I am hegemonic

 

[blain2]

Maybe India can afford to "Mess" with small fry's like Bangladesh, who have next to nil Regional or World political mileage, So here you go I am hegemonic

India acting like a hegemon and succeeding in it are two different things. While India can try to act like one, there are plenty of counter balances that do not allow it to succeed. Many factors included but to jott down a few, here goes the list:

a) Chinese influence - Balance of power is slightly bi-polar for countries such as BD, SL, Nepal etc. Pakistan is not and will not be under the Indian sphere of influence.

b) BD and SL's refusal to cow down to Indian diktats. Both countries are surprisingly assertive in the face of the Indian pressure which is a very good thing for the region.

c) Pakistani relations with countries such as SL, BD ensure that they are not fully under the Indian sphere of influence. Chinese assistance is a constant reminder to these countries that there is a massive counter to Indian pressure.

So while you may consider BD inconsequential, in reality its not. It can cause major problems for India's stability. This goes for all of the countries surrounding India.


I fully agree with Munshi that until and unless India treats its neighbors with respect and earns the respect (by not insisting on petty issues), then it can earn a lot of goodwill...otherwise the smaller side always remembers each and every wrong and this hardens the resolve of the smaller country. Gone are the days of threatening with the military muscle especially as that would speed up these countries embrace of the Chinese.

 

[Adux]

A ver y wrong assumption, Aiding Pakistan is one thing, Aiding bangladesh,
Bangaldesh is inconsequtenial entity, there is no need of any goodwill, According to MR.Munshi itself RAW has pentrated every department of bangladesh therefore they will/already listen to India, Sri Lanka, Bhutan and nepal lets not even get there. Chinese cant do much. It is a true fact

 

[blain2]

A ver y wrong assumption, Aiding Pakistan is one thing, Aiding bangladesh,
Bangaldesh is inconsequtenial entity, there is no need of any goodwill, According to MR.Munshi itself RAW has pentrated every department of bangladesh therefore they will/already listen to India, Sri Lanka, Bhutan and nepal lets not even get there. Chinese cant do much. It is a true fact

Adux, you seem to be off the mark.

Let me jog your memory about how limited the Indian say is in these countries.

There has been a massive insurgency going on which India accuses BD of abetting all the time....this is the longest running insurgency in India and for RAW to have penetrated every dept in BD and still not able to get complete cooperation from them is either total incompetence on the part of your mighty RAW or your politicians not knowing their heads from their asses.

Secondly, Indians have been voicing increasing concern about the way SL is handling its war against the Tamils with Pakistani support. Pakistan always had dealings with SL but there has been a qualitative change in these security relations at least...much to India's casternation.

Afghanistan is another place in contention. Indian influence over there goes away with Karzai's NA dominated govt.

Bhutal and Nepal really don't count for much and are too far removed from the center of gravity of South Asia. Burma is another Chinese extention. So all in all, I do not see everyone simply laying down in front of India demands...I see more independence being asserted by these smaller countries and this trend will continue.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

You should not underestimate Bangladesh. You did that in cricket and we gave you a surprise. Pushing us too hard you might get a bigger and nastier surprise. I am not sure what India is so pleased about as it has half the world poor who live under the poverty line. That is almost double the entire population of Bangladesh. I already see the poor of India hitting back it just takes an annoyed Bangladesh to make things worse for you. Better to stop your provocations and behave like a decent country instead of a troublemaker.

 

[Adux]

ya, it is half, But your whole population is under poverty, so it really does matter. Bangladesh and giving us a nasty suprise, yup you wish. You aint Pakistan nor China. Bangladesh Cant do anything, be happy for whatever we have done for you. Just say Thank you and Walk away.

 

[blain2]

But your whole population is under poverty, so it really does matter. Bangladesh and giving us a nasty suprise, yup you wish.

I think you guys are getting a bit ahead of yourselves with this new found arrogance. Last I checked, India has more impoverished people than Pakistan, BD and SL combined. So hopefully you will remember the adage "those who live in the glass houses should not throw stones."

 

[Bushroda]

I think you guys are getting a bit ahead of yourselves with this new found arrogance. Last I checked, India has more impoverished people than Pakistan, BD and SL combined. So hopefully you will remember the adage "those who live in the glass houses should not throw stones."

India also has population more than Pakistan, BD & SL combined. So, pointing finger at each other is in all context stupidity.

 

[con]

I think you guys are getting a bit ahead of yourselves with this new found arrogance. Last I checked, India has more impoverished people than Pakistan, BD and SL combined. So hopefully you will remember the adage "those who live in the glass houses should not throw stones."

Mate India has more educated people than the the whole of US and UK put together,more Billionaires than any other country in Asia etc etc..The unnecessary comparison can go on...

There is a difference between saying sensible and making claims by living in delusion just because u hate India,which Mr Munshi adequately displayed. The Pakistanis on this board are more sensible when posting anti-India articles than the "self declared Indian Expert". At-least they do some kind of homework before making claims.

But our Munshiji is only hot air claims. He wants everyone to take his claims at face value. If something contary is presented, he can deny it and the denial should also be taken at face,even if the reason is as weird as "Chanakya Doctrine"!

 

[Contrarian]

Adux, you seem to be off the mark.

Let me jog your memory about how limited the Indian say is in these countries.

There has been a massive insurgency going on which India accuses BD of abetting all the time....this is the longest running insurgency in India and for RAW to have penetrated every dept in BD and still not able to get complete cooperation from them is either total incompetence on the part of your mighty RAW or your politicians not knowing their heads from their asses.

BD can cause problems for India by aiding insurgency, apart from that, there is not much they can do. However our relations with BD are improving, the caretaker govt has accepted that BD has had terrorists operating from her soil and has vowed to remove them and help India.

Secondly, Indians have been voicing increasing concern about the way SL is handling its war against the Tamils with Pakistani support. Pakistan always had dealings with SL but there has been a qualitative change in these security relations at least...much to India's casternation.

Blain, SL is our domain, whether you believe Pakistan has had a change in its relationship or not. SL has asked us constantly to intervene. India cannot intervene and help out the SL govt because of domestic compulsions, we are more than glad to see Pakistan doing the job for us.

In the end SL does as India asks her to do. You must realise, SL as a country has always supported us, after the debacle of IPKF, both LTTE and SL govt have asked India to come back into the regions politics.

Afghanistan is another place in contention. Indian influence over there goes away with Karzai's NA dominated govt.

But the karzai govt is not going away soon, neither is the US.

Bhutal and Nepal really don't count for much and are too far removed from the center of gravity of South Asia.

cool

Burma is another Chinese extention. So all in all, I do not see everyone simply laying down in front of India demands...I see more independence being asserted by these smaller countries and this trend will continue.

You should know inspite of the chinese influence in mayanmar, India commands a LOT, and i mean a LOT of influence in Myanmar. India is donating arms, money, etc, etc our army chief, president, etc have all gone there. Myanmar comes directly in the Indian camp. Chinese were there before us. At that time, we did not have any relations with them because of the coup, etc, then India realised myanmar's importance and hell we have given them so much and myanmar has responded beautifully. They even launched military operations againsts anti India rebels in their border areas. China is out from there, India is in.

Further there are many countries like Maldives etc if you want to talk about them.

 

[blain2]

Mate India has more educated people than the the whole of US and UK put together,more Billionaires than any other country in Asia etc etc..The unnecessary comparison can go on...

There is a difference between saying sensible and making claims by living in delusion just because u hate India,which Mr Munshi adequately displayed. The Pakistanis on this board are more sensible when posting anti-India articles than the "self declared Indian Expert". At-least they do some kind of homework before making claims.

But our Munshiji is only hot air claims. He wants everyone to take his claims at face value. If something contary is presented, he can deny it and the denial should also be taken at face,even if the reason is as weird as "Chanakya Doctrine"!

Writing your name or signing your name does not exactly qualify as "educated" in the real world. A significant population of the educated in India fall in this class. So lets not kid ourselves here about having more educated than US/UK in the real sense of the word "educated".

Having more billionaires than any other country in Asia does not negate the fact that aside from Africa, India also has the highest number of people living in abject poverty and you are right unneccessary comparisons can go on and on...

The issue that I agreed with Munshi on was something that has been written on by authors in all of the countries like BD, SL and Pakistan. Nobody is ready to toe the Indian line and certainly don't like to be pushed around by an arrogant India (in the past it was the "big" India, now its the "big, arrogant" India). The interesting thing about this whole discussion is that this arrogance shows through the comments of the Indian contributers here...so I am not sure why you guys act so surprised when somebody from BD calls you guys arrogant or bullies.

 

[Contrarian]

Mate, India also charms the countries it wants to.
Myanmar, Madagascar, Maldives, Afghanistan, etc, etc.

If Indo-BD relations get good, you would see India lavishing things in BD as well

 

[blain2]

BD can cause problems for India by aiding insurgency, apart from that, there is not much they can do. However our relations with BD are improving, the caretaker govt has accepted that BD has had terrorists operating from her soil and has vowed to remove them and help India.


Blain, SL is our domain, whether you believe Pakistan has had a change in its relationship or not. SL has asked us constantly to intervene. India cannot intervene and help out the SL govt because of domestic compulsions, we are more than glad to see Pakistan doing the job for us.

In the end SL does as India asks her to do. You must realise, SL as a country has always supported us, after the debacle of IPKF, both LTTE and SL govt have asked India to come back into the regions politics.


But the karzai govt is not going away soon, neither is the US.


cool


You should know inspite of the chinese influence in mayanmar, India commands a LOT, and i mean a LOT of influence in Myanmar. India is donating arms, money, etc, etc our army chief, president, etc have all gone there. Myanmar comes directly in the Indian camp. Chinese were there before us. At that time, we did not have any relations with them because of the coup, etc, then India realised myanmar's importance and hell we have given them so much and myanmar has responded beautifully. They even launched military operations againsts anti India rebels in their border areas. China is out from there, India is in.

Further there are many countries like Maldives etc if you want to talk about them.

Malay, I suggest you should go back and do a bit more reading and catch-up with the current geo-political situation in South Asia. May want to see the level of contacts that China and then Pakistan have with the Military Junta and you will see that Burma is in a totally different class than lets say Nepal for India.

I do not want to debate point to point on these issues with you simply because its hard to convince you of the fact that SL, BD, Pakistan, Burma do not like anyone's intereference in their affairs and if unhappy can stir considerable trouble for India's own stability.

 

[blain2]

Mate, India also charms the countries it wants to.
Myanmar, Madagascar, Maldives, Afghanistan, etc, etc.

If Indo-BD relations get good, you would see India lavishing things in BD as well

India giving to these countries does not mean that they only receive from India...China gives to Myanmar much more than India..charming is something that all countries do but financially giving a grant and some aid is not the same thing as resolving territorial issues with such countries...(this is the reason that every other year, there is a major firefight on the Indo-BD border).

I am not saying that India does not try to gain support in these countries, what I am suggesting is that due to the internal dynamics of each of these countries, they can not and will not be subservient to India's whims and desires (I speak specifically about BD and SL...others are sort of tucked away).