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Boeing offers joint prod of F-18 fighters in India.

Lilo

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Boeing offers joint prod of F-18 fighters in India

IANS[ FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 02, 2007 10:40:37 AM]

NEW DELHI: The race for an Indian Air Force (IAF) order for 126 combat jets just got hotter, with US aerospace major Boeing offering to jointly produce the frontline F-18 Super Hornet in India if it wins the contract.
"In the F-18, we have arguably the most advanced fighter in the world. If we win the contract, we offer the opportunity of entering into a joint production arrangement with an Indian defence contractor," Said Chris Chadwik, Boeing Vice President and General Manager, Global Strike Systems.


"Clearly, there is very strong competition but we believe we are positioned very strongly," he added.

Should the deal come through, India will be the first country outside the US where the F-18 is produced. It will also be the first time Indian companies will be able to participate in the production of a US fighter. India's premier Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) currently produces the Sukhoi Su-30 and MiG-series of Russian jets, as also the British Jaguar.

According to Brian Nelson, who heads the international communications wing of Boeing Integrated Defence Systems (IDS) that manufactures the F-18, an IAF order would mean the first eight aircraft would be shipped off-the-shelf and the remaining jointly produced in India.

Toward this end, Boeing would be aggressively positioning the F-18 at the upcoming Aero India 2007 international air show at Bangalore Feb 7-11, with one aircraft performing aerial manoeuvres and another on static display.

This apart, the C-17 Globemaster strategic lift transport and the Chinook CH-47 helicopter troop carrier, as also a large scale model of the P8I maritime reconnaissance aircraft that has been offered to the Indian Navy, will also be on display.

Boeing plans to take aloft select dignitaries on the F-18, the C-17 and the CH-47 during the air show to enable them to experience first hand the capabilities of the aircraft and their cutting edge technologies, Nelson said.

A host of senior Boeing executives from the company's defence and civilian wings would also be attending the show.

"We view this (Aero India) as the start of a journey to establish a real and lasting relationship with (the) Indian (defence) industry to fulfil their requirements," Chadwik pointed out.

"We see more and more involvement in the defence sphere as India will get to see Boeing as a friend to create business opportunities. We see opportunities for long-term business relationships.

"A decade down, when we look back, we will be able to see the good opportunities that have been created," Chadwik added.

The IAF had in 2001 projected a requirement of 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) to replace its ageing fleet of MiG-21 and MiG-23 Soviet era fighters. The new planes are expected to arrive by 2010, with the deal expected to cost in the region of $6-11 billion (Rs.265-485 billion).

In 2004, a request for information (RFI) was sent out for four jets - the US F-16, the Russian MiG-29, the French Mirage 2000-5 and the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen.

In addition, the manufacturers of the F-18, the French Rafaele and the four-nation European Typhoon also sent in their offers. And last month, Russia made known its intention to bid for the IAF order with its MiG-23, essentially a Mig-29 with a slightly different profile but with a more powerful engine.

A request for proposal (RFP) was to have been sent to the short-listed manufacturers in 2005 but this is nowhere in sight, even as the IAF's fighter squadrons have dwindled to 30, against a sanctioned force level of 39 1/2 squadrons. This has led to reports that the IAF's requirements have risen to the region of 200 aircraft.

The MRCA issue has acquired added importance in view of the US decision to sell 36 new F-16s to Pakistan. The Pakistan Air Force had received its first F-16 in 1982 and another 39 by 1987, after which the US Congress blocked further sales. Thirty-two of the original 40 aircraft are currently flying.

The IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi, has gone on record saying the delay in sending out the RFP is due to the government's newly formulated defence procurement policy.

Apart from laying down that equipment purchases must incorporate a life-cycle cost element, the policy also contains an "offsets" clause under which 30 percent of all deals worth over Rs.3 billion has to be reinvested in India by way of purchases or by creating infrastructure.

Offsets, according to Nelson, were not an issue.

"We are very comfortable with offsets. We have executed $27 billion dollars of offsets in 35 countries and our partners have been more than happy with the results," he maintained.

"Boeing is not just looking at obligations it has to fulfill but at opportunities to develop long-term partnerships with long-term benefits for Boeing and Indian companies," Nelson contended.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-18_fighters_in_India/articleshow/1553617.cms

I wonder if joint production can result in cost/aircraft falling below 45 million $...?

If its so ..then going for F18/E instead of mig35ovt will make sense for IAF .

C-17 Globemaster strategic lift transport and the Chinook CH-47 helicopter troop carrier

are they just up for display ? or is our govt looking to get these aircraft also..
does any one have any info on these..?
 
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I wonder if joint production can result in cost/aircraft falling below 45 million $...?
Quite unlikely!
To absorb the production into the existing (russia oriented) infrastructure India would have to invest billions to integrate a western design.
 
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Neo,
The reason you gave is not the problem, Superhornet is god damn expensive at nearly 65-70 Million, I dont know how a TOT can reduce it to 45 or less.. I would say without any factual evidence 50-55 million
 
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Which Hornet are we looking at, Nothing less than the E/F Super Hornet is worth it,

Neo,

We already have a jaguar Line, which is Western
 
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Neo,
The reason you gave is not the problem, Superhornet is god damn expensive at nearly 65-70 Million, I dont know how a TOT can reduce it to 45 or less.. I would say without any factual evidence 50-55 million

Adu,

I'm not sceptical but rather being realistic here.
Remember the MKI fiasco? The production in India is expected to be more expensive (approx $8billion) than the units built in Irkutsk! It's been widely reported in the media last summer.

Super Hornet would be even more expensive.
 
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i saw those reports too, They are from the CAG(auditor general) therefore has credibility, The fact is Indian Salaries have quadraupled and even more from 1998, as well the Inflation of various prices of raw materials. Therefore I am not suprised....
Expeneses in India have increased to Russia, But things cant be the same with USA, we still have cheaper labour and raw materials than them. I am sure there would be atleast a $10million difference on each plane. Its just a hunch
 
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Adu,

I'm not sceptical but rather being realistic here.
Remember the MKI fiasco? The production in India is expected to be more expensive (approx $8billion) than the units built in Irkutsk! It's been widely reported in the media last summer.

Super Hornet would be even more expensive.

Neo,

I feel that by joint production Boeing meant complete outsourcing of some f18
parts manufacture to HAL .
F18E production is not going to end any time soon
and even US navy is ordering new F18 s as of now.
HAL might become global supplier for lower end components of F18s(HAL already supplies aircraftdoors,gearboxes,landinggear etc of Boeing jumbojets) while the higher end ones like radar,engine and avionics are still manufactured in USA...this synergy btween HAL and Boeing will result in significant cost saving s imho.

In case of MKI HAL took the burden of manufacturing components for which it doesnt have anysound infrastructure to start with (like advanced avionics etc) ....taht might be the reason for the significant cost overruns.
 
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Neo,

I feel that by joint production Boeing meant complete outsourcing of some f18
parts manufacture to HAL .
F18E production is not going to end any time soon
and even US navy is ordering new F18 s as of now.
HAL might become global supplier for lower end components of F18s(HAL already supplies aircraftdoors,gearboxes,landinggear etc of Boeing jumbojets) while the higher end ones like radar,engine and avionics are still manufactured in USA...this synergy btween HAL and Boeing will result in significant cost saving s imho.

In case of MKI HAL took the burden of manufacturing components for which it doesnt have anysound infrastructure to start with (like advanced avionics etc) ....taht might be the reason for the significant cost overruns.

Lilo

That explains time-delays, but not cost overruns, in terms of Sukhoi's...
Inflation of prices and increasing of salaries in the past one decade, which i am sure that you are very much aware of
 
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Lilo

That explains time-delays, but not cost overruns, in terms of Sukhoi's...
Inflation of prices and increasing of salaries in the past one decade, which i am sure that you are very much aware of

adux,

yes, i forgot that factor too.:)
 
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Neo the report was wrongly said in media, true first batches became a bit costly but IMHO not the other ones.

HAL even outright denied reports of MKI's being manufactured in russia in their press release.

you need to handpick when it comes to indian defence reporters.

i can see about F18 in tv all day "us offering advanced poop" - hell never do i see rafale/mig35.

all cash propagandas anyways,

seems like Boeing is "trying" hard hard to get the MRCA order.

if they gives "100% TOT" and they knows in that case we will have dual use of technology we might just agree on 60 or so birds.


about C17 globemaster - FORGET IT that prick costs around 300 MILLION DOLARS - overpriced !!!!We are building MRTA already.
 
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Neo the report was wrongly said in media, true first batches became a bit costly but IMHO not the other ones.

HAL even outright denied reports of MKI's being manufactured in russia in their press release.

you need to handpick when it comes to indian defence scientist.

i can see about F18 in tv all day "us offering advanced poop" - hell never do i see rafale/mig35.

all cash propagandas anyways,

seems like Boeing is "trying" hard hard to get the MRCA order.

if they gives "100% TOT" and they knows in that case we will have dual use of technology we might just agree on 60 or so birds.
I thought even Russian experts agreed on higher unitcost in India, is that correct? :confused:

about C17 globemaster - FORGET IT that prick costs around 300 MILLION DOLARS - overpriced !!!!

Stick with 6 C-130J's and the MTA. C-17 production line is to be closed sooner than expected, read it somewhere in WAB.
 
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C-17 is not required in India. We have IL's for that purpose. MTA will rock and C-130J is already comming.

Such articles paid for by foreign companies are going to increase in frequency in the next 2 weeks as AI 07 progresses. Incidentally im leaving for Bangalore tomorrow :D
 
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^6 it was initially Neo - read HEad of Irktusk Presidents interview recently.

not only we are producing our own but exporting Parts to russia for the Su30 MK"M" and MK"a" variant.
 
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