Blasphemy Charged for Recieving Text Message

[Gazzi]

The question is, do they make sense?

The answer is YES,

If you don;t like it then thats your problem. Muslims tend to practice their religion and wish to do so at free will. If you have a problem with that then that is a matter for yourself really now isn't it.

 

[scrumpy]

What amuses me more is that many people in this forum who by the way are followers of their own religions i.e. Christianity and Hinsuism mainly, find it normal to question Islam and its principles and to what I have answered, yet not say anything about the fact that it is their religions also which teach the same thing and have a discussion of my quotes from the Bible, will be adding some from Hindu scriptures soon. Then lets compare altogether. Wow, what hypocricy.

I think I should start a new thread of Islam, Christianity and Hinduism and discuss individual topics on all three religions one by one.

Gazzi, I'll tell you what amuses me. The discussion is about blasphemy laws in Pakistan and how they are used to prosecute innocents. Most seem to be in agreement that such laws are wrong. In my opinion, these laws appear to be the interpretation of the intolerant few which is enforced on others.

Are you trying to gain legitimacy for such laws by pointing out to similar rules in other holy books? Rules which you agree are not practised by the followers of the said religions.

 

[Jumeirah]

Gazzi I have a lot of muslim mates in India. Some of them are the nicest people I have know. Loving and highly tolerant. I consider Islam a great religion too.

Since you are in the UK could you explain in your opinion why the west or rather entire world targets Muslims. Is it that the majority of the world is naïve and ignorant?

 

[Gazzi]

Gazzi, I'll tell you what amuses me. The discussion is about blasphemy laws in Pakistan and how they are used to prosecute innocents. Most seem to be in agreement that such laws are wrong. In my opinion, these laws appear to be the interpretation of the intolerant few which is enforced on others.

Are you trying to gain legitimacy for such laws by pointing out to similar rules in other holy books? Rules which you agree are not practised by the followers of the said religions.

"Prosecute innocents", well that needs to be amended, are they innocent. If someone insults Allah and his Messenger in an Islamic Country or a country which has Blasphemy Laws then it is an offence for which they will be prosecuted.

Its very arrogant to say that we don't agree with them, as I don't don't agree with the Equivalent other countries have termed "hate crime" Laws.

I am pointing out laws from other religions and am proving that they too exist in other religions. Question is, Why Islam is on trial again.

 

[Gazzi]

Gazzi I have a lot of muslim mates in India. Some of them are the nicest people I have know. Loving and highly tolerant. I consider Islam a great religion too.

Since you are in the UK could you explain in your opinion why the west or rather entire world targets Muslims. Is it that the majority of the world is naïve and ignorant?

So you do admit that Muslims are being targetted. Well there is your answer as to why Muslims react when they are being targetted.

-------------

I am in the UK and wlthough this issue is somewhat going off topic will tell you. All muslims who live in the UK obviously live in a non Islamic country. Therefore there are no Shariah Laws here. However, due to the "illegal wars" conducted by the West against Muslims, and previus issues sizzling away, like, Palestine, Africa, South Asia, and others alike and the centuries of hostilities between the two clashes of civilisations which exist to today, Muslims living in the UK, those born here have become part of the global clash.

Yes there are a vew few individuals from within our community who are involved in bad deeds like terrorism involving International groups, and these people are dragging everyone else down with them. Hence why Muslims are being targetted in the UK for which we are taking appropriate action and trying to deal with the situation here as we do not believe that whilst living in the UK as our home we should be involved in bombing our own home. This is where we live and will die eventually.

 

[Jumeirah]

Enough have been said by the worthy members! i'll just add, if Mr Hector has actually done the blasphemic act he needs to be rogered properly.

And Mr Truthseeker we in Pakistan impose death penalty i repeat death penalty for blasphemy (against the Holy Prophet(PBUH), the Holy Book and the related material and individuals)

And if it is proved the otherway around then the police and that guy from sunni-tehreek needs to be kicked in their groins!!

Xeric it is very sad what happened to Mr Hector and his inocent family. End of the day one of pakistans premier eductional institutes belongs to the Roman Catholic Jesuit order called Saint Patricks in Karachi. Most of Pakistans elite, powerfull and highly educated have attended school there. How come they did not attend the Islamic schools called Madressas?

Just to name a few students of Saint Patrick Jesuit Order. eg Musharraf and Bhutto.

Notable alumni


General Pervez Musharraf, Former President of Pakistan
Shaukat Aziz, Former Prime Minister of Pakistan
Rashid Minhas, Nishan-E-Haider recipient, Pakistan Air Force
Muhammad Ayub Khuro, former Premier of Sind
Ghulamali Allana, former Mayor of the City of Karachi
Manuel Misquita, former Mayor of the City of Karachi
Mahmood Haroon, former Mayor of the City of Karachi]
lmdad Agha, High Court Judge
Zahid Aslam, High Court Judge
Yusuf Haroon, former Governor of West Pakistan and of Sind
Mohammed Khan Junejo, Prime Minister
Shahnawaz Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto's brother
Jam Sadiq Ali, Former Chief Minister of the province of Sindh, Pakistan
Muzaffar Hussain Shah, Speaker Sindh Assembly, Former Chief Minister Sindh
Javed Miandad, Test Cricketer
Faisal Iqbal, Test Cricketer
Humayun Saeed, TV star
Air Marshal Azim Daudpota, Former Governor of Sindh and former Managing Director of PIA
Dr Asif Aslam Farrukhi, Writer
Wajihuddin Ahmed, Chief Justice of the Sindh High Court
Izhar Haider, Founder of Shiekh Khalifa Bin Zayed Arab Pakistani School, Abu Dhabi UAE

 

[Gazzi]

Xeric it is very sad what happened to Mr Hector and his inocent family. End of the day one of pakistans premier eductional institutes belongs to the Roman Catholic Jesuit order called Saint Patricks in Karachi. Most of Pakistans elite, powerfull and highly educated have attended school there. How come they did not attend the Islamic schools called Madressas?

Just to name a few students of Saint Patrick Jesuit Order. eg Musharraf and Bhutto.

Notable alumni


General Pervez Musharraf, Former President of Pakistan
Shaukat Aziz, Former Prime Minister of Pakistan
Rashid Minhas, Nishan-E-Haider recipient, Pakistan Air Force
Muhammad Ayub Khuro, former Premier of Sind
Ghulamali Allana, former Mayor of the City of Karachi
Manuel Misquita, former Mayor of the City of Karachi
Mahmood Haroon, former Mayor of the City of Karachi]
lmdad Agha, High Court Judge
Zahid Aslam, High Court Judge
Yusuf Haroon, former Governor of West Pakistan and of Sind
Mohammed Khan Junejo, Prime Minister
Shahnawaz Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto's brother
Jam Sadiq Ali, Former Chief Minister of the province of Sindh, Pakistan
Muzaffar Hussain Shah, Speaker Sindh Assembly, Former Chief Minister Sindh
Javed Miandad, Test Cricketer
Faisal Iqbal, Test Cricketer
Humayun Saeed, TV star
Air Marshal Azim Daudpota, Former Governor of Sindh and former Managing Director of PIA
Dr Asif Aslam Farrukhi, Writer
Wajihuddin Ahmed, Chief Justice of the Sindh High Court
Izhar Haider, Founder of Shiekh Khalifa Bin Zayed Arab Pakistani School, Abu Dhabi UAE

Well in that case, now that you wish to bring other parts of religion into the discussion and question issues involving madrassas then lets look over the border and question Hindu problems from worshipping idols (products of thieir own manufacture) and hindu caste systems, abortions having identified the female sex of child etc etc etc.

 

[FlickerSingh]

"Prosecute innocents", well that needs to be amended, are they innocent. If someone insults Allah and his Messenger in an Islamic Country or a country which has Blasphemy Laws then it is an offence for which they will be prosecuted.

Its very arrogant to say that we don't agree with them, as I don't don't agree with the Equivalent other countries have termed "hate crime" Laws.

I am pointing out laws from other religions and am proving that they too exist in other religions. Question is, Why Islam is on trial again.

i usually do not get involved in religious debate as i believe that religion is best kept in the individual's heart but your post above begs a reply. it seems that gazzi is misreading the whole issue. let us change the whole issue around and take this incident to a different country eg italy. if a muslim family is harassed by the italian catholic police for a sms which they received which insults Jesus Christ or the pope , will you say that the law of blasphemy in italy can be defended? it is not the issue of pakistan or islam which is being questioned but the issue of whether a law in pakistan should be changed for justice. if the law can be manipulated to harass minorities then the people of pakistan should look at rewording the law or removing it. laws are created with the best of intentions but even the best of intentions can become a nightmare which needs to be addressed

 

[FlickerSingh]

Well in that case, now that you wish to bring other parts of religion into the discussion and question issues involving madrassas then lets look over the border and question Hindu problems from worshipping idols (products of thieir own manufacture) and hindu caste systems, abortions having identified the female sex of child etc etc etc.

as a sikh i must say that your ignorance about hinduism is very entertaining. u should remove culture from a religion. if one has 2 start a debate on the weaknesses of the cultures of various religions such as hinduism , islam, christianity etc then this forum will be swamped. when your own house is under attack do not rush off 2 demolish your neighbors house as it will not stop the destruction of your dwelling

 

[Gazzi]

i usually do not get involved in religious debate as i believe that religion is best kept in the individual's heart but your post above begs a reply. it seems that gazzi is misreading the whole issue. let us change the whole issue around and take this incident to a different country eg italy. if a muslim family is harassed by the italian catholic police for a sms which they received which insults Jesus Christ or the pope , will you say that the law of blasphemy in italy can be defended? it is not the issue of pakistan or islam which is being questioned but the issue of whether a law in pakistan should be changed for justice. if the law can be manipulated to harass minorities then the people of pakistan should look at rewording the law or removing it. laws are created with the best of intentions but even the best of intentions can become a nightmare which needs to be addressed

Flickersingh - I may have misjudged the previous comment made in that case and was going to produce a very comprehensive study here of Hindu tactics in India widely practised. But I am willing to ignore that previous post and continue the thread without going off n a tangent.

Yes, if Jesus is insulted then the person should be punished. However, there is a difference is debating the concept of God and insulting God as seen through different eyes. This Islam totally allows and encourages to happen and for people to debate.

Blasphemy laws are just that BLASPHEMY. If one is going to live under Shariah and insult the God and Messenger of those of the land in which they live then clearly there is a law to hold those to account. I am sure insulting Gandhi, Nehru, or Hindu Gods in India are also treated with blasphemy like laws, only in India they are called Hate Crimes.

 

[Gazzi]

as a sikh i must say that your ignorance about hinduism is very entertaining. u should remove culture from a religion. if one has 2 start a debate on the weaknesses of the cultures of various religions such as hinduism , islam, christianity etc then this forum will be swamped. when your own house is under attack do not rush off 2 demolish your neighbors house as it will not stop the destruction of your dwelling

Flickersingh, your knowledge of Hinduism is very vague and limited. I have studied the 4 Vedas and Bhagvad Gita comprehemsively and please see my thread "Islam, Christianity, Hinduism & Buddhism". I have not bought Sikhism into this as I do not see any relevance for discussing Sikhism being an offshoot of other religions.

I can hold debate on two things, religious scriptures or what the people are doing. Two different worlds altogether. However, I tend not to bring in what people are doing as this doesn't mean anything. I could do the same for Muslims, they tend to do things which has got nothing to do with Islam.

 

[Jumeirah]

Gazzi you seem to be the Guru of all religions. Tell me do you have the sharia law in the UK. Its present here in the middle east and penalties vary from Death to slashes. The latter one i beleive they love as it is spanking of the S.

I have seen the on TV the Taliban spanking Women severly in public with a stick. Is that the sharia law?

 

[FlickerSingh]

Flickersingh - I may have misjudged the previous comment made in that case and was going to produce a very comprehensive study here of Hindu tactics in India widely practised. But I am willing to ignore that previous post and continue the thread without going off n a tangent.

Yes, if Jesus is insulted then the person should be punished. However, there is a difference is debating the concept of God and insulting God as seen through different eyes. This Islam totally allows and encourages to happen and for people to debate.

Blasphemy laws are just that BLASPHEMY. If one is going to live under Shariah and insult the God and Messenger of those of the land in which they live then clearly there is a law to hold those to account. I am sure insulting Gandhi, Nehru, or Hindu Gods in India are also treated with blasphemy like laws, only in India they are called Hate Crimes.

no sir. hate crimes apply 2 crimes of inciting people 2 unrest by making derogotary statements against another group. varun gandhi's case is a well known case of hate crimes. but 2 insult hindus or nehru or gandhi is not a hate crime in a democratic secular india. if i said that nehru was a weak leader or gandhi was an opportunist then that is not a hate crime. but if i say kill the muslims or kill the brahmins from india that is a hate crime. pakistan is an islamic state but has minority religions. my point is that the blasphemy laws can be manipulated by enemies of a person even a muslim citizen of pakistan as it seems from the reported case

 

[FlickerSingh]

Flickersingh, your knowledge of Hinduism is very vague and limited. I have studied the 4 Vedas and Bhagvad Gita comprehemsively and please see my thread "Islam, Christianity, Hinduism & Buddhism". I have not bought Sikhism into this as I do not see any relevance for discussing Sikhism being an offshoot of other religions.

I can hold debate on two things, religious scriptures or what the people are doing. Two different worlds altogether. However, I tend not to bring in what people are doing as this doesn't mean anything. I could do the same for Muslims, they tend to do things which has got nothing to do with Islam.

yes sir i read your other thread and indeed you seem very well versed on the hindu scriptures. as a person who moved from hinduism to sikhism i must admit that you know very well the founding scriptures of hinduism and the messages of those scriptures. my shock was at your insult of the religion because of the culture of a few ignorant people who follow the religion. i have many people in my family who still follow the hindu faith and they will agree with you on the concept of the absolute one as the almighty.

 

[Gazzi]

yes sir i read your other thread and indeed you seem very well versed on the hindu scriptures. as a person who moved from hinduism to sikhism i must admit that you know very well the founding scriptures of hinduism and the messages of those scriptures. my shock was at your insult of the religion because of the culture of a few ignorant people who follow the religion. i have many people in my family who still follow the hindu faith and they will agree with you on the concept of the absolute one as the almighty.

Flickersingh - I am not sure which insult you are on about but truly, if I have insulted anyone I sincerely apologise to anyone/everyone as nothing can justify an insult and do take back anything I may have said. I am very defensive of such an accusation and treat very closely to heart.