BJP asks Muslims to give up Ayodhya

[ek_indian]

Exactly !

But the whole bias towards building of a Ram Temple or against the Ram Janmbhoomi Movement and demolition of the mosque shouldnt be interpreted into a 'WITH ME' or 'AGAINST ME' issue by the Hindus on this forum and in the country as a whole .

We are not to RIGHT the HISTORICAL WRONGS committed 3 or 4 or 5 centuries back . Unlike their Pakistani counterparts, neither have the Indian Muslims glorified academically or morally the subjugation of kufr by India's Muslim rulers or invaders by imposition of jaziya , pilgrimage tax or plain raiding of temples in their journals , seminaries or religious discourses nor have htey shown any explicit inclination towards the Jamaat-e-Islami ideology although they as a community have been resistant to social reforms being introduced by the govt .
Unfortunately , our own political outfits claiming to be 'Nationalist' and standing with the banner of Hindutva are not only short-sighted but also opportunistic and lack strategic vision , given to exploiting public dissatisfaction in a way that suits their need for a larger share in votes from the Hindu electorate . The Sangh , BJP and allied organizations need introspection desperately .

To begin with , they need to realise that NO political ideology in India will survive if its not inclusive .

If they indeed took it to themselves to RIGHT historical WRONGS ( which being a hindu , I personally feel were nothing but Barbarianism ) then they should haven't separated Facts from Fiction .
ASI comes with remains of a 10th century Temple under the disputed site , the same ASI reported no EVIDENCE SUGGESTING a Hindu place of worship existed under the site before .
Keeping the Epic aside , Babur in his memoirs Tuzk-i-Babari mentions that temples were raided by his generals in the expeditions against the kingdom of Chanderi . What happened in Mathura is well documented as well . Thus , instead of going ahead with Ram Janmbhoomi movement and vandalizing a mosque (to raise passions leading to polarization in the electorate ) where a Hindu temple 'might' have existed if the BJP had gone for a long drawn movement for a govt sponsored restoration of the destroyed Hindu places of worship and had asked the govt to come clean by appointing a panel of historians and archaeologists in order to separate fact from fiction , make the history of 'persecution' mandatory in university history syllabus and had gone for bringing to all Hindu sects the message of diluting the role of caste in Hindu society , then and only then had we been able to truly commend the JAN SANGH and BJP .

Instead , the activities of Sangh n BJP have lacked vision . The same can be said of the way they deal with the 'alleged' forcing/luring of tribals to convert to Cristianity . Any organization whether under the banner of Hinduism , Islam , Sikhism ... if its activities lead to braek down in law and order and relative harmony between communities should be dealt with a heavy hand and forced to mend its ways !

Nice post.
You summed up pretty well. The "Idea of India" is more beautiful and appealing than India itself. I differ a bit with some part regarding RSS/BJP bit it is out of scope of this thread.

 

[ambidex]

Exactly !

But the whole bias towards building of a Ram Temple or against the Ram Janmbhoomi Movement and demolition of the mosque shouldnt be interpreted into a 'WITH ME' or 'AGAINST ME' issue by the Hindus on this forum and in the country as a whole .

We are not to RIGHT the HISTORICAL WRONGS committed 3 or 4 or 5 centuries back . Unlike their Pakistani counterparts, neither have the Indian Muslims glorified academically or morally the subjugation of kufr by India's Muslim rulers or invaders by imposition of jaziya , pilgrimage tax or plain raiding of temples in their journals , seminaries or religious discourses nor have htey shown any explicit inclination towards the Jamaat-e-Islami ideology although they as a community have been resistant to social reforms being introduced by the govt .
Unfortunately , our own political outfits claiming to be 'Nationalist' and standing with the banner of Hindutva are not only short-sighted but also opportunistic and lack strategic vision , given to exploiting public dissatisfaction in a way that suits their need for a larger share in votes from the Hindu electorate . The Sangh , BJP and allied organizations need introspection desperately .

To begin with , they need to realise that NO political ideology in India will survive if its not inclusive .

If they indeed took it to themselves to RIGHT historical WRONGS ( which being a hindu , I personally feel were nothing but Barbarianism ) then they should haven't separated Facts from Fiction .
ASI comes with remains of a 10th century Temple under the disputed site , the same ASI reported no EVIDENCE SUGGESTING a Hindu place of worship existed under the site before .
Keeping the Epic aside , Babur in his memoirs Tuzk-i-Babari mentions that temples were raided by his generals in the expeditions against the kingdom of Chanderi . What happened in Mathura is well documented as well . Thus , instead of going ahead with Ram Janmbhoomi movement and vandalizing a mosque (to raise passions leading to polarization in the electorate ) where a Hindu temple 'might' have existed if the BJP had gone for a long drawn movement for a govt sponsored restoration of the destroyed Hindu places of worship and had asked the govt to come clean by appointing a panel of historians and archaeologists in order to separate fact from fiction , make the history of 'persecution' mandatory in university history syllabus and had gone for bringing to all Hindu sects the message of diluting the role of caste in Hindu society , then and only then had we been able to truly commend the JAN SANGH and BJP .

Instead , the activities of Sangh n BJP have lacked vision . The same can be said of the way they deal with the 'alleged' forcing/luring of tribals to convert to Cristianity . Any organization whether under the banner of Hinduism , Islam , Sikhism ... if its activities lead to braek down in law and order and relative harmony between communities should be dealt with a heavy hand and forced to mend its ways !

Strategic vision can only be achieved when you work as missionary and observe things with your own eyes and ears. By simply commenting that a particular organization lack strategic vision and maturity doesn't describes what exactly they are doing out in social war zones. Without knowing the realities and deeds of other opposing powers you can not conclude what hindutva parties are doing is something non secular for the sake of core Indian secularism.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

So you are saying Hindus do not respect Mosques and Islam.
If i have ever passed by a mosques temple gurdwara my heart and sole has always showed respect for that place and its cause.

I totally agrees with you that demolition of Barbi mosque(which was not used for prayers although) was a sin even by Hindu religious definitions.

1.The question is why an ordinary Hindu was forced to do that act of shame.
2.The second question is where is the common sense of Muslims those who think they have no responsibility to show their respect for well documented ancient Hindu holiest place. Don't you think there is a deep sense of insecurity in Hindu minds that Muslims have never respect there place of worship.

That place belongs to Hindus those who believe in their religion what so ever. Let me put it like this If a muslim can become a Hindu then i will have no problem to accept Islam myself. I mean the question is all about your belief. Either you should tell to Hindus that your religion has no meaning or you should tell Muslims the same.

Hindus were demanding a solution to this problem even many years before independence. Their only rationale and argument was that these three ancient places are very sacred to them and a solution should be worked out with muslim community so that peace and harmony may prevail. It was a very genuine legitimate and democratic demand (i think you will agree with me).
Hindus took law in there hands and must be penalized no doubt. But now we are debating this case in courts, i would like to ask you if Muslims loose that case and by the permission of any Indian courts Hindus will be able to build their temple, on what credible grounds you will be define would be harmony between both communities.

What BJP is saying now i think is the best option but they could have done this many years before. The Raj and Congress created a divide between both communities. The deliberate communication gap was politically enforced due to vote bank politics between Hindus and Muslims after independence which created this mess. There are many great muslim scholars, intellectual, living legends we have in India and both Hindu and muslim communities could have solved this issue but now the situation has gone out of proportion.

And that is the reason why I mentioned that the destruction of the masjid was a shame on both Indian and Hindus. The issue should have been resolved. Perhaps an amicable situation would have been to ask the masjid to donate a small portion of its land to develop a shrine which identified the site as the possible birth place of Shri Rama without in anyway altering or interfering with the structure and operation of the masjid. In that way I am certain that many people including Muslim Indians would have contributed to building a temple in a nearby area. Destroying the masjid and now demanding that a temple be built in its stead took India back a thousand years. How can we expect our Muslim citizens to feel at home in India if we go around destroying their places of worship in our zeal to satisfy our egos about what happened a thousand years ago ? How can any Hindu justify the destruction of a place of worship where countless people throughout the ages bowed down to extend their prayers to the Creator? There simply can be no excuse or justification for the act of destroying that mosque. It was purely barbaric and nothing else

 

[Halaku Khan]

And that is the reason why I mentioned that the destruction of the masjid was a shame on both Indian and Hindus. The issue should have been resolved. Perhaps an amicable situation would have been to ask the masjid to donate a small portion of its land to develop a shrine which identified the site as the possible birth place of Shri Rama without in anyway altering or interfering with the structure and operation of the masjid. In that way I am certain that many people including Muslim Indians would have contributed to building a temple in a nearby area. Destroying the masjid and now demanding that a temple be built in its stead took India back a thousand years. How can we expect our Muslim citizens to feel at home in India if we go around destroying their places of worship in our zeal to satisfy our egos about what happened a thousand years ago ? How can any Hindu justify the destruction of a place of worship where countless people throughout the ages bowed down to extend their prayers to the Creator? There simply can be no excuse or justification for the act of destroying that mosque. It was purely barbaric and nothing else

Don't you think Muslims should be educated about the barbarism, slaughters and temple-destructions perpetrated by the invaders.

After all, the vast majority of Muslims are of South Asian descent, and their own ancestors went through that holocaust.

Consider for example, the admirable attitude that the people of Latin America have towards Columbus. They may be Catholics by religion, but that does not prevent them from being proud of their own heritage. Take a look at this:

Columbus Day sparks protests in Latin America
Author: Reuters
Publication: Reuters
Date: October 14, 1998

Indians in Honduras symbolically executed Christopher Columbus on Monday while demonstrators stripped naked in Mexico, staked a claim to ancestral lands in Paraguay and marched in protest elsewhere in Latin America on Columbus Day.

Five hundred and six years after the Italian explorer discovered America on behalf of the Spanish crown, Columbus was vilified as having brought genocide to a people he mistakenly called Indians because he thought he had sailed to India.

A mock trial in Honduras condemned Columbus to death for mass murder. A plywood image of Columbus -- known as Cristobal Colon in Spanish -- was skewered with arrows fired by indigenous warriors.

See also: Lodi News-Sentinel - Google News Archive Search

 

[Halaku Khan]

You comment is appreciated. However who will give that guarentee either from Hindu or Muslims. There are multiple organizations for both. I am not denouncing your suggestion. Just a bit sckeptical about its implementation.

Just as a side note, Hindus has already offered to build a mosque at other place. Hindu organization wants only three sites in Ayodhya, Kashi and Mathura. I am not saying their demands are right or wrong. Just telling the facts.

BTW, I think another Ayodhya is almost impossible considering Indian politics.

To be fair, it must be said that there were also Mughals who supported temples.

In the latter part of his life the Emperor Akbar became very interested in Sanatan Dharma. He even moved away from Islam and tried to establish his own religion, which he called Din-Ilahi.

The Kashi and Mathura shrines were destroyed by Aurangazeb. But Aurangazeb's brother Dara Shikoh was a great patron of the Mathura temple. He translated the Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads into Persian. Ultimately he was executed by Aurangazeb for apostasy.

 

[kak1978]

This matter is in courts right now, so whatever the political parties are talking about building a temple/mosque at this place is just fooling the people. BJP's if it wants to succeed as a true national political party has to move away from fundamentalism. We need a non fundamental secular alternative to congress party in India and only BJP can pull that off. I hope the new young leadership of BJP and the subsequent leaders of this party understand this.

 

[Imran Khan]

BJP remembers ram mander when out of power.they play with emotions of pablic i think religun with politcs is poisen they should show some thing for develping india or let them stay out of power.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

So you are saying Hindus do not respect Mosques and Islam.
If i have ever passed by a mosques temple gurdwara my heart and sole has always showed respect for that place and its cause.

I totally agrees with you that demolition of Barbi mosque(which was not used for prayers although) was a sin even by Hindu religious definitions.

1.The question is why an ordinary Hindu was forced to do that act of shame.
2.The second question is where is the common sense of Muslims those who think they have no responsibility to show their respect for well documented ancient Hindu holiest place. Don't you think there is a deep sense of insecurity in Hindu minds that Muslims have never respect there place of worship.

That place belongs to Hindus those who believe in their religion what so ever. Let me put it like this If a muslim can become a Hindu then i will have no problem to accept Islam myself. I mean the question is all about your belief. Either you should tell to Hindus that your religion has no meaning or you should tell Muslims the same.

Hindus were demanding a solution to this problem even many years before independence. Their only rationale and argument was that these three ancient places are very sacred to them and a solution should be worked out with muslim community so that peace and harmony may prevail. It was a very genuine legitimate and democratic demand (i think you will agree with me).
Hindus took law in there hands and must be penalized no doubt. But now we are debating this case in courts, i would like to ask you if Muslims loose that case and by the permission of any Indian courts Hindus will be able to build their temple, on what credible grounds you will be define would be harmony between both communities.

What BJP is saying now i think is the best option but they could have done this many years before. The Raj and Congress created a divide between both communities. The deliberate communication gap was politically enforced due to vote bank politics between Hindus and Muslims after independence which created this mess. There are many great muslim scholars, intellectual, living legends we have in India and both Hindu and muslim communities could have solved this issue but now the situation has gone out of proportion.

I totally concur to what you said, including the fact that demolition should not have taken place while the matter is in court. Amongst some other negative thoughts, the sentiments of ownership - "this place is mine and that is yours" is not endorsed by the Hindu faith. So all those involved in the demolition should introspect about exactly what they want to safeguard - the isms of Hinduism or the historical temple (which no longer exists), because saving one (or the idea of it) is, it seems to me, contradicting the other.

The idea should be to endorse the precepts of this "eternal way of life" through actions that reflect them, and not to defeat that purpose by indulging in such activities.

 

[ambidex]

BJP remembers ram mander when out of power.they play with emotions of pablic i think religun with politcs is poisen they should show some thing for develping india or let them stay out of power.

Imran Sir,
Hindus in India do not have any other option but to trust BJP. The way contemporary Hindu has been behaving shows how dysfunctional, disorganized but natural they are. Hindus have suffered reverse discrimination. It was high cast Hindu majority parliament who passed our constitution one must always consider before generalizing any thing. Why a bunch of idiots were manipulated by a party who was never capable to prove their agenda on national landscape prove that something was burning deep beneath the hearts and minds of Hindus due to bad policies of congress. The same congress created divide by making both religions look demon to each other when there was always a possibility of compromise.
What would have any other nation not to mention Pakistan being a majority Muslim nation would have done to preserve their sacred place by using discretion of law and constitution on priority to work out compromise or erasing that symbolic encroachment can help in understanding this matrix.

 

[Roshan]