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Biggest caste survey: One in four Indians admit to practising untouchability

Lets agree to disagree then.I don't look at the life like you do..............or rather I can't.For example,my parents wanted me to be a doctor but I wanted to be a business man.They kept forcing me but I didn't budge and they've practically started to despise me ever since;they wanted me to be a so called 'good' person who would never bother about the things happening around him yet I grew up to be the exact opposite.They wanted me to learn music and keep away from 'fighting games' but I started practicing bare knuckle fighting.
As much as I respect them,I do not consider myself a mere tool to accomplish 'their' wish,even against and at the cost of my wish.No sir,I can't live my life like that and I certainly do not feel the urge to finish myself for that I couldn't/didn't fulfill their wish.I will do whatever I feel right and under no circumstances I would do something against my free will.........not even at the order of my parents.
I do not or rather can not share such an 'ideology' like yours..............or perhaps I do not have any ideology at all,but that's how I'm.So again,lets agree to disagree and move on.


AFAIK a Good Parents cant oppose their childrens wish, their career.I dont see such a situation in my life or my friends life.
But situation would be meet dead end often when it comes to
marriage life that is what I am talking about.Then again a Good parents that have their own decisions or motives would complete ignore them dont take adventurous act like honour killing.
 
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One thing that I have definitely noticed is indians are very class conscious, even when outside their country, I have seen these things with my own eyes, for example a middle aged indian man refusing to sit next to a black women - because she did an inferior job.
 
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To us everyone who earns same can sit together have marriage no discrimination among them. Anyone who has Muslim name will get same opportunities. But its not possible for Hindus. Same wealthy Bhattacharya and Dash can sit together maybe. But no marriage. A Bhattacharya will always prefer a Bhattacharya no Dash. We adopted whichever dont contradicts Islam.
Some marriage rituals, giving women more rights, language, literature, peacefulness which were performed here thousands years we have taken it. To me only multiple god is Hinduism. So we arent influenced by that.
Meaning by bigotry practices I mean any kinds of bad and malpractices, which is mainly done by low iq hindus.
Doing dharna to Sadhus, urine drinking and giving animal more privilege over human.
First, anyone with a Muslim name will NOT get the same opportunities. Their economic standing and also their social standing will have a huge impact on how they are treated.
There are inter caste marriages. Pick up any Indian newspapers and head to the marriage section, there are many caste based marriages and many with 'caste/religion no bar'. It boils down to personal choice. Sunnis marry Sunnis, same with Shias. It's just being comfortable. Love transcends these differences.
Then you say about malpractices - dharna to Sadhus? No one does that. Dharnas are done for political demands. Urine drinking is something that nobody does either. Also no animal is given preference over human beings. All beings are created equal. Not that one is better than another.


Most important thing about caste is this - Most Hindus today will be willing to say 'F*** caste'. Reform is an intrinsic part of it.

So your idea about Hinduism was based on half truths and ignorance. No issues with that.

Now if your questions are answered, may I ask a few of my own? :D
 
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Guys has anyone seen the actual report?

I tried to search for it, couldnt find it. A few other journos have tried to search, but have not been allowed to see it aswell Strange that just the hindu and Indianexpress alone were given a sneak peek.
 
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Why NCAER ‘Untouchability’ Numbers Need to be Questioned

Debatable methodology, selective leaks and politically correct conversations around caste combine to reinforce a particular narrative, that Hinduism is irredeemably regressive. Oh, and does concern about hygiene make you a “casteist bigot”?

Two recent news reports in the Hindu and the Indian Express — newspapers which for some reason were given privileged access to an as yet unreleased survey on household attitudes by the National Council for Applied Econiomic Resaerch (NCAER) — have highlighted two questions relating to caste prejudice, or what is termed as “untouchability”. Some additional details on the survey are provided by one of the lead researchers here.

I have tried unsuccessfully to obtain a copy of the survey, so can only go by the sketchy information provided in these three sources. These form the basis of a series of tweets I put out which are collected here.

The volume of abusive, malicious, and slanderous tweets I received— some emanating from, or shared by, prominent journalists in India and abroad — including by a former India correspondent of the New York Times — all conveniently failed to take issue with the specific arguments I raised.

Specifically, my assertion that, in my own home, I don’t allow the maid I currently employ to cook for me, as I have concerns about her hygiene, was taken completely out of context, most crucially failing to note that neither do I know my maid’s caste, nor have I asked her, and I don’t care to know. Omitting that crucial explanation then became a form of smear and propaganda giving rise to many denigrating, sexist and abusive tweets whose intent was to brand me as a casteist bigot — none of which dealt with legitimate concerns with what we know of the survey.

The key difficulty, again based on the limited information we have available, is the potentially misleading design of the questionnaire.

The first question asks respondents: “Do any members of your household practice untouchability?”

Firstly, it would be good to know how this question was posed in Hindi or the other regional languages presumably spoken by many of the 42,152 households surveyed. How exactly was “untouchability” translated and how would it be interpreted by the households surveyed? Would they immediately understand that this referred to discrimination based on caste? This seems plausible, but one would have greater faith in the question if we saw exactly how it was rendered in the various languages and how it was explained to the respondents.

Be that as it may, if respondents answered “no” to the first question, they were asked a second question: “Would it be OK for someone from the low caste community to enter your kitchen or use your utensils?”

This is highly problematic from a survey design perspective. Suppose someone surveyed didn’t want any outsider, regardless of caste, to enter their kitchen or handle their utensils. The way this question is framed, that individual might well answer “no”, even if they wouldn’t allow any outsider to enter their kitchen and harboured no caste prejudice. This is either a badly worded or misleading question.

A more sensible question would have asked: “If in the event you allow someone from the upper caste to enter your kitchen and use your utensils, would you also allow someone from a lower caste to do so?”

If someone answered “no” to this, then there would be a stronger inference that caste prejudice was being expressed. The flaw with the question in the form used in the survey is that it conflates question of caste discrimination with the question of access to one’s kitchen and cooking utensils — which is a question that importantly involves hygiene.

The headline numbers presented — that 27% of total households, 30% of rural households, and 20% of urban households practice untouchability — does not tell us whether these percentages come from question 1, question 2, or some unspecified aggregation of the two questions. This again makes it impossible to interpret what these numbers mean. Presumably, the full report breaks this data down into responses by question, but we don’t have access to this, so have no way to judge how meaningful the underlying raw data are.

Amit Thorat, a lead researcher in this study, himself casts doubt on how the responses to the second question might be interpreted. He says: “The mindset prevalent amongst the upper castes is that people belonging to the lower castes (or even those who work in their homes) are unclean and dirty so they should not enter the kitchen or share utensils, which reinforces the notion of ‘purity and pollution’.” (emphasis added)

Notice how Thorat concedes that a negative response to question 2 might relate not just to the caste affiliation of someone, presumably domestic help, entering the kitchen but might refer more broadly to those who work in the home, irrespective of caste.

This is a rather astonishing concession, since if true, a negative response to the second question might well — as I conjecture — have as much to do with concerns, say, about the hygienic standards of one’s domestic help as anything to do with caste prejudice. Again, the poor design of the question makes it impossible to separate out these two possibilities.

None of this is to suggest that caste prejudice doesn’t exist in India. Most certainly it still does. What is at issue here is how widespread it remains and how reliable the evidence from this survey actually is, given the poor design of the questionnaire.

Some who attacked me have argued that those who harbour caste prejudice use hygiene as a cover for that. This is an interesting hypothesis, perhaps even a plausible one, except that the survey gives us no way to get a handle on this possibility. That’s especially true of a poorly worded question conflating caste and hygiene, thereby making it impossible to separate out those who have legitimate concerns about hygiene and kitchen access versus those who use it as an excuse to practice caste prejudice.

One does also have to ask, why did news organisations, which presumably had access to the full survey, report only the findings on caste prejudice and not discuss the report’s other findings on household attitudes? Thorat himself blogged only on these two questions.

Is it because of the sensational shock value of the claim that nearly a third of Indians “practice untouchability”? Barring other possibilities, that would appear to be the most plausible inference.

Unfortunately, the shroud of political correctness and affirmative action that surround questions of caste make it impossible to have a mature and nuanced conversation which tries to disentangle legitimate questions of hygiene — irrespective of caste — with questions of caste prejudice. The fact that caste prejudice has, historically, often been cast in terms of ritual purity does not make such a debate illegitimate — but it does make the politically correct brigade squeamish.

Many of the glib and quite a few of the abusive messages I got asserted that hand washing with soap could solve the hygiene problem. And here’san elaboration of the same point in a full-fledged column: “Now if the rest of us can take care of hygiene by using soap, why can’t the domestic worker who cleans the bathroom wash her hands with the same soap and proceed to the kitchen to cook a meal?”

Presumably, then, such individuals don’t brush their teeth, shower, use sanitary napkins, visit the doctor if they have troubling symptoms — because the magic of hand washing with soap has solved every conceivable problem related to hygiene — including grime under the fingernails, lice, body odour, and vaginal infections, to name just a few.

If hygiene were as simple as washing one’s hands, one would imagine that hospitals might have sanitary staff also doubling in the kitchen. Would you check yourself into such a hospital? I presume not. I’m afraid that, according to the logic of India’s journalistic elite, makes you a casteist bigot.

Those who chant the mantra of “hand washing with soap” either use this to silence legitimate debate around hygiene, or — more worryingly — simply don’t understand what hygiene involves — and this from some of the best educated people in India!

It’s far easier to simply label anyone who expresses legitimate concern about how to interpret a poorly designed survey on caste prejudice as a casteist bigot, since this shuts off any possibility of a serious conversation. Further, it reinforces a particular narrative, that Hinduism is irredeemably regressive, which, one presumes, is the real agenda.
 
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First, anyone with a Muslim name will NOT get the same opportunities. Their economic standing and also their social standing will have a huge impact on how they are treated.
There are inter caste marriages. Pick up any Indian newspapers and head to the marriage section, there are many caste based marriages and many with 'caste/religion no bar'. It boils down to personal choice. Sunnis marry Sunnis, same with Shias. It's just being comfortable. Love transcends these differences.
Then you say about malpractices - dharna to Sadhus? No one does that. Dharnas are done for political demands. Urine drinking is something that nobody does either. Also no animal is given preference over human beings. All beings are created equal. Not that one is better than another.


Most important thing about caste is this - Most Hindus today will be willing to say 'F*** caste'. Reform is an intrinsic part of it.

So your idea about Hinduism was based on half truths and ignorance. No issues with that.

Now if your questions are answered, may I ask a few of my own? :D

Your version of story is half true. Denying wont change these facts.
You can ask questions. But you arent in suitable position in a pakistan forum, are you? :butcher:
 
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Guys has anyone seen the actual report?

I tried to search for it, couldnt find it. A few other journos have tried to search, but have not been allowed to see it aswell Strange that just the hindu and Indianexpress alone were given a sneak peek.

A comment from Swarajyamag:

It is not Govt. that released it.

NCEAR is not Govt. organization.

It is a private entity which did the survey 2 years back along with Univ of Maryland.

They chose to release it now because they are exploring ways to increase conflict in Indian society.

There is a concerted effort from leftist gangs, foreign gangs who are trying to find new fault lines in Indians society.

For 60+ years COngi gangs and their fellow leftist mafia used every trick to divide Indians:

OC vs OBC
OC vs SC/ST
OBC vs SC/ST
Hindu vs Muslim
Hindu OC vs OBC vs dalit+Muslim

The caste coalitions,religious coalitions have be created,manipulated for 60+ years by Congi Mafia system along with help from western libtards who create mathematical models on manipulating masses.

The facts that Dalits/Tribals/BC/OC all supported BJP has caused serious burn and hatred among leftists academicians,Islamists who pretend seculars and simply educated leftists mafia which received patronage and billions from incompetent/corrupt regime of India.

Right now, the research is being leaked out partially and venomous snakes of left try to create divisions in the society in the hopes of bringing Italian regime back.

Q: Is there caste/religious/regional discrimination in India?
A: Yes there is.

Q: Has it increased or decreased in the last 10-20 years?
A: Yes it did.

Q: Why?
A: Growth,Economic opportunities,Urbanisation.

Q: Is it insignificant that you can ignore?
A: Probably not

Q: How can you make it insignificant?
A: More growth,More opportunities,Increased urbanisation,education,training kids about diversity

Q: Does the reprehensible left agree that is the solution?
A: No. They will propagate more hate,more discussions, call anyone who argue against it as sanghi or brahmin or bigot.

Q: How can we change India?
A: Don't be swayed by this hateful arguments of the left no matter what your caste,religion,region either to feel victimized or to use these characteristics to attack someone. As the economy grows,education and opportunities increase, new generations don't follow the prejudices of great grandmas.
 
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The Caste system, has a negative impact on indias image world wide.
 
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You still have remnants of Mapilla riot in your state, in case you forgot about it.
Razakaars are all gone to Pakistan.
Owaisi can only bark from his old city area, he has no power outside it, Raja Singh openly challenges him in owaisi constituency.
The only one who rules Hyderabad is Hindus, not muslims.All these years MIM is kept on a leash.Do you wonder why MIM loses election when they contest in Secunderabad which is part of the twin cities.
LoL you history has arabs, portugese settled and intermingled with you.
No,Mappilas are local Malayali Muslims only...
Many were,But still lot of them are remaining in your Hyderabad in the form of MIM and mujahind...
what hindus??..Wasn't your two time CM late Rajashekara Reddy a converted Christian??..
Portuguese interminglings are there in your andra also..ever heard about anglo Indian community of Vizag??..Even there is a seat specially reserved for an Anglo Indian member in Andra assembly..says much..Moreover i have read about nizam, razakkars and their hobbies..
 
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Sorry defacto business language is telugu or hindi not urdu.Even a small store owner will do business in Telugu or hindi,
Infact even the marwaris who come from rajasthan who speak hindi and Rajasthani tend to learn telugu to do business.
Similar is the case of Sikhs and other people.
LoL ever tried reading in urdu, it looks like arabic wont make any sense,every shops names are written in Telugu and english not urdu.
Apart from some in Hyderabad muslims, not everyone speaks urdu,That is why MIM cries from time to time that urdu needs resuscitation as its dying.
hik hik..My sister was studied near Nizamabad..She speaks fluent urdu,but can't understand a single telegu word,says lot about your telegu..Urdu is widely understood there in shops,hotels,autowalas,buses etc etc...Even the local telegu guys speak perfect urdu there ...
 
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Your version of story is half true. Denying wont change these facts.
You can ask questions. But you arent in suitable position in a pakistan forum, are you? :butcher:
Not entirely. My statements are true. In its entirety. There are issues with our practices, but we move along with the time. Keeping the basics intact (belief in the one Paramatmaan/Brahman* etc). I did not deny anything at all.

*Brahman has nothing to do with Brahmin. Or Brazil. :D

Yes, you are correct, I can't ask the questions here. But you are aware of them. That to me is good enough. :P
 
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No,Mappilas are local Malayali Muslims only...
Many were,But still lot of them are remaining in your Hyderabad in the form of MIM and mujahind...
what hindus??..Wasn't your two time CM late Rajashekara Reddy a converted Christian??..
Portuguese interminglings are there in your andra also..ever heard about anglo Indian community of Vizag??..Even there is a seat specially reserved for an Anglo Indian member in Andra assembly..says much..Moreover i have read about nizam, razakkars and their hobbies..
If mapillas were keralites why did they start killing your people for Khilafat in Turkey?
Since they claimed they were their descendants.Nowhere in India did Violence happen during khilafat movement except in kerala.
Those who remained back are sheep,who were given choice to migrate to Pakistan or live under rules prescribed by us, mujahid hind and those types can only talk here, but in reality we show them their place on every hindu festival, do come and visit hyderabad during Ganesh chaturthi,Navaratri,Mahakali jatara,Sri rama navami and Hanuman Jayanthi and see for yourself.
YSR came up on the Reddy surname(hindu) not as a christian.If he had contested as a converted christian he wouldnt even have won his reddy votes in AP forget winning rural votes, if he told people he was a converted christian,he acted as a hindu to win votes.So you see that is how things go in AP.
Anglo indian community is from britishers and their kin left behind not portugese.
 
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hik hik..My sister was studied near Nizamabad..She speaks fluent urdu,but can't understand a single telegu word,says lot about your telegu..Urdu is widely understood there in shops,hotels,autowalas,buses etc etc...Even the local telegu guys speak perfect urdu there ...
Incase you noticed urdu sounds a bit similar like hindi.
Infact urdu originated from khari boli dialect of hindi from UP/bihar regions.
So some might understand but not read it,
i can speak hindi and it can be considered as fluent urdu but you cannot read urdu words, they look arabic while hindi words are devanagari script.
Does your sister read urdu?SO WAS YOUR SISTER FLUENT IN Hindi?
There is no way you can live in AP without knowing Telugu and hindi.
The rural people speak Telugu and you say Nizamabad its a rural area not urban.
hik hik hik.
 
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If mapillas were keralites why did they start killing your people for Khilafat in Turkey?
Since they claimed they were their descendants.Nowhere in India did Violence happen during khilafat movement except in kerala.
Those who remained back are sheep,who were given choice to migrate to Pakistan or live under rules prescribed by us, mujahid hind and those types can only talk here, but in reality we show them their place on every hindu festival, do come and visit hyderabad during Ganesh chaturthi,Navaratri,Mahakali jatara,Sri rama navami and Hanuman Jayanthi and see for yourself.
YSR came up on the Reddy surname(hindu) not as a christian.If he had contested as a converted christian he wouldnt even have won his reddy votes in AP forget winning rural votes, if he told people he was a converted christian,he acted as a hindu to win votes.So you see that is how things go in AP.
Anglo indian community is from britishers and their kin left behind not portugese.
''Ummah'' syndrome+Wahhabi brainwashing.....This will always bound to happen if you put religion before,,blindly....Same thing was also happened to Kashmiri Pandits and Bangladeshi Hindus...
Anglo Indians includes British+Portuguese descendants...Say Goan Christians..Sizeable of them are of Portuguese+local konkani lineage...
 
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Incase you noticed urdu sounds a bit similar like hindi.
Infact urdu originated from khari boli dialect of hindi from UP/bihar regions.
So some might understand but not read it,
i can speak hindi and it can be considered as fluent urdu but you cannot read urdu words, they look arabic while hindi words are devanagari script.
Does your sister read urdu?SO WAS YOUR SISTER FLUENT IN Hindi?
There is no way you can live in AP without knowing Telugu and hindi.
The rural people speak Telugu and you say Nizamabad its a rural area not urban.
hik hik hik.
No,only speak....
I have a Kannada Hindu friend from Bidar(I think that area is very close to telegana)..He speaks fluent urdu..
Yes,Both Hindi and urdu are basically the very same thing..Only scripts are different and in urdu have lot of Persian and Arabic loan words....
 
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