Beyond JF-17 Thunders: A quantum leap in technological growth

[SBD-3]

here is an article posted on a Chinese website (cited from a pakistani website). Please be informed that it is for information purposes only as me myself disagree to a greater portion of this article. I am posting it just to get the agreements and disagreements of the other members

2011-01-16 (China Military Analysis cited from pakistanpatriot.com) -- Pakistan has faced tribulation since birth. A hegemonic neigh bent on its destruction, a far away enemy that is insidious in it enmity, a rough neighborhood, and a geographic area which focuses the superpower’s attention to it.Pakistanis are the most resilient nation on earth–coming up with solutions to defend itself by any means necessary. A missile based nuclear deterrence combined with a potent Air Force and a 1 million Army will make anyone casting a bad eye on Pakistan to think twice. Bharat was unable to cross the border in 1998, 2002 and 2010 because of the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). Pakistan has made quantum leaps in technology to help it get on the way.

* The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, established in the early 1970s with the aim to create an indigenous facility for overhauling aircraft and aero-engines.
* PAC manufactured of a small trainer aircraft by establishing the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF).
* The factory has gathered experience of manufacturing over 300 Mushshak / Super Mushshak primary flight trainer aircraft and of producing structural assemblies of K-8 Advanced Jet Trainer.
* Success on these and other similar projects afforded the confidence to the decision makers to venture into manufacturing a fighter aircraft at PAC. On the other hand, Kamra Avionics & Radar Factory (KARF).
* In the JF-17 programme, first milestone in manufacturing was achieved with the capability of sub-assembly work in Jan 2008.
* 2009. On 23 November, in the same year, the first indigenously assembled JF-17 aircraft rolled-out from the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. (The News)

The PAF Countermeasures are as follows:

* Begin the slow progress of mastering the technology so that it can be inculcated into existing Aircraft.
* Jointly design and build Aircraft with China with approach 5th generation and beyond.
* Purchase US aircraft with a bit older technology, and then upgrade those aircraft at lesser cost.
* Work with Indonesia, and Turkey in developing local military technologies to counter the threats.
* Use less expensive ways to deal with the incoming threat.
Bank on Missiles to counter the threat.
* Bring incremental improvement to the JF-17 Thunder in Blcoks of fifty. This will keep the JF-17 thunder infused the latest technology for the next fifty years.
* Start production of the FC-20s based on the J-10B and work with the Chinese on the production of the J-11s.
* Enhance the UAV technology to the next level and design and produce Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles (UCAVs),
* One expensive option is to build X-47 Pegasus class, to counter India’s military aviation threat to Pakistan.
* Work with the Chinese to jontly build the WS-13 engine so that it can be used on the UCAV’s.
* Continue development of the Babur Cruise missile and use to to build UCAV’s.
* This mixture of response will not only be a potent defense against the IAF, but it will be eliminate the attempt of the IAF to intimidate Pakistan.

Pakistan is now moving towards Stealth Technology for its birds, and finalizing its Unmanned aircraft. will be has already signed contracts with China about Space Technology. It is also looking at UCAV’s. UCAV’s’s were autonomous cruise missiles, something that the U.S. and Germany have been fielding since the 1940′s. In Europe, several UCAV’s are known as robotic warplanes ( the Neuron, the Barrakuda and the Corax) are under development. These UACV concepts had their origins in the US, and Europe wants to remain competitive with the American Aviation industry. All the programs have stealth features playing in the same league as the American J-UCAS (Joint Unmanned Combat Aerial System). The US program includes the Boeing X45C and the Northrop Grumman X47B Pegasus . These European projects are the first foreign competitors for the American UCAV’.

These major UCAV’ systems are in play:

* The six nation $480 million European effort has a produced a flying prototype.
* The joint German-Spanish, Swiss, Barrakuda conducted its first taxi tests on the 26 January 2006
* The British Corax UACV. The UK perceives the Joint Strike Fighter as the last manned platform for its Air Force, which will eventually replaced by an UCAV. The Corax, which undertook its maiden flight already in 2004.
* China is making UCAV by adopting the old F-7 designs. China is using the J-6 and J-7 into target drones. Pakistan which already has the old F-7s, can do this cheaply.

The UACVs have the following advantage:

* Greater maneuverability – in modern day fighter aircraft human tolerance is the limiting factor for the number of g forces the plane can pool during rapid manoeuvres, with UACV this bottleneck is eliminated so they can be very manoeuvrable indeed.
* Less weight – this can affect many things like endurance time, acceleration, payload and so on. One or two pilots and all the stuff you put in the cockpit can weight quite a bit.
* Better aerodynamics – you don’t need the cockpit canopy.
* Situational awareness – as Clerik said you can create very good virtual cockpit on ground that is superior to anything you can fit in an aircraft. SA is most important for air superiority missions, I think, and as air-to-air battles are pushed to BWR there is no benefit of having your Mark I eyeball on the actual aircraft.
* No crew fatigue – on the ground pilots can control their UACVs in greater comfort and rotate during mission.
* Lower price – often the flying unit can be made cheaper. All that fancy plane-human interface gear, life support, ejection seats and whatnot costs big $, but in case of UACV you only need the plane-human interface part and with that it is one for many planes and can bee cheaper as it doesn’t have to endure all the stresses and such.
* You need gear for communicating with UACVs instead, but some means of communication are already in place, so no big change there.
* Pilots are out of harms way – UACVs will save pilots lives. Pilot is very expensive to train and hard to replace quickly.
* Long Range Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Combat
Short Range within Visual Range Combat:
* Low Costs:
* Quantity versus Quality:
* Kamikaze possibilities

The Disadvantages of UCAVs

* Tackling the Problem of Jamming:
* Human Element
* Lag – radio communications can travel only so quickly but reaction time is critical for air engagements.
* Single point of failure – if the enemy takes out the command centre, all the UCAV’ are neutralized too.

Those who espouse following the C-47 route for the PAF are living in a fools paradise. The US will not share that technology with Pakistan and it will be too expensive for the PAF. The best route for the PAF will be to work with the Chinese and the Europeans to develop these unmanned systems

Beyond JF-17 Thunders: A quantum leap in technological growth | China Military Power Mashup

 

[Super Falcon]

what a rubbish we ara again going with F 16 there is nothing beyong JF 17 we are only going to have JF 17 and f 16 for next 50 years nothing new in PAF banned by PAF it self

 

[Dazzler]

what are you smoking? ever heard of FC-20?

 

[Donatello]

what a rubbish we ara again going with F 16 there is nothing beyong JF 17 we are only going to have JF 17 and f 16 for next 50 years nothing new in PAF banned by PAF it self

Given the financial woes that our governments have repeatedly put in, i doubt if you can name another country that managed all of such technological maturity at such little cost and time.

Finances are a major issue, and perhaps the only issue.

We do not have lack of expertise or alliances. Only funding issues.
Considering we didn't have any manufacturing capability in 1947, for our military, we have surely come a long way.

Societies take time to develop and mature.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Given the financial woes that our governments have repeatedly put in, i doubt if you can name another country that managed all of such technological maturity at such little cost and time.

Finances are a major issue, and perhaps the only issue.

We do not have lack of expertise or alliances. Only funding issues.
Considering we didn't have any manufacturing capability in 1947, for our military, we have surely come a long way.

Societies take time to develop and mature.

Well actually it is not the Financial woes but the inherent problem of the J 10 that is making the Pakistani government skeptical. That is why they are waiting for the FC-20 to mature into a good platform. And I dont see anything wrong with having more F 16s because it is a potent fighter.

 

[Donatello]

Well actually it is not the Financial woes but the inherent problem of the J 10 that is making the Pakistani government skeptical. That is why they are waiting for the FC-20 to mature into a good platform. And I dont see anything wrong with having more F 16s because it is a potent fighter.

J-10 has more future in front of it than F-16s.........keeping in mind J-10 the China's newest fighter...

 

[Manticore]

Well actually it is not the Financial woes but the inherent problem of the J 10 that is making the Pakistani government skeptical..

are you referring to avionics or aerodynamic design-- if design , plz ellaborate


The Canards in the Lavi have also dihedral but also they are far too close to the wings in fact over them-- The Eurofighter`s are not as close to the wings as those on the Lavi, the position has to do with drag/lift ratio, the best combination is high aspect canards low aspect wings check the Eurofighter has also strakes -- chinese J-10 also the canards are not too far from the wing, however are not so close as those in the Lavi and Rafale, both the Eurofighter and J-10 have the least drag canard delta wing configuration specially good for a fast aircraft -- the Viggen has low aspect wings and canards, these low aspect canards and wing are best configured for high lift

 

[RazorMC]

Bring incremental improvement to the JF-17 Thunder in Blcoks of fifty. This will keep the JF-17 thunder infused the latest technology for the next fifty years.

There is major flaw here. Fifty years from now, even the F-22 and F-35 will become outdated.
How will we manage even a minimum deterrence with such old technology? There is a limit to how much you can upgrade an aircraft. We can't incorporate TVC or RCS into those designs.

And UAVs will only have a limited success for us since the "Reaper" costs around $60 million. The price tag is too much for us to procure them in large numbers, which reduces effectiveness.

 

[SBD-3]

There is major flaw here. Fifty years from now, even the F-22 and F-35 will become outdated.
How will we manage even a minimum deterrence with such old technology? There is a limit to how much you can upgrade an aircraft. We can't incorporate TVC or RCS into those designs.

And UAVs will only have a limited success for us since the "Reaper" costs around $60 million. The price tag is too much for us to procure them in large numbers, which reduces effectiveness.

our whole history is about 60 odd years and look how far we are from where we strarted, you can have a fair idea where we might be in next 50 years if we continue as we had

 

[illuminatidinesh]

There is major flaw here. Fifty years from now, even the F-22 and F-35 will become outdated.
How will we manage even a minimum deterrence with such old technology? There is a limit to how much you can upgrade an aircraft. We can't incorporate TVC or RCS into those designs.

And UAVs will only have a limited success for us since the "Reaper" costs around $60 million. The price tag is too much for us to procure them in large numbers, which reduces effectiveness.

Agreed all the more reason for the PAF to concentrate on a new fighter like JF-17.

 

[SBD-3]

There is major flaw here. Fifty years from now, even the F-22 and F-35 will become outdated.

What do you expect the updated things then? Spaceships

 

[RazorMC]

our whole history is about 60 odd years and look how far we are from where we strarted, you can have a fair idea where we might be in next 50 years if we continue as we had

I totally agree with you. But I wanted to point out the mistake in continuing to use F-16 and JF-17 even fifty years later.
China's recent history goes back to 1949 (two years after ours) and look where they are now. We can really learn from those guys, esp. hacking ...

 

[RazorMC]

Agreed all the more reason for the PAF to concentrate on a new fighter like JF-17.

The JF-17 is excellent for now, but 50 years means that much newer technology will be required to maintain even a minimum deterrence capability.

 

[RazorMC]

What do you expect the updated things then? Spaceships

Who knows ?
Maybe we'll have one too just to annoy India.

 

[Super Falcon]

well pakistan should have got J 10 till jnow why paf making late on these deals