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Best way to implement Sharia in Pakistan ???

Exact same thing goes for what you are saying. NO SYSTEM IS FLAWED. Systems are a set of rules that are determined by people. Lots of things change as men grow. Its the people that find the loopholes to taint the system. My personal opinion is that Shariah is outdated and cannot be implemented in our lives. But that is my personal belief and I could be wrong. Since honest people can even run anarchy into prosperity. Anyway just to be sure which Shariah are you in favor of?

The only thing which is out dated our knowledge, our Iman which should be driving force for our life. Shariah & Personal life are two different thing, but still when men grow nothing get changed. It's only get mature, and mature.

The loopholes in the system isn't new thing, any system can be hacked into something new. But it doesn't make the original system as faulty one. It's just the change which effected to make it illegal. Remove those changes, assumption, you will find same old system, which was perfect when it was send by Allah for all humans. And will be a perfect system which Allah order us to Follow.

As per tafseer of Surah 6:129-132,

'Allah Ta'ala sets some unjust people (Zalim) over other unjust people and thus has one Zalim (oppressor) punished at the hands of another Zalim.'
 
What I am saying is , Saleena (most probably) had no idea about the true value of Munir Report as a historic document that describes in detail the dirty role played by Mullahs during Pakistan Movement and their attempts to destabilize Pakistan with the help of few politicians , once it was created , .........

wont disagree. However, Saleena's primary question was not to analyse the impact of munir report in the context of Mullahs so it will not be fair to assess her on this. Her objective was to vindicate Jinnah from wanting a secular non religious Pakistan. She took it as given that Jinnah was not a mullah of any sort. Anyways, lets forget Saleena for this thread lol

Iqbal and Jinnah both believed that a secular democracy was compatible with Islam

ill beg to differ. the whole thesis of 'modern democratic state' is 'secular democracy' which Jinnah categorically disagreed with. However, I agree that they both believed that 'democracy' (without qualification of 'secular') was compatible with Islam.

It is clear from Iqbal's letters to Jinnah that in the proposed Muslim state, he wanted to see the establishment of such a social democracy which had the approval of the Islamic Shariah. But he had pleaded for the reinterpretation of the Shariah law through Ijtihad to suit the modern needs and requirements of the Muslim community, and was of the view that if such a reinterpretation was possible, the Muslims could benefit from the material blessings of Islam.

cant see the reason why i cant agree with this. The need for Ijtihad has long been pending. Our difference will very much be on what sort of 'reinterpretation of the Shariah law' have we got in mind. But we can be satisfied with this much agreement i hope.

Jinnah believed that the Islamic laws, which he described as precedences, could be amended or even ignored to meet the requirement of times. His speech on the Special Marriage Bill in the Imperial Legislative Council reflects his conviction that Islam is not the name of any static mode or pattern of life. It is a spirit and not body ....

Agreed - with the earlier qualification.

Was good to have a decent discussion. Take care sir
 
The funny thing is, those that DO are the ones that get weeded out swiftly when it comes to Pakistani politics. I personally don't believe Shariah is outdated even though my personal views are extremely liberal. The biggest thing is having honest people in power and then letting the people of the state decide what they want. Even if they choose shariah, there will always be justice. Therefore, I think it can work. IF you have dishonest politicians then even a secular system doesn't work.


Nahhhhhh I disagree....she is lovely....i adore her....... #stopbeingahater :P lol who do you like?

LOTR trilogy :D
 
The only thing which is out dated our knowledge, our Iman which should be driving force for our life. Shariah & Personal life are two different thing, but still when men grow nothing get changed. It's only get mature, and mature.

The loopholes in the system isn't new thing, any system can be hacked into something new. But it doesn't make the original system as faulty one. It's just the change which effected to make it illegal. Remove those changes, assumption, you will find same old system, which was perfect when it was send by Allah for all humans. And will be a perfect system which Allah order us to Follow.

As per tafseer of Surah 6:129-132,

'Allah Ta'ala sets some unjust people (Zalim) over other unjust people and thus has one Zalim (oppressor) punished at the hands of another Zalim.'

Faith is exactly as you said, personal. You can govern your life according to your faith, but you cannot govern my life with your faith and vice versa. Its just not possible with this amount of population. Back in the day total population of the world was around 210m people. Out of which half of them I would assume the men were in the military and the rest were women,children and the elderly. Systems built then works for that period. Again, its a personal belief system just like yours.

What you quoted from the Quran was said by Socrates and then reiterated by Cicero later. Not word for word but the brain gets the gist of it. I wish I could help you google the links but I am actually going to go watch over paid football players who better not screw up todays game into penalties.
 
As an Indian Muslim, I don't understand what's stopping Pakistan from implementing Sharia?

Only Sharia can fix problems of Muslim-majority countries.
 
wont disagree. However, Saleena's primary question was not to analyse the impact of munir report in the context of Mullahs so it will not be fair to assess her on this. Her objective was to vindicate Jinnah from wanting a secular non religious Pakistan. She took it as given that Jinnah was not a mullah of any sort. Anyways, lets forget Saleena for this thread lol

(Just rechecked) and I was right actually , Saleena didn`t know that "Munir quote" had its origins in Munir Report (1954) and not "Jinnah to Zia"(1979) ... In an Interview to Talha Mujaddidi of Bridgehead Institute , she said :

"My original research began with an accidental discovery that a certain speech of Jinnah could not be traced to any of Mr. Jinnah’s speeches but could only be found in Munir’s From Jinnah to Zia (1979) ......... Sometime after SJ1’s (Secular Jinnah, 2005) release I discovered that the Munir quote actually had its origins in the ‘Munir Report’ of 1954 –.... I have reviewed this in detail in SJ2 .."

Her book is a good effort for someone holding a BSc degree in Human Biology from Loughborough University , and who got interested in history "accidentally" ... But as I said earlier , it fails to impress serious readers .. her knowledge of history is limited and she has based her book on a "wrong presumption" ... Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a modern state , and "Munir quote" is not the only proof ... not even the most significant one .. But you are right , let`s forget Saleena for this thread ......


ill beg to differ. the whole thesis of 'modern democratic state' is 'secular democracy' which Jinnah categorically disagreed with. However, I agree that they both believed that 'democracy' (without qualification of 'secular') was compatible with Islam.

Without qualification of secularism ???

Dr. Mohammad Iqbal was an admirer of the Turkish experience. In his well-known lectures on Reconstruction of Religious Thoughts in Islam, Dr. Iqbal says :

"If the Renaissance of Islam is a fact, and I believe it is a fact, we too one day, like Turks, will have to re-evaluate our intellectual inheritance."

While defending the Republic of Turkey and its actions, Allama said in his famous lecture on ‟The Principle of Movement in the Structure of Islam‟:

“They therefore reject old ideas about functions of state and religion and accentuate the separation of church and state. The structure of Islam as a religio-political system no doubt does permit such a view.”

Iqbal not only considered a modern secular democracy to be compatible with Islam , he in fact idealized it ...


The need for Ijtihad has long been pending. Our difference will very much be on what sort of 'reinterpretation of the Shariah law' have we got in mind. But we can be satisfied with this much agreement i hope.

We may have our own understanding of "reinterpretation of Shariah" , but the points is , what did our founding fathers want and what was their understanding of this "reinterpretation" .... Both Jinnah and Iqbal rejected Hadith as a source of law , and a shariah based on Quran only , is compatible with the modern world .. And that is what I have been saying in all my posts (on this thread) ... Conservatives quote Jinnah`s speeches when he talks about Islam , but then very conveniently replace his definition of Islam with their own , hence all the confusion ..... How Jinnah and Iqbal understood Islam , is in fact "Kufr" by Mullahs` definition ...


Was good to have a decent discussion. Take care too
 
LOTR trilogy :D
tumblr_lz04u8NH0s1r4kfic.gif
haha jkjk meh not much of a Lord of the rings person :sick:
 
Exact same thing goes for what you are saying. NO SYSTEM IS FLAWED. Systems are a set of rules that are determined by people. Lots of things change as men grow. Its the people that find the loopholes to taint the system. My personal opinion is that Shariah is outdated and cannot be implemented in our lives. But that is my personal belief and I could be wrong. Since honest people can even run anarchy into prosperity. Anyway just to be sure which Shariah are you in favor of?
I agree....it's use or abuse and people have a tendency of abusing. I just feel that since Pakistan always likes to preach a religious identity, it should be given sharia law just have a good government to implement it and not a radical one that abuses it like the Taliban. Then again it is hardly possible for it to not be misinterpreted and misused.
It is probably my lack of knowledge and I apologize for it, but I thought there was just one kind of sharia....what are the different kinds if you are up for sharing that with me?
 
Was there no law in operation in Hindustan before the British arrived? Are there no instances when our rulers,princes and powerful officials were summoned before the Qadhi? What laws did we follow when Muslim civilizations prospered for centuries in al Andalusia, Mali-N Africa, Egypt, Baghdad, Damascus, Istanbul under the Ottomans, under Amir Taimur, in Hindustan, in East Asia and elsewhere? Are we English that we have to follow the English Common Law? Are Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Machiavelli, Hobbs-Locke-Russo, Marx-Engels and the lot part of our heritage? Do they belong to our society or culture?How many of us consult the Holy Quora'n to find answers?
 
I agree....it's use or abuse and people have a tendency of abusing. I just feel that since Pakistan always likes to preach a religious identity, it should be given sharia law just have a good government to implement it and not a radical one that abuses it like the Taliban. Then again it is hardly possible for it to not be misinterpreted and misused.
It is probably my lack of knowledge and I apologize for it, but I thought there was just one kind of sharia....what are the different kinds if you are up for sharing that with me?

Why not? Taliban say they are muslims. You do not agree is a different story. Now we have your Shariah and Taliban Shariah. Do you think that these are the two main sects that will want to bring their rules? Can not remember what the jirga of maulvis of different sects is called that determines religious edicts and issue mutual religious fatwas. There is one in Pakistan but I cant remember what it is called and now its annoying me because google is not helping at all.
 
Why not? Taliban say they are muslims. You do not agree is a different story. Now we have your Shariah and Taliban Shariah. Do you think that these are the two main sects that will want to bring their rules? Can not remember what the jirga of maulvis of different sects is called that determines religious edicts and issue mutual religious fatwas. There is one in Pakistan but I cant remember what it is called and now its annoying me because google is not helping at all.
I understand what you are saying.....but this is close to the sharia I had in mind while speaking to you....Sharia law - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia as unfair as the laws in this might seem, and I personally don't agree with, the thing is if Pakistan likes to claim to be islamic so damn much, I really think it should adopt it. There is an insane amount of corruption, high crime rate, money the new god, women oppressed but still they like to claim to be so islamic and a muslim country. Therefore at least having sharia will stop these things even though it overdoes some other things. I say give the people what they want and preach....just make sure the people in power are honest to the laws. Looking at Pakistan right now...any type of honest leadership would do it good. Also the taliban...no because anyone willing to kill innocent people for a cause is not an example of good leadership in my opinion
 
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(Just rechecked) and I was right actually , Saleena didn`t know that "Munir quote" had its origins in Munir Report (1954) and not "Jinnah to Zia"(1979) ... In an Interview to Talha Mujaddidi of Bridgehead Institute , she said :
"My original research began with an accidental discovery that a certain speech of Jinnah could not be traced to any of Mr. Jinnah’s speeches but could only be found in Munir’s From Jinnah to Zia (1979) ......... Sometime after SJ1’s (Secular Jinnah, 2005) release I discovered that the Munir quote actually had its origins in the ‘Munir Report’ of 1954 –.... I have reviewed this in detail in SJ2 .."
Her book is a good effort for someone holding a BSc degree in Human Biology from Loughborough University , and who got interested in history "accidentally" ... But as I said earlier , it fails to impress serious readers .. her knowledge of history is limited and she has based her book on a "wrong presumption" ... Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a modern state , and "Munir quote" is not the only proof ... not even the most significant one .. But you are right , let`s forget Saleena for this thread ......

how interesting that we both are right. The book I have been referring to all this time is the second edition (2010).


Dr. Mohammad Iqbal was an admirer of the Turkish experience. In his well-known lectures on Reconstruction of Religious Thoughts in Islam, Dr. Iqbal says :
"If the Renaissance of Islam is a fact, and I believe it is a fact, we too one day, like Turks, will have to re-evaluate our intellectual inheritance."
While defending the Republic of Turkey and its actions, Allama said in his famous lecture on ‟The Principle of Movement in the Structure of Islam‟:
“They therefore reject old ideas about functions of state and religion and accentuate the separation of church and state. The structure of Islam as a religio-political system no doubt does permit such a view.”
Iqbal not only considered a modern secular democracy to be compatible with Islam , he in fact idealized it ...

that is a mistake. The separation of state and religion is a 'mistake' according to Iqbal's understanding. Following is how Iqbal views the Turkish experience in the lecture you have used as your reference:

Passing on to Turkey, we find that the idea of Ijtihād, reinforced and broadened by modern philosophical ideas, has long been working in the religious and political thought of the Turkish nation. ... If the renaissance of Islam is a fact, and I believe it is a fact, we too one day, like the Turks, will have to re-evaluate our intellectual inheritance.

I now proceed to give you some idea of religio-political thought in Turkey which will indicate to you how the power of Ijtihādis manifested in recent thought and activity in that country. ... With these thinkers religion as such has no independent function. The state is the essential factor in national life which determines the character and function of all other factors. They, therefore, reject old ideas about the function of State and Religion, and accentuate the separation of Church and State. Now the structure of Islam as a religio-political system, no doubt, does permit such a view, though personally I think it is a mistake to suppose that the idea of state is more dominant and rules all other ideas embodied in the system of Islam.

[…]

The truth is that the Turkish Nationalists assimilated the idea of the separation of Church and State from the history of European political ideas. Primitive Christianity was founded, not as a political or civil unit, but as a monastic order in a profane world, having nothing to do with civil affairs, and obeying the Roman authority practically in all matters. The result of this was that when the State became Christian, State and Church confronted each other as distinct powers with interminable boundary disputes between them. Such a thing could never happen in Islam; for Islam was from the very beginning a civil society, having received from the Qur’an a set of simple legal principles which, like the twelve tables of the Romans, carried, as experience subsequently proved, great potentialities of expansion and development by interpretation. The Nationalist theory of state, therefore, is misleading inasmuch as it suggests a dualism which does not exist in Islam.

[…]

We heartily welcome the liberal movement in modern Islam, but it must also be admitted that the appearance of liberal ideas in Islam constitutes also the most critical moment in the history of Islam. Liberalism has a tendency to act as a force of disintegration, and the race-idea which appears to be working in modern Islam with greater force than ever may ultimately wipe off the broad human outlook which Muslim people have imbibed from their religion. Further, our religious and political reformers in their zeal for liberalism may overstep the proper limits of reform in the absence of check on their youthful fervour. We are today passing through a period similar to that of the Protestant revolution in Europe, and the lesson which the rise and outcome of Luther’s movement teaches should not be lost on us. A careful reading of history shows that the Reformation was essentially a political movement, and the net result of it in Europe was a gradual displacement of the universal ethics of Christianity by systems of national ethics.The result of this tendency we have seen with our own eyes in the Great European War which, far from bringing any workable synthesis of the two opposing systems of ethics, has made the European situation still more intolerable. It is the duty of the leaders of the world of Islam today to understand the real meaning of what has happened in Europe, and then to move forward with self-control and a clear insight into the ultimate aims of Islam as a social polity.


Both Jinnah and Iqbal rejected Hadith as a source of law , and a shariah based on Quran only , is compatible with the modern world

This opinion is due to people confusing Fiqh with Hadith. Hadith even if of legal nature can or cannot be used as a source of legal ruling in Fiqh. The judgement requires contextualization which will then determine if the ruling is to be applied, deferred, suspended or ignored completely. This was the method of the Fiqh of Abu Hanifa especially in the matters other than worship. And iqbal is saying neither less nor more. With the passage of time the context might change such that hadith no longer remains applicable. That is why instead of rejecting the use of hadith, Iqbal calls for 'not to make any indiscriminate use' and pushes for 'a further intelligent study of the literature of traditions, if used as indicative of the spirit in which the Prophet himself interpreted his revelation, may still be of great help in understanding the life-value of the legal principles enunciated in the Quran.' Instead he makes it conditional that only 'a complete grasp of their life-value alone can eqiup us in our endeavour to reinterpret the foundational principles.' Moreover, Iqbal recognised hadith is the 'second great source of Muhammadan Law.'

Following is Iqbal understanding of the 'four accepted source of Muhammadan Law' where he once again states, "the Quran considers it necessary to unite religion and state, ethic and politics in a single revelation ..."

when we study the four accepted sources of Muhammadan Law and the controversies which they invoked, the supposed rigidity of our recognized schools evaporates and the possibility of a further evolution becomes perfectly clear. Let us briefly discuss these sources.

a) The Qur’an.The primary source of the Law of Islam is the Qur’an. The Qur’an, however, is not a legal code. Its main purpose, as I have said before, is to awaken in man the higher consciousness of his relation with God and the universe.No doubt, the Qur’an does lay down a few general principles and rules of a legal nature, especially relating to the family– the ultimate basis of social life. But why are these rules made part of a revelation the ultimate aim of which is man’s higher life? The answer to this question is furnished by the history of Christianity which appeared as a powerful reaction against the spirit of legality manifested in Judaism. By setting up an ideal of other-worldliness it no doubt did succeed in spiritualizing life, but its individualism could see no spiritual value in the complexity of human social relations. “Primitive Christianity”, says Naumann in hisBriefe über Religion, “attached no value to the preservation of the State, law, organization, production. It simply does not reflect on the conditions of human society.” And Naumann concludes: “Hence we either dare to aim at being without a state, and thus throwing ourselves deliberately into the arms of anarchy, or we decide to possess, alongside of our religious creed, a political creed as well.” Thus the Qur’an considers it necessary to unite religion and state, ethics and politics in a single revelation much in the same way as Plato does in hisRepublic.

[…]

b) The Hadīth. The second great source of Muhammadan Law is the traditions of the Holy Prophet.

[…]

we must distinguish traditions of a purely legal import from those which are of a non-legal character. With regard to the former, there arises a very important question as to how far they embody the pre-Islamic usages of Arabia which were in some cases left intact, and in others modified by the Prophet. It is difficult to make this discovery, for our early writers do not always refer to pre-Islamic usages. Nor is it possible to discover that usages, left intact by express or tacit approval of the Prophet, were intended to be universal in their application. Shāh Wall Allāh has a very illuminating discussion on the point. I reproduce here the substance of his view. The prophetic method of teaching, according to Shāh Wall Allāh, is that, generally speaking, the law revealed by a prophet takes especial notice of the habits, ways, and peculiarities of the people to whom he is specifically sent. The prophet who aims at all-embracing principles, however, can neither reveal different principles for different peoples, nor leaves them to work out their own rules of conduct. His method is to train one particular people, and to use them as a nucleus for the building up of a universal Sharī‘ah. In doing so he accentuates the principles underlying the social life of all mankind, and applies them to concrete cases in the light of the specific habits of the people immediately before him. The Sharī‘ah values (Ahkām) resulting from this application (e.g. rules relating to penalties for crimes) are in a sense specific to that people; and since their observance is not an end in itself they cannot be strictly enforced in the case of future generations.It was perhaps in view of this that Abū Hanīfah, who had a keen insight into the universal character of Islam, made practically no use of these traditions. The fact that he introduced the principle ofIstihsān, i.e. juristic preference, which necessitates a careful study of actual conditions in legal thinking, throws further light on the motives which determined his attitude towards this source of Muhammadan Law.

[…]

the attitude of Abū Hanīfah towards the traditions of a purely legal import is to my mind perfectly sound; and if modern Liberalism considers it safer not to make any indiscriminate use of them as a source of law, it will be only following one of the greatest exponents of Muhammadan Law in Sunnī Islam. It is, however, impossible to deny the fact that the traditionists, by insisting on the value of the concrete case as against the tendency to abstract thinking in law, have done the greatest service to the Law of Islam. And a further intelligent study of the literature of traditions, if used as indicative of the spirit in which the Prophet himself interpreted his Revelation, may still be of great help in understanding the life-value of the legal principles enunciated in the Qur’an. A complete grasp of their life-value alone can equip us in our endeavour to reinterpret the foundational principles.

c) The Ijmā‘.The third source of Muhammadan Law isIjmā‘ which is, in my opinion, perhaps the most important legal notion in Islam.

[…]

The growth of republican spirit and the gradual formation of legislative assemblies in Muslim lands constitute a great step in advance. The transfer of the power ofIjtihād from individual representatives of schools to a Muslim legislative assembly which, in view of the growth of opposing sects, is the only possible formIjmā‘ can take in modern times …

[…]

One more question may be asked as to the legislative activity of a modern Muslim assembly which must consist, at least for the present, mostly of men possessing no knowledge of the subtleties of Muhammadan Law. Such an assembly may make grave mistakes in their interpretation of law. How can we exclude or at least reduce the possibilities of erroneous interpretation? The Persian constitution of 1906 provided a separate ecclesiastical committee of Ulema– “conversant with the affairs of the world”– having power to supervise the legislative activity of the Mejliss. … But whatever may be the Persian constitutional theory, the arrangement is not free from danger, and may be tried, if at all, only as a temporary measure in Sunnī countries. The Ulema should form a vital part of a Muslim legislative assembly helping and guiding free discussion on questions relating to law. The only effective remedy for the possibilities of erroneous interpretations is to reform the present system of legal education in Muhammadan countries, to extend its sphere, and to combine it with an intelligent study of modern jurisprudence.

d) The Qiyās. The fourth basis of Fiqh isQiyās, i.e. the use of analogical reasoning in legislation. In view of different social and agricultural conditions prevailing in the countries conquered by Islam, the school of Abū Hanīfah seem to have found, on the whole, little or no guidance from the precedents recorded in the literature of traditions. The only alternative open to them was to resort to speculative reason in their interpretations.

[…]

Thus the school of Abū Hanīfah which fully assimilated the results of this controversy is absolutely free in its essential principle and possesses much greater power of creative adaptation than any other school of Muhammadan Law. But, contrary to the spirit of his own school, the modern Hanafī legist has eternalized the interpretations of the founder or his immediate followers much in the same way as the early critics of Abū Hanīfah eternalized the decisions given on concrete cases. Properly understood and applied, the essential principle of this school, i.e.Qiyās, as Shāfi‘ī rightly says, is only another name for Ijtihād which, within the limits of the revealed texts, is absolutely free.
 
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We may have our own understanding of "reinterpretation of Shariah" , but the points is , what did our founding fathers want and what was their understanding of this "reinterpretation" .... Both Jinnah and Iqbal rejected Hadith as a source of law , and a shariah based on Quran only , is compatible with the modern world .. And that is what I have been saying in all my posts (on this thread) ... Conservatives quote Jinnah`s speeches when he talks about Islam , but then very conveniently replace his definition of Islam with their own , hence all the confusion ..... How Jinnah and Iqbal understood Islam , is in fact "Kufr" by Mullahs` definition ...


Was good to have a decent discussion. Take care too


Sometimes I feel that we should update the list of founding fathers and include Dr. Asad (Leopold Wiess) alongwith Jinnah and Iqbal.

D.r Assad had a huge impact on both Jinnah and Iqbal, sort of how Ben Franklin impacted Jefferson, Madison, and Washington.
 
how interesting that we both are right. The book I have been referring to all this time is the second edition (2010).

So here is the summary .. A UK based Pakistani woman , Saleena Kareem (a graduate in human biology), gets interested in history "accidentally" ... She writes a book in 2005 claiming to expose "Munir`s big hoax" ... A few years later she realizes that the origins of "munir quote" were not in Jinnah and Zia (1979) as she had always believed , but in some other source ... She writes the second edition clarifying this mistake ... Quite understandably , Her book was an average attempt and failed to impress serious readers . She based her book on a "wrong presumption" ... Munir Quote is not the only source that tells us that Jinnah wanted a modern state ... Not even the most significant one ... End of Story ...

Fatima Jinnah writes in "My Brother" : "I can recall many occasions after independence when he (Jinnah) spoke to me about his anxiety that a new constitution should be framed, which would be liberal, and ensure fundamental freedoms to the people of Pakistan"

In a paper prepared by Amir Ahmed Khan, the Raja of Mahmoodabad (who was like a nephew to Jinnah and would unfailingly stay with him in Bombay for at least three months every year) in 1967 for a conference on Partition in London he disclosed that Jinnah “thoroughly disapproved” his “advocacy of an Islamic state.” And he asked him to refrain from expressing such views from “the League platform, lest the people might be led to believe that Jinnah shared my views and that he was asking me to convey such ideas to the public.” In the same paper he concluded, “now that I look back I realise how wrong I had been,” because Jinnah rightly wanted only a homeland for the Muslims, not an Islamic state.

Iskander Mirza wrote: "Before we all left Delhi, I said to the Quaid-i-Azam one day, "Sir, we are all agreed to go to Pakistan; but what kind of polity are you going to have? Are you going to have an Islamic State?" "Nonsense," he replied, "I am going to have a modern State."

A lot of references can be made here , the most imp. one being his address to the constituent assembly on Aug 11 1947 .. Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a modern , liberal and progressive democratic state and he believed that the idea of having a secular democracy was not contradictory to the basic teachings of Holy Quran ..


that is a mistake. The separation of state and religion is a 'mistake' according to Iqbal's understanding. Following is how Iqbal views the Turkish experience in the lecture you have used as your reference:

You have misunderstood him most probably ... Nowhere did he say that "separation of state and religion" is a mistake .. What he is saying is that (in his opinion) the Nationalist Party thinkers are mistaken as for them "The point of supreme interest is above all the State and not Religion .... and religion as such has no independent function" ... He has criticized them for assimilating this idea from west , but At the same time he says ".. the structure of Islam as a religio-political system, no doubt, does permit such a view " ........ So in Iqbal`s opinion , even the western secularism is not "unislamic" !!!

Iqbal was not against separation of state and church , he was against the "western secularism" which discarded religion completely .. Iqbal argues that , unlike christianity , Reformation (including separation of state and religion) is possible in Islam , while remaining within the parameters defined in Quran .. He agrees with what the Religious Reform Party of Turkey believed in :

The Religious Reform Party, on the other hand, led by Sa‘īd Halīm Pāshā, insisted on the fundamental fact that Islam is a harmony of idealism and positivism........ The only alternative open to us, then, is to tear off from Islam the hard crust which has immobilized an essentially dynamic outlook on life, and to rediscover the original verities of freedom, equality, and solidarity with a view to rebuild our moral, social, and political ideals out of their original simplicity and universality.

And here is what Iqbal concludes :
" You will see that following a line of thought more in tune with the spirit of Islam, he(Said Halim Pasha) reaches practically the same conclusion as the Nationalist Party, that is to say, the freedom of Ijtihād with a view to rebuild the laws of Sharī‘ah in the light of modern thought and experience."

Iqbal then goes on to say :

The truth is that among the Muslim nations of today, Turkey alone has shaken off its dogmatic slumber, and attained to self-consciousness. She alone has claimed her right of intellectual freedom; she alone has passed from the ideal to the real– a transition which entails keen intellectual and moral struggle


This opinion is due to people confusing Fiqh with Hadith. Hadith even if of legal nature can or cannot be used as a source of legal ruling in Fiqh. The judgement requires contextualization which will then determine if the ruling is to be applied, deferred, suspended or ignored completely. This was the method of the Fiqh of Abu Hanifa especially in the matters other than worship. And iqbal is saying neither less nor more. With the passage of time the context might change such that hadith no longer remains applicable. That is why instead of rejecting the use of hadith, Iqbal calls for 'not to make any indiscriminate use' and pushes for 'a further intelligent study of the literature of traditions, if used as indicative of the spirit in which the Prophet himself interpreted his revelation, may still be of great help in understanding the life-value of the legal principles enunciated in the Quran.' Instead he makes it conditional that only 'a complete grasp of their life-value alone can eqiup us in our endeavour to reinterpret the foundational principles.' Moreover, Iqbal recognised hadith is the 'second great source of Muhammadan Law.'
Following is Iqbal understanding of the 'four accepted source of Muhammadan Law' where he once again states, "the Quran considers it necessary to unite religion and state, ethic and politics in a single revelation ..."

Sir , did you miss this :

The question which confronts him (Turkey) today, and which is likely to confront other Muslim countries in the near future is whether the Law of Islam is capable of evolution– a question which will require great intellectual effort, and is sure to be answered in the affirmative, provided the world of Islam approaches it in the spirit of ‘Umar– the first critical and independent mind in Islam who, at the last moments of the Prophet, had the moral courage to utter these remarkable words: “The Book of God is sufficient for us.”

We all know that Umer r.a strictly forbade narrating Hadith and would punish anyone who tried to do so ..!! The matter of fact is , Iqbal didn`t believe in deriving laws from Hadith ... He believed that Quran is the only source of law for all Muslims ... "Book of Allah is sufficient for us" .... Iqbal was a rejector of Hadith (as per Mullah definition) ... He had been very careful in selection of words as he himself says : "Unfortunately, the conservative Muslim public of this country is not yet quite ready for a critical discussion of Fiqh, which, if undertaken, is likely to displease most people, and raise sectarian controversies; yet I venture to offer a few remarks on the point before us...... ", but he has made his pov absolutely clear in "Reconstruction of religious thought in Islam"

And here is a very good article that explains Iqbal`s views on Hadith :

IQBAL AND HADITH
 
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