Bell 412EP - Update

[Arsalan]

but the AW-139s are also sanction prone just as the Bell, and with a price tag of about 20Million$!

if we want to build up a reliable source, china is the option.
moreover Mi-17 are also a good option as they are being used all across the glob and spares are being produced and can be procured from a number of different sources specially now with china reported to enter Mi-17 producction.

China to Export Mi-17 Transport Helicopters to Pakistan

A manufacturing plant in southwest China has started to assemble Russian-designed Mi-17 transport helicopters, one of Russia's key arms exports, the Russian business daily Vedomosti said.

China plans to build at least 20 helicopters in 2008 with assembly kits supplied by a Russian plant in Ulan-Ude and later increase production capacity to 80 aircraft per year.

"We consider this project as the beginning of a trend to assembly Russian helicopters in China," the newspaper quoted a source in Oboronprom, which controls Russian Helicopters, a helicopter manufacturing group.

Mi-17 is an export version of the Mi-8 Hip helicopter, which is currently in production at two factories in Kazan and Ulan-Ude, fitted with more powerful turboshaft engines.

According to Vedomosti, the Lantian Helicopter Company, based in Sichuan province, has already received orders worth $42.8 million.

"The Chinese are planning to export [Mi-17] helicopters to Pakistan and Africa, which may hurt Russian exports," the source said.

In 2007, Russian companies only built 120 Mi-171 helicopters, although they had orders for 150 aircraft, due to a shortage of transmissions and rotors, and according to estimates, there are no plans in the future to increase production for these components.

At the same time, some Russian experts believe it is better to allow the Chinese to manufacture helicopters under license rather than sit and wait until China develops its own version, modeled on Russian designs, Vedomosti said.

China starts producing Russian Mi-171 helicopters - paper | Russia | RIA Novosti

from:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ort-mi-17-transport-helicopters-pakistan.html

regards!

 

[fatman17]

13x30=390

$13million is the price per aircraft INCLUDING spare and repair parts, support equipment, ferry services, air worthiness certification, publications and technical data, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor logistics, engineering, and technical support services, and other related elements of logistics support.

SH-60 unit cost varies, with the version due to the varying specifications, equipment and quantities. For example, the unit cost of the Army's UH-60L Black Hawk is $5.9 million while the unit cost of the Air Force MH-60G Pave Hawk is $10.2 million. In 2008, the unit cost of a SH-60 Blackhawk was $14million (EXCLUDING all the above extra's).

i wld have to challenge these costs - will revert!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

we really need to 'decide' what we want - we dont want to be dependent on the west (read US and sanctions) and we also dont want to be overly dependent on the east (read china and greater influence) - so what do we want to do???

Your concerns are valid, however may i offer some opinions:
About the Bell 412EPs, there is an apprehension about embargoes. Please note that the Bell 412 series flies extensively worldwide in civilian colors as well. Would be difficult if not impossible to embargo all spares and support for these choppers. Undoubtedly these are old helicopters but are quite reliable still.
The Mi-8s also are commonplace the world over. While they have serviceability issues, they are quite robust a/c and can be bashed around quite a bit.
This view is applicable at least to the short-medium term, if funding is a concern.
The long term perspective can be addressed separately.

 

[Zulfiqar]

Well i am not asking for a big order, small orders, which we can pay.

We already have 5-6 AW-139s, thus we can order them in 4-5 helicopter batches, and have a force of 20-25 helicopters within 4-5 years time.

Build this helicopter force slowly, since we have other platform in servic

That can be one option but there must be a reason behind the recent Bell 412 order.

 

[fatman17]

That can be one option but there must be a reason behind the recent Bell 412 order.

well it, the 412 is a versatile platform which has / is serving the army well during the ongoing ops.

 

[Zulfiqar]

Well, Sir i know that. What i wanted to imply was that army has placed the order after carefully analyzing all the pros and cons.

 

[Arsalan]

Well, Sir i know that. What i wanted to imply was that army has placed the order after carefully analyzing all the pros and cons.

it surely would have.
there are somtimes deal that look stupid to us but be sure that are some real brains behinde the procurements and they have a good reason for there choice!
moreover, the Bell $12 is not one of those stupid looking deals by any means.
they are serving us good in ongoing ops as Sir fatman suggested, are being upgraded to take MG and pocket pods, perhaps do have Nigh vision (neeed to confirm on that), are supposedly purchased partially of military aid funds given by US.
all in all, it is a great deal!

yes we do need to look for some other options as well from some reliable source as well but this do not decrease the importance of 412 choppers!

regards!
regards!

 

[Stealth_fighter]

how many bell 412 PA have as of now and how many more to come?

 

[fatman17]

how many bell 412 PA have as of now and how many more to come?

original order = 26
attrition = 2
new order/delivered = 2
new order / to be delivered = 30

total = 56

 

[fatman17]

in a ideal situation the PAA would like to have a front-line inventory of

60 - cobras (F/Z)
60 - bells
60 - Mi-17s

the puma's will be retired once the Mi-17 quantities are ramped up.
communication/vip/logistic/SAR types will be additional.

 

[Arsalan]

in a ideal situation the PAA would like to have a front-line inventory of

60 - cobras (F/Z)
60 - bells
60 - Mi-17s

the puma's will be retired once the Mi-17 quantities are ramped up.
communication/vip/logistic/SAR types will be additional.

sir can you please confirm that there is something really going on as far as Cobra Z variant deal is concerned.
i am really looking forward to this one as it will be a reall boast for PA aviation but cannot confirm this news from any reliable channel.
do you personally have some updated regarding this one??

regards!

 

[Penguin]

i wld have to challenge these costs - will revert!

A 412EP with not service, spares, etc. can be had on the open market for about $8 million.

June 3/09: Bell Helicopter Textron in Hurst, TX received a $51.5 million firm-fixed-price contract for the purchase of 5 Bell 412EP helicopters, along with logistics support, spare parts, special tools, and training. According to a Bell Helicopter spokesman, these helicopters are a Foreign Military Sale to Mexico, per the March 13/09 DSCA notification.

Mexico Ordering Bell 412EPs

COSTS: US$20.25 million (1992) USN programme unit cost. Flyaway cost of final USN SH-60B about US$16 million; total MH-60R development programme costs expected to be around US$400 million, with unit flyaway cost quoted as US$16 million to US$18 million (FY96 dollars) for remanufactured aircraft and slightly more for new-build examples.

Sikorsky SH-60B "Sea Hawk" helicopter - development history, photos, technical data