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BBC: Why are India's air force planes falling out of the sky?

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Why are India's air force planes falling out of the sky?
16 October 2014
_78252353_78252352.jpg

Sukhoi 30 planes belonging to India's air force fly in formation with a Globemaster III

All air forces have accidents, but accounts of Indian warplanes crashing on training flights have become almost routine news.

The latest incident came earlier this week, when a Russian-made Sukhoi-30 crashed in eastern India - both pilots surviving after ejecting for unspecified reasons.

All five crew died in March this year on a training flight in their US-made Hercules transport aircraft.

'Flying coffin'

But it is the Russian-made aircraft that form the backbone of the Indian fleet which have been the most accident-prone. The MiG jet in particular has become known as the "flying coffin" or the "widow maker".

Two years ago, India's then defence minister told an astonished parliament that more than half the 872 MiGs it had purchased from Russia had been lost in accidents, at a cost of over 200 lives.

Apparently, pilots regularly complain that some MiG models land too fast and that the design of the window canopy means they can't see the runway properly.

The Indian air force has gradually been retiring the older planes - some dating back to the 1960s.

Yet only this month the air force chief warned the delay in introducing replacements was putting India's security at risk as parts of the fleet were on "their last legs".

_78252516_78252464.jpg

A MiG-21 jet crashed into this building in Rajasthan in 2002

A destroyed two-story Bank of Rajasthan buidling is seen on fire near Jullundur, India, Friday May 3, 2002, after an Indian Air Force MiG-21 jet crashed into the building.

Meanwhile, India's regional rival China continues to leap ahead in both spending and firepower.

Indian-designed warplanes have so far not been up to the job. But more than two years since a deal was signed to buy 126 Rafale fighters from France, the bargaining goes on.

Some say it's not what India needs though.

If it does eventually buy French, that will only worsen matters, warns Delhi-based defence analyst Bharat Karnad.

"We have a diversity problem," he says, referring to the wide variety of planes the air force already uses, "making it much harder to keep training and maintenance up to standard".

The Russians have also been accused of being tardy with supplies of spare parts. India - now the world's largest arms importer - is increasingly turning to the West for its weapons. The US is now its number one supplier.

Yet Mr Karnad fears Western nations will hold up critical spare parts and support "as a means of political leverage on India", something he believes the Russians are less prone to do.

But it's not just the air force that has a problem with its gear.

Just yesterday [Tuesday], a former Indian navy chief lashed out at defence ministry as "so dysfunctional" he couldn't even order "a set of batteries" for his submarines.

Admiral DK Joshi made headlines last year after resigning following a series of submarine accidents that left 18 sailors dead. As it happens, the vessels involved were also Russian-made.

The new Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, partly won office on the back of hopes he will put India on course to becoming a superpower and has promised to modernise the military.

But it's an old challenge, says retired navy officer Uday Bhaskar. "Finding the solution is something that's eluded every Indian leader until now."

bbc com/news/world-asia-india-29639897
 
Why are India's air force planes falling out of the sky?
16 October 2014
_78252353_78252352.jpg

Sukhoi 30 planes belonging to India's air force fly in formation with a Globemaster III

All air forces have accidents, but accounts of Indian warplanes crashing on training flights have become almost routine news.

The latest incident came earlier this week, when a Russian-made Sukhoi-30 crashed in eastern India - both pilots surviving after ejecting for unspecified reasons.

All five crew died in March this year on a training flight in their US-made Hercules transport aircraft.

'Flying coffin'

But it is the Russian-made aircraft that form the backbone of the Indian fleet which have been the most accident-prone. The MiG jet in particular has become known as the "flying coffin" or the "widow maker".

Two years ago, India's then defence minister told an astonished parliament that more than half the 872 MiGs it had purchased from Russia had been lost in accidents, at a cost of over 200 lives.

Apparently, pilots regularly complain that some MiG models land too fast and that the design of the window canopy means they can't see the runway properly.

The Indian air force has gradually been retiring the older planes - some dating back to the 1960s.

Yet only this month the air force chief warned the delay in introducing replacements was putting India's security at risk as parts of the fleet were on "their last legs".

_78252516_78252464.jpg

A MiG-21 jet crashed into this building in Rajasthan in 2002

A destroyed two-story Bank of Rajasthan buidling is seen on fire near Jullundur, India, Friday May 3, 2002, after an Indian Air Force MiG-21 jet crashed into the building.

Meanwhile, India's regional rival China continues to leap ahead in both spending and firepower.

Indian-designed warplanes have so far not been up to the job. But more than two years since a deal was signed to buy 126 Rafale fighters from France, the bargaining goes on.

Some say it's not what India needs though.

If it does eventually buy French, that will only worsen matters, warns Delhi-based defence analyst Bharat Karnad.

"We have a diversity problem," he says, referring to the wide variety of planes the air force already uses, "making it much harder to keep training and maintenance up to standard".

The Russians have also been accused of being tardy with supplies of spare parts. India - now the world's largest arms importer - is increasingly turning to the West for its weapons. The US is now its number one supplier.

Yet Mr Karnad fears Western nations will hold up critical spare parts and support "as a means of political leverage on India", something he believes the Russians are less prone to do.

But it's not just the air force that has a problem with its gear.

Just yesterday [Tuesday], a former Indian navy chief lashed out at defence ministry as "so dysfunctional" he couldn't even order "a set of batteries" for his submarines.

Admiral DK Joshi made headlines last year after resigning following a series of submarine accidents that left 18 sailors dead. As it happens, the vessels involved were also Russian-made.

The new Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, partly won office on the back of hopes he will put India on course to becoming a superpower and has promised to modernise the military.

But it's an old challenge, says retired navy officer Uday Bhaskar. "Finding the solution is something that's eluded every Indian leader until now."

bbc com/news/world-asia-india-29639897
What a disgusting misrepresentation of facts and a dubious (at best) analysis.


In 2012-13 the IAF 0.22 crashes per 10,000 flight hours, amongst the lowest crash rates of any AF anywhere on this planet. The figures for 2013-14 haven't been released yet but there wasn't a significant jump in the span of 12 months so last year's crash rate is also likely to be relatively low.

The issue is that any crashes in India (due to the "flying coffin" saga involving the MiG-21s) receive disproportionate and sensationalist coverage from the Indian media (and apparently now the foreign media). Also note that the IAF is one of the largest AFs in the world operating vast numbers of fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft (many of them well past their originally dictated life spans) so the number of crashes will always be high and certain "journalists" will continue to fail to take this into account.


I'll state again- the crash RATE in the IAF is nowhere near the highest in the world and WILL be coming down further as the older a/c in the fleet are replaced more and more aggressively in the coming years...

Anyway this is only the 5TH Su-30MKI crash in 17-12 years (whichever way you want to look at it) and the IAF operates over 200 of these birds with a further 70+ on order (by far the largest Su-30MK series fleet anywhere in the world) which isn't bad going considering the MKI pilots log over 250 flight hours on their birds every year (some of the highest flight hours any pilot in any AF)- another fact ignored by these spiteful/ignorant "journalists".



Feels like a sales pitch more than anything else though.



The BBC certainly has sunk to new levels of pettiness I hope as many Indians as possible complain to the BBC about this article like they did with that racist NYT Mars-Mission cartoon and get a similar result.
 
Indian-designed warplanes have so far not been up to the job. But more than two years since a deal was signed to buy 126 Rafale fighters from France, the bargaining goes on.

& how dare India reject Eurofighter Typhoon :p:

@Abingdonboy : Would be interesting to know if some people are still sulking (especially in UK) after Rafale won. I recall one of ur earlier posts today and as you noted that crash rates in IAF are one of the lowest in the world. So BBc coming up with such stories, seem to have some other agenda.
 
& how dare India reject Eurofighter Typhoon :p:

@Abingdonboy : Would be interesting to know if some people are still sulking (especially in UK) after Rafale won. I recall one of ur earlier posts today and as you noted that crash rates in IAF are one of the lowest in the world. So BBc coming up with such stories, seem to have some other agenda.
As much as it saddens me to say (I used to be a big fan of the BBC) it certainly seems there is some not-so-covert frustration with the IAF vis a vis their selection of the Rafale fuelling this all. I very much doubt had the EFT come out L1 that we would have seen an article as venomous as this one directed at the IAF and one so full of inaccuracies and sensationalism.

By the way- India has signed NOTHING with France/Dassualt regarding the Rafale so that is a blatant LIE.
 
Crashes are going to become less frequent due to the following developments:

Pilatus stage 1 trainer

Hawk AJT

Phasing out of old jets

Obviously the MMRCA purchase has taken far too long, just like the AJT purchase, and this has cost many lives.
 
It is because indian air force is no way near the professional level of world class air forces like IDAF (Israeli Air Force), PAF (Pakistan Air Force), USAF (United States Air Force), and RAF (United Kingdom Royal Air Force) etc.

indian air force is big..bulky...slow...force with bureaucratic burden, corruption, and incompetence.

Facts speak for themselves.

PAF is operating F-16s for over 34 years now! How many crashes?

PAF's latest JF-17 Thunder has done 15,000 flight hours+ and only one crashed (that too, due to human error of ground staff)...

I wish Pakistan and india were friends...We would love to train indian pilots and ground staff so there is no loss of life in india.
 
It is because indian air force is no way near the professional level of world class air forces like IDAF (Israeli Air Force), PAF (Pakistan Air Force), USAF (United States Air Force), and RAF (United Kingdom Royal Air Force) etc.

indian air force is big..bulky...slow...force with bureaucratic burden, corruption, and incompetence.

Facts speak for themselves.

Okay. Now move on.
 
it is because those fucking Britain drawed the Mcmahone line that make China and India can't live in peace. now they try to promote the fighters by taking China as threat.

GTFO you looters.
 
Ooops.... Bbc did it again.. Now sit back n enjoy the show these guys are going to put on.. :pop:
 
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