Barak 8 Advanced Version ?

[Nilgiri]

Anything written by a poster here should be taken with a pinch of salt as many of them tend to be biased. However if you read from a post with proper references or external article that's another story altogether.

Here is a comparison of Kolkata with Type 52D which only tells about 16.

Its 16. Reloading VLS at sea is notoriously dangerous given the relative Vr requirements...US Navy has attempted a few times during cold war and the results were not good (And have never since sought to brought it into naval SOP). You might want to read:

https://blog.usni.org/2015/07/30/vls-at-sea-reloading

@Penguin can provide some insight

 

[Farhan Bohra]

There is a test of Barak 8 Conducted in India. As you know Barak 8 is a missile developed by India and Israel togather. Which have potential to distroy and find target in air. How advanced in the newly tested virson, what you all peoples think about this missile and its power ?

Thats not Advanced Version.

There are 2 versions: One of Navy and Other of IAF.

 

[Aero]

Reloading VLS at sea is notoriously dangerous given the relative Vr requirements.

I was also on same page. In any battle reloading will not be a good idea & in battles you will probably need to reload. As for single attack they can fire missile & move to safe location.

the Barak 8 will intercept a missile every time it will be launched, the amount you have is the amount you will intercept.

We are kind of discussing a scenario where overwhelming no. of supersonic cruise missile are launched at an important target.
I agree Barak 8 is very good & accurate but 100% accuracy will not be practical because there always will be factors to hinder performance. What you think?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Is this supposed to be the only answer to Brahmos currently, especially in the China _ India theater?

Some analysis:

here is one specific missile which has been designed from scratch to shoot down BrahMos. It’s the Indo-Israeli Barak-8 SAM. This missile was primarily developed by Israel to equip its warships to protect them from the Yakhont missiles which its neighbor was procuring. Israeli ships carried only short range SAMs and didn’t have modern radars capable of handling a dedicated attack by its enemies using Yakhont missiles. The answer to this problem was the extremely agile and accurate Barak-8which packed the best available technology into a medium sized missile. With a max range of 90+ km, it operates in conjunction with the MF-STAR radar which can detect sea skimming missiles at 30-35 km range. It combined a medium range and short range missile into one missile, having a minimum engagement range of just 300 m and max of 90+ km. There are claims that a single Barak-8 can stop a BrahMos as close as 500 m from a ship. One of the reasons behind the claims is that the Barak-8 is very accurate and has an active homing radar seeker, which enables the ship to technically forget about the missile after its launch and the missile finds the target on its own although the ship does provide guidance and mid-course updates. Since the Barak-8 can have a continuous lock on the incoming missile with its own radar and the MF-STAR can guide 24 Barak-8 missiles to 12 targets simultaneously, the saturation limit for a Kolkata class destroyer against the BrahMos stands at 12 missiles. This however is a contradiction in itself as the Kolkata class carries the BrahMos as well as the Barak-8. This means that the Indian Navy deploys the poison and the antidote on the same platform

https://defencyclopedia.com/2014/12...vy-can-shoot-down-the-deadly-brahmos-missile/

 

[Beny Karachun]

I was also on same page. In any battle reloading will not be a good idea & in battles you will probably need to reload. As for single attack they can fire missile & move to safe location.


We are kind of discussing a scenario where overwhelming no. of supersonic cruise missile are launched at an important target.
I agree Barak 8 is very good & accurate but 100% accuracy will not be practical because there always will be factors to hinder performance. What you think?

It have a 99% accuracy, nothing is certain but everything is possible.
I don't know, maybe it will hit a seagull or something, but it will hit any missile.

 

[Iurii Borysov]

Yes, That's what is important in technology. I was researching on the redar technique and fire techniques to find target they are best if used proper. They hit target with atlist 80 to 90 % accuracy as I heard ?

I had one more question, Does India and Israel have missile destroyer techniques ? As you know its important for every country defense plan today to have tools which should destroy opponents attacks in air. I heard a news about Russia Defense minister Yuri Borisov in Pk forum here. Which say Indian and Russia are building some ? thoughts.

Thats not Advanced Version.

There are 2 versions: One of Navy and Other of IAF.

Thanks for the correction Mate!! I just posted what I heard in news.

I agree Barak 8 is very good & accurate but 100% accuracy will not be practical because there always will be factors to hinder performance. What you think?

yes, you are right, There are many ways to cheat it I think. I too don't doubt its well advanced and have most advance technique to find target.

 

[Natan]

I had one more question, Does India and Israel have missile destroyer techniques ? As you know its important for every country defense plan today to have tools which should destroy opponents attacks in air.

I guess, you mean missile defense?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David's_Sling

 

[Iurii Borysov]

yes, I mean that Thanks for the info, I found The United States, Russia, France, India and Israel have all developed missile defense systems.

 

[jha]

Yes, That's what is important in technology. I was researching on the redar technique and fire techniques to find target they are best if used proper. They hit target with atlist 80 to 90 % accuracy as I heard ?

I had one more question, Does India and Israel have missile destroyer techniques ? As you know its important for every country defense plan today to have tools which should destroy opponents attacks in air. I heard a news about Russia Defense minister Yuri Borisov in Pk forum here. Which say Indian and Russia are building some ? thoughts.



Thanks for the correction Mate!! I just posted what I heard in news.




yes, you are right, There are many ways to cheat it I think. I too don't doubt its well advanced and have most advance technique to find target.

India has an active program for Missile defence. While importing some systems (S-400 from Russia and probably David's Sling from Israel) and co-developing some systems ( BARAK series with Israel ), India is developing three different Air-defence systems against Missiles. They are being tested and results have been satisfacotry.

 

[Penguin]

Some analysis:

here is one specific missile which has been designed from scratch to shoot down BrahMos. It’s the Indo-Israeli Barak-8 SAM. This missile was primarily developed by Israel to equip its warships to protect them from the Yakhont missiles which its neighbor was procuring. Israeli ships carried only short range SAMs and didn’t have modern radars capable of handling a dedicated attack by its enemies using Yakhont missiles. The answer to this problem was the extremely agile and accurate Barak-8which packed the best available technology into a medium sized missile. With a max range of 90+ km, it operates in conjunction with the MF-STAR radar which can detect sea skimming missiles at 30-35 km range. It combined a medium range and short range missile into one missile, having a minimum engagement range of just 300 m and max of 90+ km. There are claims that a single Barak-8 can stop a BrahMos as close as 500 m from a ship. One of the reasons behind the claims is that the Barak-8 is very accurate and has an active homing radar seeker, which enables the ship to technically forget about the missile after its launch and the missile finds the target on its own although the ship does provide guidance and mid-course updates. Since the Barak-8 can have a continuous lock on the incoming missile with its own radar and the MF-STAR can guide 24 Barak-8 missiles to 12 targets simultaneously, the saturation limit for a Kolkata class destroyer against the BrahMos stands at 12 missiles. This however is a contradiction in itself as the Kolkata class carries the BrahMos as well as the Barak-8. This means that the Indian Navy deploys the poison and the antidote on the same platform

https://defencyclopedia.com/2014/12/27/explained-how-the-us-navy-can-shoot-down-the-deadly-brahmos-missile/

The above assumes 2 missiles per target, for high probability of kill

"Barak 8 features a dual pulse rocket motor as well as thrust vector control, and possesses high degrees of maneuverability at target interception range. A second motor [pulse] is fired during the terminal phase, at which stage the active radar seeker is activated to home in on to the enemy track."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak_8

I.e. the limit of 12 target only applies in a scenario in which every target gets 2 missiles assigned and to the extent that those 24 missiles have not yet independently acquired their target.

As soon a a missile activates its own radar and starts homing independently on the assigned target, there is room for MF-STAR to start guiding in another missile. So, in that sense, and considering the range at which Barak-8 can start enginging, the system can handle many more targets than just 12.

At least, this is my understanding.

 

[DavidSling]

I guess, you mean missile defense?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David's_Sling

Arrow 3
Arrow 2
David Sling
Iron Dome
Iron Beam

Another interceptors
Barak 8/1
Iron Fist APS
Trophy APS

https://defence.pk/threads/israel-defense-forces-current-and-future-interceptors.408299/

 

[Penguin]

i read somewhere another 16 will be there and would be reloaded. so it might totally carry 32 missiles!!!??

Reloaded how and where from? At sea? Nah.

A) on board magazine + on board crane > why bother with this when you can install another 16 vl cells with ready to fire in less than the space needed for the magazine and crane. (not to mention the difficulty of moving around a 3 ton - 3000 kg! - missile on board a ship while at sea)
B) off board magazine and crane > this would require hoisting that 3 tons missile from e.g. a replenishment oiler onto an destroyer while at sea and then putting it upright and sinking it into an opened vlu cell. The diameter of which is about 0,6 or 0,7 m. And both ships would be moving simultaneously in 3 dimensions, even if they managed to hold steady side by side at a given speed and distance from one another..

Check WMO Sea State Code
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_state#World_Meteorological_Organization_sea_state_code

 

[Iurii Borysov]

India has an active program for Missile defence. While importing some systems (S-400 from Russia and probably David's Sling from Israel) and co-developing some systems ( BARAK series with Israel ), India is developing three different Air-defence systems against Missiles. They are being tested and results have been satisfacotry.

Jha, I was reading a Dawn story which say "Some Russian Official confirmed. Despite paying too much budget for s-400. India may not be able to defend itself from some resins of Pakistan.

“Even in 10 years and with the huge budgets that India plans to spend on the development of nuclear weapons and capabilities, it is difficult to imagine it will be able to defend its territory from possible strikes from Pakistan in case of conflict,” said Petr Topychkanov, a senior researcher at the Carnegie Moscow Centre’s Non-Proliferation Programme.

Talking about ‘Non-Proliferation and Strategic Stability in South Asia: A Russian Perspective’ at the Strategic Vision Institute (SIV) which is an Islamabad-based think tank specialising in nuclear issues, Mr Topychkanov said that despite largescale cooperation between India and Israel for the development of a ballistic missile defence system and Indian efforts for acquiring S-400 defence systems from Russia, “India is very far from developing any system that could effectively defend itself from a Pakistani missile”.


How true is it both Indian and Pakistan Members are here ?

 

[RISING SUN]

Jha, I was reading a Dawn story which say "Some Russian Official confirmed. Despite paying too much budget for s-400. India may not be able to defend itself from some resins of Pakistan.

“Even in 10 years and with the huge budgets that India plans to spend on the development of nuclear weapons and capabilities, it is difficult to imagine it will be able to defend its territory from possible strikes from Pakistan in case of conflict,” said Petr Topychkanov, a senior researcher at the Carnegie Moscow Centre’s Non-Proliferation Programme.

Talking about ‘Non-Proliferation and Strategic Stability in South Asia: A Russian Perspective’ at the Strategic Vision Institute (SIV) which is an Islamabad-based think tank specialising in nuclear issues, Mr Topychkanov said that despite largescale cooperation between India and Israel for the development of a ballistic missile defence system and Indian efforts for acquiring S-400 defence systems from Russia, “India is very far from developing any system that could effectively defend itself from a Pakistani missile”.


How true is it both Indian and Pakistan Members are here ?

The truth is that BMD with multi layered defence can prevent some cities to falling to nukes but not all missiles can be stopped. Still we will be able save some of our cities while some might be lost. But when you observe their BMD system, it's nil. So we will have the upper hand in dealing with nukes any time. Off-course no sane person wants a war. Hope it clarifies your doubt.

 

[Iurii Borysov]

Yes! Right Now Only Delhi and Mumbai have such option. Yes, war is not a good thing at all, Some time I believe with the name of technology we are creating a garbage. Because it will go old too, like us