Bangladesh Navy

[Bilal9]

BD doesnt have the experience to build and assemble any aircraft before, not to mention bd doesnt have any resources to backing up such complex industries. Ur statement is a wet dream at best

I'd argue (with all due respect) differently.

When Bacharuddin Jusuf Habibie founded IPTN (now called Dirgantara, Indonesia's aircraft joint venture with Spain) with Soeharto's blessings as a govt. company in 1976, Indonesia did not manufacture even motorcycles. Yet BJ succeeded in developing Indonesia into an Aircraft manufacturing powerhouse until the late 1990's. The N250 program was shelved and IPTN then fell upon hard times. Indonesia had demand for aircraft for sure - but for some reason, IPTN could not get work - except small time repair contracts and parts manufacture. This despite having quite sophisticated machines of the Cincinnati Milacron variety.

However - these days, such experience gaps can be leap-frogged with relative ease. Look at Pakistan and for a better example, look at Korea on how quickly they developed their aerospace sector. Look at the Korean copy of the Embraer Tucano, the Woongbi, which the Indonesian AF flies. This was developed in 1988.

Before the 1980's Korea could not even make copies of Mitsubishi cars, which they eventually developed into world-beating cars. The Korean govt. was in lock-step with Samsung, Lucky Goldstar (LG) and Hyundai every step of the way. They also founded the equivalent of a Defense research establishment in 1980's, which eventually developed the woongbi Turboprop trainer, a large utility heli and a small F-16 type single-engine fighter jet.

I do agree that you need to start with turboprop trainers first. Bangladesh is not at that stage of development yet where we can bring in value addition by making aircraft. Still too much competition from countries like Korea. If we make local ToT a part of the contract (like Indians have been doing since the 1960's), our aerospace sector will develop. But the ministers are too busy lining their Swiss and S'pore bank accounts to think about that. That is the last thing they think about.

However I will beg to differ if an outsider unfamiliar with local situation says Bangladesh govt. doesn't have the resources. They do.

Our Central bank reserves exceed the total yearly GDP of many African countries.

Bangladesh also has plenty (plenty!) of experienced aerospace engineers it has trained and lost overseas (brain drain), just like Dr. Habibie. Quite a few work at aerospace companies here in the States (some at Boeing).

Will they ever go back home to work in the Bangladesh aerospace sector if one develops? Can that homegrown talent be brought home? Perhaps.

What Bangladesh does not have is,

• Independent long-term developmental vision, political will or a strong 'visionary' who has the will to pull this off funding-wise instead of wasting money without developing homegrown industry.
• The situation internally to use investments efficiently - there is too much meddling by external political elements from other countries causing 'strategic' chaos and loss of momentum. We have a shameful history of foreigners walking into our country calling the shots. We allow this to happen.

The day when Bangladesh has an aerospace industry capable of indigenous manufacture is not here yet but it will arrive soon enough. Lesser countries than ours already do.

The Bangladesh Navy is already doing this with its own Shipyards making up to 650 DWT stealth patrol craft. The day when we will be making stealth frigates is entirely within reach in less than a decade.

 

[Nike]

I'd argue (with all due respect) differently.

When Bacharuddin Jusuf Habibie founded IPTN (now called Dirgantara, Indonesia's aircraft joint venture with Spain) with Soeharto's blessings as a govt. company in 1976, Indonesia did not manufacture even motorcycles. Yet BJ succeeded in developing Indonesia into an Aircraft manufacturing powerhouse until the late 1990's. The N250 program was shelved and IPTN then fell upon hard times. Indonesia had demand for aircraft for sure - but for some reason, IPTN could not get work - except small time repair contracts and parts manufacture. This despite having quite sophisticated machines of the Cincinnati Milacron variety.

However - these days, such experience gaps can be leap-frogged with relative ease. Look at Pakistan and for a better example, look at Korea on how quickly they developed their aerospace sector. Look at the Korean copy of the Embraer Tucano, the Woongbi, which the Indonesian AF flies. This was developed in 1988.

Before the 1980's Korea could not even make copies of Mitsubishi cars, which they eventually developed into world-beating cars. The Korean govt. was in lock-step with Samsung, Lucky Goldstar (LG) and Hyundai every step of the way. They also founded the equivalent of a Defense research establishment in 1980's, which eventually developed the woongbi Turboprop trainer, a large utility heli and a small F-16 type single-engine fighter jet.

I do agree that you need to start with turboprop trainers first. Bangladesh is not at that stage of development yet where we can bring in value addition by making aircraft. Still too much competition from countries like Korea. If we make local ToT a part of the contract (like Indians have been doing since the 1960's), our aerospace sector will develop. But the ministers are too busy lining their Swiss and S'pore bank accounts to think about that. That is the last thing they think about.

However I will beg to differ if an outsider unfamiliar with local situation says Bangladesh govt. doesn't have the resources. They do.

Our Central bank reserves exceed the total yearly GDP of many African countries.

Bangladesh also has plenty (plenty!) of experienced aerospace engineers it has trained and lost overseas (brain drain), just like Dr. Habibie. Quite a few work at aerospace companies here in the States (some at Boeing).

Will they ever go back home to work in the Bangladesh aerospace sector if one develops? Can that homegrown talent be brought home? Perhaps.

What Bangladesh does not have is,

• Independent long-term developmental vision, political will or a strong 'visionary' who has the will to pull this off funding-wise instead of wasting money without developing homegrown industry.
• The situation internally to use investments efficiently - there is too much meddling by external political elements from other countries causing 'strategic' chaos and loss of momentum. We have a shameful history of foreigners walking into our country calling the shots. We allow this to happen.

The day when Bangladesh has an aerospace industry capable of indigenous manufacture is not here yet but it will arrive soon enough. Lesser countries than ours already do.

The Bangladesh Navy is already doing this with its own Shipyards making up to 650 DWT stealth patrol craft. The day when we will be making stealth frigates is entirely within reach in less than a decade.

Indonesia aerospace industries can be traced far before IPTN is founded

maybe you are familiar with foker company, they had assembly line in Bandung during colonial era. And the people working for the workshop continue to do so during japanese occupation. During Soekarno era, jawatan Angkatan Udara (the name for Indonesian Air Force workshop and assembly line for aircraft production) continue the tradition by building the Pzl 2 trainer aircraft, locally known as si kumbang and signed deal with Foker company to license build some cargo aircraft. We had investing a lot in this sector since long, including building human resources with all their infrastructure (like univ, research center, production facilities and etc).

If you are looking at Korean, they first nurturing their aerospace industries first in late 60's decade by setting up workshop to assemble their license built trainer, then they move forward to build F 5 fighter in late 70's and then license built their F16 fleets. along with that they investing a lot to built such capability not just in one or two decades, but for almost five decades continuesly.

Sorry to say BD is very lack in this field and maybe u can started it right now by building license simple aircraft like turboprop trainer to nurture your industries. But dont expect them to leap forward by designing fourth gen fighter like flanker in just one decade, thats what i called near impossible task as u had to accumulate lot of experience before doing so

 

[Michael Corleone]

BD doesnt have the experience to build and assemble any aircraft before, not to mention bd doesnt have any resources to backing up such complex industries. Ur statement is a wet dream at best

I know bad has no experience over this field as they also didn't have any experience in shipbuilding a decade back. But after the establishment of the aeronautical center. A Bangladesh Air Force spokesperson talked about the possibility of a prototype of a fighter jet by 2021. This was 8 years back. There was no news since. Actually nothing about aeronautical center at all. I bet it will take more than 2021 though.

Edit:the reason I bring up su-27 derivatives because of the talks to buy that for new squadrons of aircraft and aeronautical center working with irkut which makes sukhoi and mikoyan fighter jets. Maybe they might be purchased with license to build locally to start off. I am not talking about fully indigenous.

 

[Bilal9]

Indonesia aerospace industries can be traced far before IPTN is founded

maybe you are familiar with foker company, they had assembly line in Bandung during colonial era. And the people working for the workshop continue to do so during japanese occupation. During Soekarno era, jawatan Angkatan Udara (the name for Indonesian Air Force workshop and assembly line for aircraft production) continue the tradition by building the Pzl 2 trainer aircraft, locally known as si kumbang and signed deal with Foker company to license build some cargo aircraft. We had investing a lot in this sector since long, including building human resources with all their infrastructure (like univ, research center, production facilities and etc).

If you are looking at Korean, they first nurturing their aerospace industries first in late 60's decade by setting up workshop to assemble their license built trainer, then they move forward to build F 5 fighter in late 70's and then license built their F16 fleets. along with that they investing a lot to built such capability not just in one or two decades, but for almost five decades continuesly.

Sorry to say BD is very lack in this field and maybe u can started it right now by building license simple aircraft like turboprop trainer to nurture your industries. But dont expect them to leap forward by designing fourth gen fighter like flanker in just one decade, thats what i called near impossible task as u had to accumulate lot of experience before doing so

Well spoken and thanks for the historical tidbits.

Bangladesh is very lacking in this field - no one is arguing that point.

Turboprop trainer should be the first step. We already set up an AF aeronautical center in 2011 and parts mfg. has started.

Stealth Frigate? Which model?

Eibar Buijha Naow

 

[TopCat]

Indonesia aerospace industries can be traced far before IPTN is founded

maybe you are familiar with foker company, they had assembly line in Bandung during colonial era. And the people working for the workshop continue to do so during japanese occupation. During Soekarno era, jawatan Angkatan Udara (the name for Indonesian Air Force workshop and assembly line for aircraft production) continue the tradition by building the Pzl 2 trainer aircraft, locally known as si kumbang and signed deal with Foker company to license build some cargo aircraft. We had investing a lot in this sector since long, including building human resources with all their infrastructure (like univ, research center, production facilities and etc).

If you are looking at Korean, they first nurturing their aerospace industries first in late 60's decade by setting up workshop to assemble their license built trainer, then they move forward to build F 5 fighter in late 70's and then license built their F16 fleets. along with that they investing a lot to built such capability not just in one or two decades, but for almost five decades continuesly.

Sorry to say BD is very lack in this field and maybe u can started it right now by building license simple aircraft like turboprop trainer to nurture your industries. But dont expect them to leap forward by designing fourth gen fighter like flanker in just one decade, thats what i called near impossible task as u had to accumulate lot of experience before doing so

Aircraft technology was very new in 60's and 70's. Besides, due to cold war the technology was very secretive and even money could not buy a lot of things. But now a days with adequate funding you can build some decent 3rd generation aircraft without much hassle. There are a lot of people who could help you with technology.

 

[BDforever]

Well spoken and thanks for the historical tidbits.

Bangladesh is very lacking in this field - no one is arguing that point.

Turboprop trainer should be the first step. We already set up an AF aeronautical center in 2011 and parts mfg. has started.

Stealth Frigate? Which model?

Eibar Buijha Naow

i know the frigate name, do you know ?

 

[mb444]

BD can produce a run of the mill fighter jet in a very period of time if there is a will. What would take a longtime time would be anything cutting edge. I would expect BD to aim for jet trainer as opposed to a turboprop trainer.

 

[~Phoenix~]

i know the frigate name, do you know ?

Umm,Shadhinota Class ?






BTW,I think we should take this topic to the airforce thread...this one is for the navy..

 

[BDforever]

Umm,Shadhinota Class ?






BTW,I think we should take this topic to the airforce thread...this one is for the navy..

no, It is called High Performance Frigate

 

[~Phoenix~]

no, It is called High Performance Frigate

Oh,are we getting that "High Performance Frigate" ?

 

[BDforever]

Oh,are we getting that "High Performance Frigate" ?

currently it is under evaluation

 

[~Phoenix~]

currently it is under evaluation

Oh,I hope we get them as soon as possible..The faster we get them,the better..

 

[Nabil365]

Is this High Performance Frigate better than type-054???Or they are the same frigate??

 

[bluesky]

Is this High Performance Frigate better than type-054???Or they are the same frigate??

From Internet surfing I got this:

CSOC Stealth Frigate
The new "High Performance Frigate" (we were told there was currently no existing project name or designation for this type of frigate) showcased next to the LHD and S20 submarine at IDEX featured a relatively stealthy designed we have never seen before.

Reported specifications of the Frigate are as follow:
Length: 135 meters
Breadth: 15.3 meters
Displacement: 3,500 tons
Maximum speed: 28 Knots

We were told crew complement would be around 110 sailors. The type is fitted with 32 VLS cells at the stern, a H/PJ-26 main gun (Chinese version of the Russian AK-176 76.2mm naval gun), two H/PJ-13 CIWS (Chinese version of the Russian AK-630), two manned machine gun mounts on top of the main bridge, eight anti-ship missile launchers and one FL-3000N missile system on top of the helicopter hangar.

We could not get any information regarding anti-submarine capabilities or the sensor suite fitted on this Frigate. We were just told that "it depends on the customer needs".

 

[~Phoenix~]

From Internet surfing I got this:

CSOC Stealth Frigate
The new "High Performance Frigate" (we were told there was currently no existing project name or designation for this type of frigate) showcased next to the LHD and S20 submarine at IDEX featured a relatively stealthy designed we have never seen before.

Reported specifications of the Frigate are as follow:
Length: 135 meters
Breadth: 15.3 meters
Displacement: 3,500 tons
Maximum speed: 28 Knots

We were told crew complement would be around 110 sailors. The type is fitted with 32 VLS cells at the stern, a H/PJ-26 main gun (Chinese version of the Russian AK-176 76.2mm naval gun), two H/PJ-13 CIWS (Chinese version of the Russian AK-630), two manned machine gun mounts on top of the main bridge, eight anti-ship missile launchers and one FL-3000N missile system on top of the helicopter hangar.

We could not get any information regarding anti-submarine capabilities or the sensor suite fitted on this Frigate. We were just told that "it depends on the customer needs".

We need it badly....provided that we get them with anti-submarine capabilities..