What's new

Bangladesh Navy: Year 2024

I do not know of any past records of ASW helicopters hunting down hunter-killer submarines. The Iraqis don't even have much of a navy.

In theory however, they are quite potent. This method is not very old. Potency also depends on the quality and capability of the equipment on board the thing.

The dipping sonar - FLASH developed by Thales is said to be best in the world.

There was one exercise by the UK's Royal Navy with this:

Royal Navy heralds Thales sonar as "the most potent of any navy" | Thales UK

The FLASH dipping sonar is the mainstay of most of the leading NATO military.

I do not know about Russian or Chinese dipping sonars in this regard.

But as said before, ASW helicopters have limited range and endurance compared to ASW aircraft like the P-8 Poseidon. And it is due to that gap as to why the Royal Navy is planning to acquire that aircraft.

It's not the size of the hammer that counts, it's how you wield it :D

I believe, an ASW heli will do better to locate an enemy submarine than a fast moving ASW aircraft. Anyway, the location cannot be pinpointed. Rather, a discovery will be approximate because of many factors. One factor is the density of sea water that varies in different depths.

Citation from wiki: "Like many forms of warfare, successful anti-submarine warfare depends on a mix of sensor and weapon technology, training, experience and luck. Sophisticated sonar equipment for first detecting, then classifying, locating and tracking the target submarine is a key element of ASW.

To destroy submarines both the torpedo and mine are used, launched from air, surface and underwater platforms. Other means of destruction have been used in the past but are now obsolete. ASW also involves protecting friendly ships."
 
Best of luck to bangladeshi navy and shipbuilding operations, hopefully they would participate in more naval games in the future with western and asian Navies to enhance operational capability and more joint projects with China, russia and US to enhance commercial and naval shipbuilding operations.

Best regards
 
THE MODERNIZATION DRIVE

Surface capability:
The ongoing efforts are gradually addressing BN's capability gap in this field.

Frigate:

Hamilton Class:

To bolster its military capability, Bangladesh navy has acquired a fully equipped Hamilton Class Frigate. Here to mention that Hamilton class cutter and Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate shares the same hull. Ambassador Dan W Mozena told in a seminar at Brac Centre: “I am eagerly waiting for November when the 378-foot long ship is due to arrive in the Bay of Bengal,”.

p1513349.jpg

Image source: http://www.janes.com/images/assets/733/12733/p1513349.jpg

Highly versatile and capable of performing a variety of missions, the Hamilton-class ship features a helicopter flight deck, retractable hangar, and facilities to support helicopter missions.

The ship will be armed with 8 tube (2 quad) AShM (possibly western or European), 8 tube SAM system (possibly FM-90N), 1x main gun 76mm, ASW system (Rocket, Torpedo, Depth charges), 2x CIWS (possibly Chinese) and decoy chaff launchers and a helicopter (possibly Z-9C).

Sources:
US Coast Guard transfers ex-Hamiltion-class cutter to Bangladesh Navy - Naval Technology

US to provide naval ship to Bangladesh - Mozena tells seminar

Any source about AShM that says it could be Western one? I think it will be C-80X.
 
Generally speaking, there are three types of ASW platforms:

1. Airborne, which includes helicopters and planes.
2. Surface units such as frigates, destroyers and coastal submarine hunters (BN has a couple of these).
3. Submerged units like diesel-powered submarines and nuclear-powered ones. Nuclear-powered ones are more for strategic use. Many nuclear armed states store and hide their nuclear arsenal in those things. What's better than keeping them in a hard to find place and a mobile fortress and knowing you can pawn whatever asshole whenever you want to? Diesel-electric ones are more tactical, and swifter than nuclear ones.

Now, the most important and difficult thing about hunting down a submarine is detecting it. It requires a considerable amount of time and resources to do so. It can also be a risky one depending on the assets you use. But once it is detected, hitting and sinking it becomes easy.

Airborne ASW platforms are the most popular means for submarine hunting. Some submarines have MANPADS installed, but such methods are thought to be ineffective.

No, radar cannot be used to detect a submerged submarine. Available technologies are based around means through sound waves and magnetic deviations. Submarine designers have worked hard to make them ever more silent in response.

A submerged submarine is a "hard" target. It's swift, stand still, dive through different temperature layers of the water in order to hide, strike down any noise make, use the bottom of the sea to hide and find another target. Yes, it is an extremely potent weapon.

As mentioned before, ASW aircraft are the most popular means to submarine hunting. They include both helicopters and aircraft. The reason for their popularity is speed. This advantage also gives the aircraft a quicker response time than the submarine.

Helicopters are slower and have much lower endurance than aircraft. But their chief advantage is that they can complete the job in a more methodical fashion. They can also hover above an area (something that ASW aircraft cannot do). Additionally, they can be carried on board by small ships.

On sensors, ASW helicopters are typically equipped with Magnetic Anomaly Detectors (MADs), dipping sonar, and sonobuoys. The latter two can come in both active and passive modes. MADs can detect submarines in a limited area, whereas dipping sonar and sonobuoys can enable the crew to listen to underwater sounds for long periods of time.

MADs are typically used as a probe and towed behind the helicopter or aircraft. Submarines underwater do cause slight deviations in the Earth's magnetic fields. This is based on the fact that a submarine is basically a large mass of steel and alloys concentrated in a primarily water environment.

Such deviations can be detected with the use of MAD. But this method can be very problematic given the increasing number of shipwrecks under the sea. Technology can help solve this given that the information being displayed can present very precise maps of such deviations.

The key drawback of MAD is range. The aircraft or helicopter must fly very low and slow to use it over an area where a submarine is suspected. This method may also require prior intelligence.

Sonar on the other hand is based around sound. The sonar device is basically an advanced microphone which is supported by a variety of emitters and receivers. These can additionally be supported by computer hardware and software to make them more potent. They can be used in both active and passive modes. Active means that the sonar device sends out its own beam, and listens for echos. Passive means that it only receives sounds from the target.

Now, detecting sound underwater depends on four main factors: 1) Salinity, 2) Pollution, 3) temperature and 4) pressure (which increases with depth).

It is these factors that can affect sound waves underwater such as bending them, bouncing them back or even slow them down.

Typically, a sound wave can bounce back from any smooth surface. Be it from an enemy submarine or rocks. Rocks can send sound waves in several directions.

Differences in water temperatures can also affect sound waves. Also called "thermal-layers". Some parts of the oceans have thermal layers so big, that entire nuclear submarines can hide in them. These also bounce back any sounds from any kind of sonar device, or even completely block the sounds from ever reaching the passive sonar.

However, there are layers of the oceans that are perfectly capable of transporting sound waves. This particular layer of the water has a top layer that has too high temperature and hence bounces back the sound waves. The layer at the bottom has a pressure too high and bounces the sound waves as well. By this manner, sound waves will be bounced back from one water layer to another over long distances. This is how whales communicate and travel over long distances. These layers typically lie from a depth of 800-2000 meters, but this ultimately depends on temperature and pressure (the two most key factors in submarine detection).

So how do they go about sound waves? It is measure by "gain" strength of the emission and frequency.

Simple rule of thumb: The higher the frequency, the closer the target. This enables the frequency easier to concentrate and hence a more accurate position fixation on the target.

For low frequencies, it's the opposite. Submerged targets are mostly identified through low frequency means. Meaning that the crew would get an approximate position of the target, not a very accurate one.

But "gain" is very important. Too much gain is never good since it can give off double targets as a result of bouncing back too strongly due to the signal going back down and up again. This may also give irrelevant targets such as fish, rocks and stupid people swimming.


6687186-0-large.jpg


sonobuoy.GIF


Aircraft are much faster than helicopters. And have superior range and endurance. Unfortunately, their speed does not allow them to use a dipping sonar. When it comes to detection, it is limited to sonobouys and MADs. All ASW aircraft must take off from land unlike helicopters, except the E-3 Viking which is not longer used in ASW operations.

In terms of armament, ASW helicopter can carry guided torpedoes and dept charges. Some can carry light anti-ship missiles. ASW aircraft can carry a much higher payload of munitions and sonobuoys.

So what do all these imply for BN or even Myanmar Navy? It'd require one to know their environment and the assets they are operating very well. Now that is a lot of homework. Submarine hunting is a very complex operation where timing is everything. On one hand, the threat posed by a submarine cannot be ignored.

These all are conventional, best cutting-edge technology is Underwater Sensor Networks "Seaweb" that US has been working on. It serves all purposes- ASW capabilities (most accurate), whole naval support, civilian support, tsunami warning etc. Our maritime area is comparatively smaller, we can think of building such a network in future and can think of a safe sea area until Andaman.

Naval Postgraduate School - NPS Pioneers “Seaweb” Underwater Sensor Networks
 
a very important part of the BN that keeps being shelved in the missile FAC squadron.... during the '80s and '90s, we maintained a small force of missile FACs (around 8).... but you can't possibly keep 25-year+ old FACs in the navy even if they're armed with latest C-704 missiles.... Myanmar Navy currently possess a total of 17 missile FACs (all of which were built after 1995 and 11 of which were built after 2004).... these FACs can field a total of 56 SSMs among them!!.... thats a significant threat if you compare with the total of number of SSMs whole BN Flotilla can muster... and add to the ones still under construction in docks of Rangoon...
 
Any source about AShM that says it could be Western one? I think it will be C-80X.

I said probably, based on the facts that:

1. Government is buying the ship from US
2. Ulsan class with similar technology base uses European AShM
3. Government is procuring lot of European weapons
4. US might not like Chinese missiles on their ship
5. Bangladesh signed $1 bl contract with Russia (Europe)
6. To adopt Chinese weapons, the ships electronics needs some modification

I might be wrong. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
THE MODERNIZATION DRIVE

Surface capability:

The ongoing efforts are gradually addressing BN's capability gap in this field.

Frigate:

Type-053H2 Class:

Enhancing the surface capability further with the procurement of two off the shelf Chinese Type-53H2 class frigate. The two ex-PLAN frigates Huangshi (535) and Wuhu (536) from the East Sea Fleet Will join the Bangladesh Navy later this year, and the ship in this regards went heavy refit.

1004737_423126317795488_2047909056_n.jpg


Both the frigates were built by Hudong and commissioned in December 1986 and December 1987 respectively in PLAN.

Before the refit they were armed with: 8 x C-802A SSM, 2 x Type 79A dual 100-mm guns, 4 x dual-Type 76 37 mm AA guns, 2 x 5-tube Type 81 ASW rocket launchers (30 rounds) 4 x Type 64 DC projectors, 2 x CD racks, 2 x Mk 36 decoy RBOCs six-barrel rocket launchers.

Sources:

Defence purchase govt’s priority - Military hardware worth Tk 15,104cr procured in five years, more in pipeline; focus on modernising armed forces

China - RP Defense

http://www.imdexasia.com/pdfs/AMI-Naval-Mkt-HN-March2013.pdf
 
the number four point seems very strong to me.... if that doesn't have a problem, I don't think there should be anything stopping us from installing Chinese or Russian systems on board US or European ships....
we've put C-704 missiles on ex-RN ships.... Chinese FM-90 missiles on Korean-built frigate.... and the latest Chinese weapons are made from re-engineering Western tech....

ultimately it depends on how much importance our navy puts behind Western weapons vs. Chinese or Russian weapons.... operating experience with the current missiles would have some impact on this decision.... anyone has any idea about the missile testing experiences of BN over the years?.... C-802A fired from BNS Osman (2009), C-704 fired from BNS Dhaleswari (2013) and BNS Durdharsha (2012), Otomat fired from BNS Bangabandhu (2011).....

I said probably, based on the facts that:

1. Government is buying the ship from US
2. Ulsan class with similar technology base uses European AShM
3. Government is procuring lot of European weapons
4. US might not like Chinese missiles on their ship
5. Bangladesh signed $1 bl contract with Russia (Europe)
6. To adopt Chinese weapons, the ships electronics needs some modification

I might be wrong. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
the number four point seems very strong to me.... if that doesn't have a problem, I don't think there should be anything stopping us from installing Chinese or Russian systems on board US or European ships....
we've put C-704 missiles on ex-RN ships.... Chinese FM-90 missiles on Korean-built frigate.... and the latest Chinese weapons are made from re-engineering Western tech....

ultimately it depends on how much importance our navy puts behind Western weapons vs. Chinese or Russian weapons.... operating experience with the current missiles would have some impact on this decision.... anyone has any idea about the missile testing experiences of BN over the years?.... C-802A fired from BNS Osman (2009), C-704 fired from BNS Dhaleswari (2013) and BNS Durdharsha (2012), Otomat fired from BNS Bangabandhu (2011).....

In a recent naval exercise, Dhaleshwari fired four C-704 missiles, all of which hit their targets at ranges of up to 38 km.

Source:
Former Coast Guard Cutter Jarvis Transferred to Growing Bangladesh Navy | Defense Media Network
 
I have 2 unrelated questions, I wonder if anyone can answer.

1. The Jarvis cutter seems to have a white external coating as if she's still a coast guard vessel, does this mean they have been bought for the coast guard and not the navy? Or am I completely wrong an my eyes are playing tricks on me.

2. The newest and most powerful ship in the navy is named after Mujib, do you think the AL will ever purchase a vessel that more powerful then this ship? They may not want to buy anything that would eclipse one with Mujibs name, just a thought.
 
@damiendehorn, contrary to what you said, BNS Samudra Joy is the largest frigate within the BN. BNS Bangabandhu is the second largest after the induction of Samudra Joy. By the way, whatever defense magazine I read are full of the news of Bangladesh navy procurement.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top Bottom