Bangladesh court jails two Hindu teachers for criticising Islam

[Shinigami]

Its ghar wapsi which is happening behind the burkha at grass roots.

Read the history of RSS and Congress rivalry. How many times its top leaders were arrested and banned. Yet it has survived.

RSS uses the reverse of top-down approach. They build cadres at the local level, then if BJP is in power, they will set up local base and start membership drive. Food for thought: RSS is the single largest voluntary membership organization in the world even surpassing Communist Part of China.

It's Bengal via Assam. Illegal Bangladeshis are being made to cut off from the Indian economic and social benefits by making checks and balances in the system. This is a Central Govt initiative.

go back to your RSS rally mate. and dont forget the knickers

 

[Loafer]

go back to your RSS rally mate. and dont forget the knickers

Buthurt?

Are you not a Hindu?

 

[kobiraaz]

Well I just hope they don't get hacked to death after six months, by those so called defenders of the faith, when they are out.

That my friend is a possibility. Faith militants under high sparrow are at loose.

I blame the islamophobes; echoing Madam Hasina. The phobe brigrade had been writing scurrilous blogs since 2006 - 2007. It looks like they have successfully awaken the sleeping Giant.

 

[dray]

There is nothing that sort of thing written in the science book. Its wise to stick to the curriculum. Some Hindu teachers intentionally throw insults. Its better to avoid such circumstances to maintain social harmony.

As I said earlier, you cannot build a vibrant scientific ecosystem by letting religion interfere with it. One just pass the exams by following only the curriculam, but doesn't learn the subject, and 17-18 years old science students of high schools in a science class should be intellectually and emotionally ready to discuss the idea of non-existence of god and heaven contrary to their religious beliefs, and then they are free to make their own judgement. If religion dictates the teachings of science, then it is not science. Science has always challenged the deeply entrenched religious beliefs and dogmas, you don't build truly scientific minds by not letting it do so.

And what is 'insult'? The religious texts that @SHK explained, like "There is absolutely no deity worthy of worship except Allah"...this one should be insulting to the people of other religions unless Muslims seriously believe and state that gods of other religions and Allah is one and same, which I am sure most Muslims don't believe! If an atheist's views about non-existence of god and heaven can be insulting for the Muslims of Bangladesh, and the atheist goes to jail for that, then Muslims saying that "There is no god but Allah" should also go to jail for insulting other religions, no? After all blasphemy laws in Bangladesh is there to protect 'insults' against all religions, right? If what you are suggesting is the majority view in Bangladesh, then my friend, you are not building a society which is secular and liberal that supports and promotes divergent views and a scientific culture. I can understand some degree of anger (not murder) if someone is being absolutely abusive and foul-mouthed while stating his/her views about religion(s), but not allowing any debate and/or discussion, jailing people for being atheists, oh please...that's state sponsored fundamentalism!

I would also point out the dangers of @Anubis 's argument that one should be very cautious about not to offend, even remotely, the deeply religious sections (read fundamentalists) of the society. I believe to the contrary. If you start pandering to such demands in the name of social harmony and respecting the religious views of the majority, then there would be no end to it, and sooner than later the whole society would turn into a fundamentalist radicalized one where divergent and differing views other than the majority view has no place. That my friend is called fascism, only this one is not political or racist, but religious. Unless you are okay with a fundamentalist society or yourself has a fundamentalist mindset (which I believe you don't), you should not support the idea of giving into the demands of the fundamentalists. Here the state should also stand against such demands instead of sending people with differing views to jail, unless of course if the state is also not fundamentalist in nature.

 

[bongbang]

As I said earlier, you cannot build a vibrant scientific ecosystem by letting religion interfere with it. One just pass the exams by following only the curriculam, but doesn't learn the subject, and 17-18 years old science students of high schools in a science class should be intellectually and emotionally ready to discuss the idea of non-existence of god and heaven contrary to their religious beliefs, and then they are free to make their own judgement. If religion dictates the teachings of science, then it is not science. Science has always challenged the deeply entrenched religious beliefs and dogmas, you don't build truly scientific minds by not letting it do so.

And what is 'insult'? The religious texts that @SHK explained, like "There is absolutely no deity worthy of worship except Allah"...this one should be insulting to the people of other religions unless Muslims seriously believe and state that gods of other religions and Allah is one and same, which I am sure most Muslims don't believe! If an atheist's views about non-existence of god and heaven can be insulting for the Muslims of Bangladesh, and the atheist goes to jail for that, then Muslims saying that "There is no god but Allah" should also go to jail for insulting other religions, no? After all blasphemy laws in Bangladesh is there to protect 'insults' against all religions, right? If what you are suggesting is the majority view in Bangladesh, then my friend, you are not building a society which is secular and liberal that supports and promotes divergent views and a scientific culture. I can understand some degree of anger (not murder) if someone is being absolutely abusive and foul-mouthed while stating his/her views about religion(s), but not allowing any debate and/or discussion, jailing people for being atheists, oh please...that's state sponsored fundamentalism!

I would also point out the dangers of @Anubis 's argument that one should be very cautious about not to offend, even remotely, the deeply religious sections (read fundamentalists) of the society. I believe to the contrary. If you start pandering to such demands in the name of social harmony and respecting the religious views of the majority, then there would be no end to it, and sooner than later the whole society would turn into a fundamentalist radicalized one where divergent and differing views other than the majority view has no place. That my friend is called fascism, only this one is not political or racist, but religious. Unless you are okay with a fundamentalist society or yourself has a fundamentalist mindset (which I believe you don't), you should not support the idea of giving into the demands of the fundamentalists. Here the state should also stand against such demands instead of sending people with differing views to jail, unless of course if the state is also not fundamentalist in nature.

Its coming from this Indian newspaper that they were 17 to 18 years old. According to BD education structure students will be around 15 years old in the last class of high school. 17 to 18 years old are college level students. This is nonsense, students at that level cant be that potent to be intellectual enough, if that is what you mean someone's intellectual level is determined if one can ponder into such thoughts contrary to their religious beliefs. In the city areas people are actually open minded and they discuss that sort of things regularly. But our subjects are from backward village where the first generation is getting into education and they are not open to such thoughts. If they are not interested why this provocation to shove something into their throats by the communal minds. It makes sense to stick to the curriculum. Can safely assume that these provocations happened before that intensified further.

 

[Bilal9]

lol, they mocked Islam.......in Muslim majority Country

Tells you how much we tolerate as a society. If the govt. does not tolerate (as a blasphemy law) that is a political matter.

I will agree - generally Bengalis in Eastern and Western Bengal are far more liberal in outlook than any area in the rest of India. This evolved as a result of our development of values as a civil society, arts, literature and culture even in Buddha's time which is unmatched in the rest of India (except maybe the South) which falls prey to fundamentalism (of either religion) too often.

Try killing people in Kerala and Manipur. They eat a lot of beef.

This story that Hindus never ate beef is an 'invention' of recent times.

Hindus at one time did kill cows and did eat beef.

http://www.countercurrents.org/ambedkar050315.htm

 

[dray]

Its coming from this Indian newspaper that they were 17 to 18 years old. According to BD education structure students will be around 15 years old in the last class of high school. 17 to 18 years old are college level students. This is nonsense, students at that level cant be that potent to be intellectual enough, if that is what you mean someone's intellectual level is determined if one can ponder into such thoughts contrary to their religious beliefs. In the city areas people are actually open minded and they discuss that sort of things regularly. But our subjects are from backward village where the first generation is getting into education and they are not open to such thoughts. If they are not interested why this provocation to shove something into their throats by the communal minds. It makes sense to stick to the curriculum. Can safely assume that these provocations happened before that intensified further.

You are missing the woods for the trees..!!

Do you expose 15 years old kids (or for that matter 5 years old kids) to religious ideas, to the idea of existence of god, heaven, god's messenger, etc.? Then what is logically and morally wrong to expose them to the contrary ideas also? Human beings evolved by questioning, exploring and changing the prevalent knowledge and beliefs! Your subjects may be from backward villages where the first generation is getting into education, but that doesn't mean that you should keep them blinded from divergent ideas and views, in fact this should be an opportunity to open their minds to other views that their parents were not exposed to, and a science teacher is a suitable person to do the job...nothing is more potent to control the evil of fundamentalism than education, real education that is not forced to operate within the dictates of religion. (Btw, I was disappointed to see that you of all found a 'Hindu' in that science teacher ).

Besides, my primary objection is with the state that decides to put someone in jail just for his/her atheist views. Sure one cannot say for sure that there is no god and no heaven, but the opposite is also true. Though I am not an atheist, but there is a strong possibility that the prophets or protagonists of religions were philosophers and social reformers who wrote social code of contacts for the masses (thus religions were man made with good intent), there is no heaven but just space and objects like planets and stars scattered around, we are not alone in the universe but there are many alien civilizations, and god is a figment of our imagination to make the masses to follow the social code of conducts aka religions with the imagined rewards and punishments, or maybe god is a much advanced alien race that helped and guided us, and assuming that there is god, different religions could be conveying the same message in different ways, just like the way different languages can convey the same message in different ways, each unfathomable mumbo jumbo to others who don't know the language.......who knows for sure? The idea of education and a progressive liberal society should be to expose the people to all views and possibilities and allow them to make their own judgement. I repeat what I said to @Anubis , if you start pandering to fundamentalist demands in the name of social harmony and respecting the religious views of the majority, then there would be no end to it, and sooner than later the whole society would turn into a fundamentalist radicalized one where divergent and differing views other than the majority view has no place, and I can say with surety that it wouldn't be a desirable situation.

Though I came late in the discussion from page 4 only, I am interested to know the views of @SHK @Doyalbaba @chaanmia and @BDforever (always avoiding controversies ) on the discussion, including the application of blasphemy laws on atheists and people with differing views, who express it with civility without using abusive languages to put forward their views.

 

[bongbang]

You are missing the woods for the trees..!!

Do you expose 15 years old kids (or for that matter 5 years old kids) to religious ideas, to the idea of existence of god, heaven, god's messenger, etc.? Then what is logically and morally wrong to expose them to the contrary ideas also? Human beings evolved by questioning, exploring and changing the prevalent knowledge and beliefs! Your subjects may be from backward villages where the first generation is getting into education, but that doesn't mean that you should keep them blinded from divergent ideas and views, in fact this should be an opportunity to open their minds to other views that their parents were not exposed to, and a science teacher is a suitable person to do the job...nothing is more potent to control the evil of fundamentalism than education, real education that is not forced to operate within the dictates of religion. (Btw, I was disappointed to see that you of all found a 'Hindu' in that science teacher ).

Besides, my primary objection is with the state that decides to put someone in jail just for his/her atheist views. Sure one cannot say for sure that there is no god and no heaven, but the opposite is also true. Though I am not an atheist, but there is a strong possibility that the prophets or protagonists of religions were philosophers and social reformers who wrote social code of contacts for the masses (thus religions were man made with good intent), there is no heaven but just space and objects like planets and stars scattered around, we are not alone in the universe but there are many alien civilizations, and god is a figment of our imagination to make the masses to follow the social code of conducts aka religions with the imagined rewards and punishments, or maybe god is a much advanced alien race that helped and guided us, and assuming that there is god, different religions could be conveying the same message in different ways, just like the way different languages can convey the same message in different ways, each unfathomable mumbo jumbo to others who don't know the language.......who knows for sure? The idea of education and a progressive liberal society should be to expose the people to all views and possibilities and allow them to make their own judgement. I repeat what I said to @Anubis , if you start pandering to fundamentalist demands in the name of social harmony and respecting the religious views of the majority, then there would be no end to it, and sooner than later the whole society would turn into a fundamentalist radicalized one where divergent and differing views other than the majority view has no place, and I can say with surety that it wouldn't be a desirable situation.

Though I came late in the discussion from page 4 only, I am interested to know the views of @SHK @Doyalbaba @chaanmia and @BDforever (always avoiding controversies ) on the discussion, including the application of blasphemy laws on atheists and people with differing views, who express it with civility without using abusive languages to put forward their views.

What is the benefit of atheism teaching? =Zero. People should be more concerned with productive thinking barring few minds. Atheism doesnt touch the mass's heart. People want god, so not interested to violate their freedom. People in the subcontinent and world in large are god loving people so its not the idea to establish godless country. But tolerance to one another. And religious teachings are easy to control all kinds of people in the country as people are backward in large number in this continent so dont expect moving things over night. Atheism is a costly teaching. Atheism dont have the answer to control criminal cases in the country and social code of conduct. In school religious books teach the higher social virtues.

Most atheists arent intellectual enough, just blind hater. I can understand, this happened in BD because of hate for Pakistan and JeI. After totally crushing them from BD, respect for Islam will reestablish. Islam is a beautiful religion and most ex muslim atheists will get back, also Hindus in large. Probably Bangladeshis are what is today because of their faith, otherwise they would be under feet of the Brahmins. At the end of the day what separates BD from India is their faith so BD state should do everything to protect majority's stake.

 

[baajey]

A teacher in his class needs to be responsible. Kids learn from their teachers. Quite Normal for the guardians react that way. They didn't send their children to the school so that someone can turn them into atheists.

that really depends on which subject the teachers were teaching. you cant expect a science teacher to approve of god n heaven, do you ?

"I put no stock in religion. By the
word religion I have seen the lunacy
of fanatics of every denomination be
called the will of God. I've seen too
much religion in the eyes of too
many murderers. Holiness is in
right action, and courage on behalf
of those who cannot defend
themselves. And goodness - what
God desires - is here in head and here in heart and by what you
decide to do every day you will be a
good man...or not."

aha...a movie goer with a beautiful mind ? apt quote btw

 

[vsdave2302]

Bangladesh jails two Hindu teachers for 'insulting' Islam
Agencies | Apr 28, 2016, 04.09 AM IST

DHAKA: A court has jailed two Hindu teachers in southern Bangladesh for making derogatory comments about Islam, invoking a rare law from the colonial era that makes insulting any religion a crime.

A court in southwestern Bagerhat sentenced the two teachers - Krishnapada Mouli and assistant teacher Ashok Kumar - of Hijla High School to jail for six months over remarks that sparked anger among people in the neighbourhood, reports and officials said. The incident came to light when students of Hijla High School complained that the assistant teacher of science on Sunday dismissed the Quran as the word of Allah and said there was no heaven, magistrate Anwar Parvez said.

The students, aged 17 to 18, along with others from a nearby Islamic school became incensed when the school's head teacher backed up his colleague. In no time, a mob, including students, parents and villagers attacked the teachers with sticks, forcing them to lock themselves in a room until police intervened, Parvez said.

The magistrate of the fast-track court said the assistant teacher pleaded guilty to publicly insulting religion, and the two were sentenced to six months behind bars.

The law against insulting religion, imposed when Britain ruled the Indian subcontinent, is rarely used and aimed at preventing communal clashes.

The Muslim-majority country - politically fractured between secularists and those wanting Islamic rule - has been roiled by an ongoing wave of deadly attacks on atheist writers, minorities and activists over the last two years.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-for-insulting-Islam/articleshow/52018236.cms

Wow,

BD perfectly in line with other Islamic countries. We shold see the riplica of what is happening in most of Islamic countries across the world. Mob attaked and court jailed them for saying that there is no Heaven.

 

[dray]

What is the benefit of atheism teaching? =Zero. People should be more concerned with productive thinking barring few minds. Atheism doesnt touch the mass's heart. People want god, so not interested to violate their freedom. People in the subcontinent and world in large are god loving people so its not the idea to establish godless country. But tolerance to one another. And religious teachings are easy to control all kinds of people in the country as people are backward in large number in this continent so dont expect moving things over night. Atheism is a costly teaching. Atheism dont have the answer to control criminal cases in the country and social code of conduct. In school religious books teach the higher social virtues.

Most atheists arent intellectual enough, just blind hater. I can understand, this happened in BD because of hate for Pakistan and JeI. After totally crushing them from BD, respect for Islam will reestablish. Islam is a beautiful religion and most ex muslim atheists will get back, also Hindus in large. Probably Bangladeshis are what is today because of their faith, otherwise they would be under feet of the Brahmins. At the end of the day what separates BD from India is their faith so BD state should do everything to protect majority's stake.

As you have mentioned about tolerance to one another, people should be tolerant to the views of atheists also, since atheists also tolerate the views of god loving people, when the call of azaan in loudspeakers speaks about the glory of Allah as the only god five times a day, atheists and followers of other religions tolerate that all over the world, Islamists should return the gesture. At least a state that claims to be secular and liberal should not throw atheists in jail for their views.

But if you want your state to be a religious fundamentalist protecting only the majority religious views, then it's a different issue altogether, I was arguing with an assumption that you want Bangladesh to be a secular, liberal, progressive country, and not another Saudi Arabia.

 

[BDforever]

What is the benefit of atheism teaching? =Zero. People should be more concerned with productive thinking barring few minds. Atheism doesnt touch the mass's heart. People want god, so not interested to violate their freedom. People in the subcontinent and world in large are god loving people so its not the idea to establish godless country. But tolerance to one another. And religious teachings are easy to control all kinds of people in the country as people are backward in large number in this continent so dont expect moving things over night. Atheism is a costly teaching. Atheism dont have the answer to control criminal cases in the country and social code of conduct. In school religious books teach the higher social virtues.

Most atheists arent intellectual enough, just blind hater. I can understand, this happened in BD because of hate for Pakistan and JeI. After totally crushing them from BD, respect for Islam will reestablish. Islam is a beautiful religion and most ex muslim atheists will get back, also Hindus in large. Probably Bangladeshis are what is today because of their faith, otherwise they would be under feet of the Brahmins. At the end of the day what separates BD from India is their faith so BD state should do everything to protect majority's stake.

As long as someone don't use abusive toward particular religious people (be it Muslim or Hindu) or in any particular matter, i am ok with it

 

[24 Hours]

@Rain Man
I look at things a bit more pragmatically here rather than ideally. Idealistically it is best than the atheists have their free speech but, pragmatically it'snot a good decision, especially in a Muslim majority country. Bangladesh isn't at that level of development where we can openly criticism regarding religion. For their safety it's best to keep it illegal for now. Fact of the matter is, even if you try to express it with civility it's still going to anger people. I'd welcome the time when we can discuss religion with civility but, that time has yet to come.

 

[Zabaniyah]

That I am.

Beef eaters have got their country in 1947.

I don't eat beef.

And that isn't irony.

 

[dray]

@Rain Man
I look at things a bit more pragmatically here rather than ideally. Idealistically it is best than the atheists have their free speech but, pragmatically it'snot a good decision, especially in a Muslim majority country. Bangladesh isn't at that level of development where we can openly criticism regarding religion. For their safety it's best to keep it illegal for now. Fact of the matter is, even if you try to express it with civility it's still going to anger people. I'd welcome the time when we can discuss religion with civility but, that time has yet to come.

I understand what you are saying, but such a stand by the state doesn't solve anything, or improve the situation, it only leads to more fundamentalism and more intolerance towards the 'other'. I will tell you how..

even if you try to express it with civility it's still going to anger people.

What angers people?

Today some people are angry with the atheist views that goes against their religion..

Tomorrow some people will be angry with women not wearing burqa, going out alone for education and jobs, etc., as that might go against their religion, at least as per their understanding of it..

A day after some people might think that men not keeping beard, singing, dancing, flying kite, watching movie or sports, clapping, or maybe not offering namaz 5 times a day is an insult to their religion..

Today some people are angry with the atheists, tomorrow they will get angry with the mere existence of religious minorities..

Then some people will get angry at the other sects of their co-religionists, Shias, Sufis, maybe Ahmediyas also if you consider them Muslims..

There is no end to it, and once the 'angry folks' get habituated to have their way because state is soft on them, there is no stopping. All of these mentioned above have already happened somewhere in the world, partially in Bangladesh also. Radicalization doesn't happen in a day, it happens over a period in step by step, either with active state participation or by passive encouragement of the state...going soft on the fundamentalists, moreover, punishing the 'other' to please the fundamentalists IS passive state encouragement.

You see anywhere, giving importance to 'nuisance value', submitting to the demands of a bully never cured any problem, it only emboldened the nuisance maker and the bully...and radicalized fellows with machetes and majority fundamentalism (or fascism) is far serious threats than the nuisance makers and the bullies.

America was quite educated a few decades back when racism and brutal discrimination against its black people was rampant, today America is one of the most liberal, secular, and safer country for the minorities, both religious and colour, because the state was strict and hard against such attitude of its majority whites. Had America decided to pander to the demands of their majority white population and waited for peoples' minds to change and reform on their own, then today its black population would have remained slaves and white supremacists organization would have been running the show there.

Or take the example of Turkey, today it is one of the most progressive Muslim nation, starkly different from its neighbourhood, because Ataturk made strong liberal laws and implemented them strictly, he didn't allow religion and its laws to dictate the government, had he waited for the people to change, then Turkey would have remained another typical ME country. It's different that now Erdogan wants to change Turkey to a more Islamic nation.

There is a concern both inside and outside Bangladesh that radicalism is rising there, it is because the state has allowed it the space.....

For their safety it's best to keep it illegal for now.

This part really stumped me...you don't protect the minorities and atheists by making laws against them, you just allow crude majoritarianism to flourish for your own political benefits.