Bal Thackeray and the rise of Shiv Sena in Maharashtra

[Spring Onion]

Being Hindu has never clashed with being Secular.

Islam grew to where it is within the subcontinent thanks to that.

180 million Muslims live peacefully with 850 million Hindus thanks to that.

No prizes for guessing if the same would have been true were the tables turned.

Doc telling lies through teeth doesnt suit you atleast.

You know the reality of so -called peace for Muslims in India. what price they are paying for it you know it well. Its the Muslims who are not responding to Hindu violence with same force otherwise the picture would have been different.

2. Hindu do clash with "secular" otherwise you would not have seen Saffron Hindu Terror outfits there.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Sir, Why did u miss first point? Dint he call for sucide bombers? You should judge by his intentions too. His in-ability of carrying out those crimes doesnt make him good.

Bin laden succeded in Hijacking planes and carrying out his agenda. This man isnt. But both had same intentions.

Lets talk by ur own methods. I have the intention to become like Bill Gates. So can i be compared to that great man, even literally? Hell no, cos i havent achieved anything like that.
Maharastrians love him, thats it. Comparing him to a terrorist doesnt help matter.
There was a time when Mumbai was plagued by Underworld Dons. Its Shiv Sena which put an end to Dons to Mumbai. Congress were developed them, and he finished it. And its cos of his effort, Dawood was made to run from India.
He might have said his intentions were like that, but he didnt execute it, nor his followers. He dont have an anti muslim riots to his name.

Act of one good thing doesnt make him good. He was Hindu extreamist. Helped them. Whats the big deal.
Bin Laden Helped Taliban to Liberate from Russia.
Bin Laden donated lot of money to Talibanians.

First Russia never invaded Russia. Its a western lie. Russsia came after Afghan Monarch asked their support to develop their armed forces.
Taliban made Afghanistan worse than it was under Russia.

 

[Nair saab]

Most young Parsis (at 42 I still qualify) are 100% behind the Shiv Sena in Mumbai. Or the MNS. Personally, I like Raj more. I cannot wait for him to come to power. And hopefully grow from there.

Ya thats the point these people outside Mumbai dont even know the problems here... i am South India myself ... worked with Sena for few years... they r very good people ... Patriots ...

I know Many South Indians who completely Backs sena... even the Malayali Associations of Thane completely Supports Sena ... I even know many Tamil associations who support Sena & Balasheb ...

I have personally met Raj sheb once although for few minutes... very down to earth man ... he talks directly on point unlike other politicians who play Diplomacy ... he even appreciated me for talking in Marathi even after being a South Indian... very charismatic person...

 

[vsdoc]

Doc telling lies through teeth doesnt suit you atleast.

You know the reality of so -called peace for Muslims in India. what price they are paying for it you know it well. Its the Muslims who are not responding to Hindu violence with same force otherwise the picture would have been different.

2. Hindu do clash with "secular" otherwise you would not have seen Saffron Hindu Terror outfits there.

Sorry but I am not lying when I tell you that at heart most Hindus are chilled out, not overly religious, and very accepting of other ideas and faiths and practices.

Their dislike of Islam is natural.

The deal between Hindus and Muslims in India is one of a lot of baggage that is not going away in a hurry.

The Muslims need to mainstream peacefully. There is no other way for them as a community.

Otherwise they will remain in their mohallas and become the aborigines that time forgot.

Of course they will have to behave. Like all of us have to.

And they will need to get their priorities and loyalties right.

That is what we are working toward.

There is a reason why a Parsi is not looked at the same way a Muslim is.

I can assure you that tomorrow if the Parsis were 200 odd million and start acting like the Muslims, things would change pretty quickly.

Are you blaming the Hindus for that?

That is not being unbiased, and as a senior journalist, I would expect the same from you.

 

[arp2041]

Doc telling lies through teeth doesnt suit you atleast.

You know the reality of so -called peace for Muslims in India. what price they are paying for it you know it well. Its the Muslims who are not responding to Hindu violence with same force otherwise the picture would have been different.

2. Hindu do clash with "secular" otherwise you would not have seen Saffron Hindu Terror outfits there.

what sort of argument is that, if muslims are in majority than they don't have problem in making that country an Islamic nation, there is no single muslim majority secular nation (even Turkey is becoming a sort of Islamic nation), while when muslims are in minority than other nations preach secularism?? Look at the condition of religious minority that is really pathetic in Pakistan, before teaching secularism to India.

 

[doublemaster]

Lets talk by ur own methods. I have the intention to become like Bill Gates. So can i be compared to that great man, even literally? Hell no, cos i havent achieved anything like that.
Maharastrians love him, thats it. Comparing him to a terrorist doesnt help matter.
There was a time when Mumbai was plagued by Underworld Dons. Its Shiv Sena which put an end to Dons to Mumbai. Congress were developed them, and he finished it. And its cos of his effort, Dawood was made to run from India.
He might have said his intentions were like that, but he didnt execute it, nor his followers. He dont have an anti muslim riots to his name.



First Russia never invaded Russia. Its a western lie. Russsia came after Afghan Monarch asked their support to develop their armed forces.
Taliban made Afghanistan worse than it was under Russia.

"Criminal Conspiracy". Have you heard of this? Some times you dont even need to take steps. You just need to plan. You will be in jail.

If you have intentions to become Gates, then your actions and his actions, your plans and his planes are also comparable.

 

[Spring Onion]

what sort of argument is that, if muslims are in majority than they don't have problem in making that country an Islamic nation, there is no single muslim majority secular nation (even Turkey is becoming a sort of Islamic nation), while when muslims are in minority than other nations preach secularism?? Look at the condition of religious minority that is really pathetic, before teaching secularism to India.

Your agrument is totally out of context

1. The argument here is about clash of Hindu with "Secular" in India which had been breeding Hindu Extremists groups who believe in Hinduism as prime faith for the country negating all other religions even "secularism"

2. This reality is the factor due to which today you see two groups the one is called Saffaronies the other Congressi. Your Saffroni hardliners call the congressis "Sickular" and so on and blame them for negating Hinduism and Hindu values and so on.


3. This reality is a factor that had led to so many communal riots in INDIA and by Hindus even before partition too.

4. You can not compare your country with other countries that clearly do NOT put a fake secularism tag on their forehead. They clearly state they are faith-based countries.

You need to come out of the fake world and either become and prove fully secular or just bravely declare that you are Hindu state just like Bal Thackray does so.

 

[vsdoc]

The first thing Muslims need to do is please send your kids to school man.

Please.

Let them grow up sitting side by side with kids from other religions and faiths and backgrounds.

Let those kids get a chance of growing up along with you guys.

That will solve 90% of our problems in 20 years time.

This question is for the Indians here.

Lets be honest.

How many Muslim kids did you have in your class growing up in school?

Muslims make 15% of our population.

That means in an average class of 40, there should be at least 5-6 Muslim kids.

I had only 1.

 

[arp2041]

Your agrument is totally out of context

1. The argument here is about clash of Hindu with "Secular" in India which had been breeding Hindu Extremists groups who believe in Hinduism as prime faith for the country negating all other religions even "secularism"

2. This reality is the factor due to which today you see two groups the one is called Saffaronies the other Congressi. Your Saffroni hardliners call the congressis "Sickular" and so on and blame them for negating Hinduism and Hindu values and so on.


3. This reality is a factor that had led to so many communal riots in INDIA and by Hindus even before partition too.

4. You can not compare your country with other countries that clearly do NOT put a fake secularism tag on their forehead. They clearly state they are faith-based countries.

You need to come out of the fake world and either become and prove fully secular or just bravely declare that you are Hindu state just like Bal Thackray does so.

Ok so what u are saying that if India declares itself a Hindu nation, than we can kill every person that is in minority & than u will not have any reason to challenge Indian actions??? So if Pakistan has declared itself an Islamic nation, it has the power to kill every Hindu within it's territory??

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

"Criminal Conspiracy". Have you heard of this? Some times you dont even need to take steps. You just need to plan. You will be in jail.

If you have intentions to become Gates, then your actions and his actions, your plans and his planes are also comparable.

The matter is i have no plans and actions to be compared to him.
I have never been to mumbai, but was just amazed to see the power that this old man has. Everybody have a look at him, 40000 people praying for him outside the house. The love people for him, is true.
Bal have worked his way from a cartoonist to a CM. So "criminal conspiracy" is a term, which defines, that he have actually planned something, and working towards implementations.
But he just spoke words. He nor his followers have not done anything stupid till now.
Many Religious org do use threatening words to get their works done. MP Syed Sahabuddin threatened a bloodshed if India dont ban Salman Rushdie's book in 1991. India became the first nation to ban that book,(Even Iran didnt ban that book that time).
Sometimes strong languages were used, which are bad, i accept. But this guy havent done anything to justify his comparison to a terrorist , who have killed thousands.

 

[Spring Onion]

Sorry but I am not lying when I tell you that at heart most Hindus are chilled out, not overly religious, and very accepting of other ideas and faiths and practices.

Their dislike of Islam is natural.

The deal between Hindus and Muslims in India is one of a lot of baggage that is not going away in a hurry.

The Muslims need to mainstream peacefully. There is no other way for them as a community.

Otherwise they will remain in their mohallas and become the aborigines that time forgot.

Of course they will have to behave. Like all of us have to.

And they will need to get their priorities and loyalties right.

That is what we are working toward.

There is a reason why a Parsi is not looked at the same way a Muslim is.

I can assure you that tomorrow if the Parsis were 200 odd million and start acting like the Muslims, things would change pretty quickly.
Are you blaming the Hindus for that?

.

You are just jumping right and left and not addressing the realities.

2. Parsis do NOT negate the faith of beliefs of Hindus thats why Hindus in India dont treat them like they treat Muslims. Being Muslim in itself negation of all sorts of wordly object that are worshipped be it idols, animals, or fire or wind or water.


3. Muslims in India had always been peaceful they dont have any other option unless they are killed in big numbers still they are minnows.

4. funny you are questioning loyalities of INDIAN MUSLIMS. its a shame for every NON-Muslim Indian to question loyalty of Indian Muslims. For Non-Muslim Indians if loyalty yardstick to test Muslims in India is to resort to Idol worshiping or negating their own faith. Then i am sorry you all are saffronies. Another Partition may be needed

 

[doublemaster]

Sorry but I am not lying when I tell you that at heart most Hindus are chilled out, not overly religious, and very accepting of other ideas and faiths and practices.

Their dislike of Islam is natural.

The deal between Hindus and Muslims in India is one of a lot of baggage that is not going away in a hurry.

The Muslims need to mainstream peacefully. There is no other way for them as a community.

Otherwise they will remain in their mohallas and become the aborigines that time forgot.

Of course they will have to behave. Like all of us have to.

And they will need to get their priorities and loyalties right.

That is what we are working toward.

There is a reason why a Parsi is not looked at the same way a Muslim is.

I can assure you that tomorrow if the Parsis were 200 odd million and start acting like the Muslims, things would change pretty quickly.

Are you blaming the Hindus for that?

That is not being unbiased, and as a senior journalist, I would expect the same from you.

1. Explain First Bolded Point.
2. When they try to come to main stream by Building schools and colleges government doesnt give permissions. How can they come to main stream. How many instances of this u need?
3. Place called Bhatkal in India, where muslims are financially good, united and strong, News papare run stories "Bhatkal sits on an RDX dump, warn policemen" and later apoliges. There are other news papers also did some thing like this before. Now Bhatkalies dont get rooms in bangalore. Even muslims fearing being harassed doesnt give them rooms in bangalore.

Times of India makes a U-turn on 'Bhatkal RDX dump' report, says sorry

Thread like this one clearly shows that, Hindus are no different from muslims. Extreamist are treated like heros by many people in India. Every country, Every religion will have extream thinkers. But muslims are news because they fight against west.
---------------
Note: 2nd point is not so common. But happened in Karnataka where BJP rules

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The first thing Muslims need to do is please send your kids to school man.

Please.

Let them grow up sitting side by side with kids from other religions and faiths and backgrounds.

Let those kids get a chance of growing up along with you guys.

That will solve 90% of our problems in 20 years time.

This question is for the Indians here.

Lets be honest.

How many Muslim kids did you have in your class growing up in school?

Muslims make 15% of our population.

That means in an average class of 40, there should be at least 5-6 Muslim kids.

I had only 1.

Have to accept that. Situations is better in TN for Muslim boys, but not for rural girls.
My cousin friend , a muslim (rural town in TN), got school first in 10th, but now she is now a mother of a kid, while my cousin is studying 12th. She used to cry it seems.
Muslims must come out of their comfort zone. Education is the way forward. In city muslim girls are allowed to study, with some restrictions, but its worse in rural areas.

 

[vsdoc]

Pakistanis do not understand Secularism.

Those Pakistanis that have traveled or lived abroad do, but their understanding is that of Western secularism.

Religion and faith is largely dead in the West.

Very much not so in India.

We are a secular state of intensely religious individuals.

Political parties are made up of individuals.

They come to power on the back if individuals.

But the state they run remains secular.

A secularism of tolerance and mutual respect.

Of the freedom to have your own faith, yet not encroach on that of others.

Pakistan suffers inherently in its understanding of such on two counts.

1) The fact that its still not clear what "state" Pakistan wants to be or is trying to be.

2) The fact that Pakistan is Muslim -and Islam has no place for being secular.

 

[INDIC]

First Russia never invaded Russia. Its a western lie. Russsia came after Afghan Monarch asked their support to develop their armed forces.
Taliban made Afghanistan worse than it was under Russia.

Soviets was not invited by monarch but the marxist leaders of Afghanistan. Those marxist leaders introduced land reforms in Afghanistan distributing land to landless peasants, the move was opposed by mullah in Afghanistan and they rebelled against the government(they are against social equality) and they were aided by Americans and Pakistan.