What's new

Australia's next big problem: India's democracy

Gotto love the totally irrelevant caste system reference:cheesy: I just hope this pathetic Congress led government gets shunned in the next elections.

If you follow closely , Congress tabled FDI reforms in Parliament ..
It was BJP led opposition which blocked it ..

Bjp and Congress both had the numbers , if BJP had shown maturity .. Allies wouldn't have needed to pass the reforms
 
.
The biggest source is a lack of pressure, total complacency by the political parties here, only when times get real bad like 1991, everyone agrees for action.

That's my point. Is it complacency, or direct representation of constituents' interests?

If a sufficient number of Indian citizens feel that foreign retail giants like WalMart are not in their interests, shouldn't their elected politicians represent that position? You could argue that their (short term) interests are hindering the greater (long term) good of the nation, but that claim should be proved through education and debate. Also, the government should offer some compensatory alternatives to these people. I suppose it could be cynically seen as 'buying votes', but if the greater good demands it, maybe it's ok.
 
.
If you follow closely , Congress tabled FDI reforms in Parliament ..
It was BJP led opposition which blocked it ..

Bjp and Congress both had the numbers , if BJP had shown maturity .. Allies wouldn't have needed to pass the reforms

Thats just one issue though. There are countless other issues UPA has done nothing about in hopes of keeping its vote bank secure. They fcked everything in two terms, its time to give BJP another chance.

13331190.cms


Three years of UPA-II: Scams, policy paralysis and economic mess - The Economic Times
 
.
Here's a nasty thought: the big threat to Australia's commodities-underwritten prosperity extending out to 2030 and beyond is India's democracy. Much worse though is the threat that irresponsible democracy poses to India itself.

Present crises aside, Australia is supposed to live happily ever after thanks to India picking up the commodities demand slack as the Chinese economy matures, thus extending our resources boom for another decade or two, giving us yet more time, money and opportunity to restructure into a smart country by investing much more heavily in education.

But as we saw in speeches by BHP's chairman and CEO last week, the world's biggest miner is no longer buying that story.

The Goldilocks scenario was based on the assumption that India would follow much the same path of industrialisation and urbanisation as China is and the likes of Japan, Taiwan and Korea did. They, in turn, travelled much the same road as the US and Europe had a century or two ago, experiencing massive restructuring, productivity growth and wealth creation as their societies were transformed by the growth of cities and moving up the value chain from being primarily agrarian.

There's one big difference though – India is a democracy. It is arguable that no country has undergone such a revolution as a genuine democracy. The leap involved in a populous nation industrialising tends to involve plenty of hard and nasty stuff as the status quo is overturned – land being cleared of peasants, established rent seekers replaced by a new order, societies uprooted and overturned.

The established Asian economic powers weren't democracies when they passed through that stage and China definitely isn't now. Universal suffrage remains a relatively recent phenomenon, post-dating the European and American industrial revolutions. The US might have come closest to it, but only a minority of Americans had the vote (women and blacks were excluded just for starters) as it absorbed “your tired, your poor” and created wealth in various dark mills.

To state the obvious, India is different. By most reckonings of the standard development curve, India is travelling somewhere between 15 and 20 years behind China. Of particular interest to Australia, its steel intensity has barely started to take off. If India was to follow the Chinese example, the economic benefits would be massive, lifting hundreds of millions of people out of extreme poverty. It's been expressed in various ways, but Deng Xiaoping arguably did more to alleviate poverty than all the world's NGOs, charities and United Nations agencies combined.

Krishna knows India urgently needs to follow the established pattern. Cheap labor certainly is exploited in the social sense, but has scarcely begun to be in the economic sense – the poor are just exploited and kept in their place.

As China moves into the next phases of higher value manufacturing, as robots move into Guangdong factories, India barely has manufacturing industry thanks to a conspiracy of poisonous protectionism, stifling bureaucracy and endemic corruption, never mind the gross waste of resources that is the caste system.

India's great success stories in technology and outsourcing, from software engineering to call centres, have been achieved because they are new industries that didn't have the dead hands of protectionism and bureaucracy upon them and thus allowed the entrepreneurial skills of well educated people to blossom.

But while those new service industries have thrived, fuelling a burgeoning middle class of a hundred million or considerably more (depending on how you care to measure it), it remains a fraction of the whole. Yes, India produces hoards of talented university graduates, but more than a quarter of the population is illiterate. GE, Microsoft and IBM have Indian research centres, but the garbage dumps are combed by rag pickers who try to make a living by recycling plastic bags. India is a nuclear power, but the fuel of necessity for many remains dried cow pats.

And looming over everything is a fearful demographic imperative. India, running hard to stand still for most of its nearly 1.2 billion people, is on track to add another half a billion or so by 2050. (And a worryingly disproportionate percentage of those new citizens are male, but that's another story.)

A feudal agricultural system won't cope with that and the difficulties in establishing manufacturing and building infrastructure prevent the necessary job creation to support the population. The weight of the status quo fights against the necessary change, a status quo imposed by a vibrantly dysfunctional democracy.

An Economist magazine cover story in March editorialised around three recent examples of the nation's political paralysis:

“First, the government announced that it was at last opening its inefficient retail industry to foreign firms — only to change its mind within days. This month, to protect industry at home, it banned the export of cotton, upsetting India's farmers and trading partners; within days, it backtracked. And last week the government moved to overrule the Supreme Court and change the tax code to tax foreign takeovers retroactively, not least Vodafone's purchase of its Indian arm. Some worry that the rule of law, one of India's great strengths, is being eroded.

“No wonder business is in a sulk and investment is falling. Red tape and corruption, always present, seem to have got worse — in recent state elections so many banknotes were doled out that they help explain a liquidity problem in the banking system. Longstanding bottlenecks have not been tackled. Partly as a result, inflation is high and stubborn.

“Every one of these problems involves the state, still huge and crazy after all these years. Few ever thought it could be reformed easily. But the hope was that a wily private sector would allow India to sprint to prosperity regardless. That view now looks romantic. It is not just a matter of a lack of the public services, from roads to power, that any economy needs, particularly if manufacturing is to thrive — as it must in India if the millions entering the workforce every year are to find jobs. Lately the state has found other ways to muck things up.”

Increasingly fractured and corrupt politics failing to deal with India's enormous challenges now means the nation is being set up for greater crises as its population boom rolls on. The pro-India cheer squad cites its demographics and democracy as reasons for the Indian tiger to eventually overtake the Chinese dragon, but while China's one-child policy has become a demographic problem and it suffers from not having enough democracy, India's quickly growing population and rampant democracy may prove even more dangerous.

Should the day arrive when one brand or another of authoritarianism – nationalistic, religious or military – is able to seize control through gross government failure, lack of demand for Australian coking coal could be the least of the region's concerns.


Australia's next big problem: India's democracy

Congress governments are responsible for this type of humiliating news for India, as they never adopted any ‘strong’ steps to reduce Indian population ‘forcefully’. Total poverty of India is now only because of its over population. Even if India adopted Open Market policy since 1991, its was very ‘late’ as compare to China and ASEAN region who had adopted the similar economic policy since 70s? we find India government either ‘late’ or ‘ignorant’ on the key policies, which would be said “Policy Paralysis”. Total population of India below poverty line is 350mil right now while even total population of India was around just 850mil by 1991? So even if we adopted similar economic policy like other Asian tigers, ‘lately’, India is still categorized as a poor country?

we would first try to analyse the situation and then make any conclusion. Share of agriculture in India’s GDP is hardly 17% while over 50% of Indian population is dependent on agriculture only. This way, if we consider GDP of India on PPP at around $7.2tn with including undocumented part also, similar to the old method which was in application till 2006, (considering it 62% more than $4.5tn estimated in 2011 by new method).

"There are, however, practical difficulties in deriving GDP at PPP, and we now have two different estimates of the PPP conversion factor for 2005. India's GDP at PPP is estimated at $ 5.16 trillion or $ 3.19 trillion depending on whether the old or new conversion factor is used," it said.

It's official: India's a trillion-$ economy - Times Of India

from here, you find share of 600mil Indian people dependent of agriculture in India’s GDP = 0.17*7.2= $1.2tn with per capita income on PPP at around just $2,000 (almost).

But this also means that share of GDP of rest of 600mil Indians dependent on industries and service is = $7.2 - $1.2 = $6.0tn with per capita income on PPP at around $10,000 (almost).

this way if you consider around 300mil labours working in Industrial and Service sectors with per capita income of $3,000 (say) with a share of $900bil in Indian GDP then it leave around $5.1tn for rest 300mil people of industry/service sector with per capita income of around $17,000 on PPP who are of similar income countries like Argentina, Poland etc of ‘Very High HDI’ countries. And also it is estimated that apart from these 300 upper middle class from Industries and Service Sector, India would have at least 40mil middle class from those 600mil people based on agriculture also. so this way you have around 340mil Upper Middle Income people with Very High HDI which is more than total population of India in 1947, at the time of freedom? :meeting:

But the question here we have, even if Indian middle class pay very high subsidies for the 600mil people based on agriculture, what else can be done to bring them up?

As per statistics, India provides around Rs855 billion subsidy to its farmers to reduce their production cost, whereas Pakistan hardly spends Rs8 billion in this regard.

MFN status to ruin agriculture, industry alike | The Nation

here, if you ask the Western nations to bear subsidy of Indian poor then will they accept? :what: then isnt it a success as India as a nation to have 340mil Upper Middle Class who may afford cost of subsidies of Indian poor, the number of Indian Upper Middle Class which is equal to total population of India at the time of freedom, 1947? :cheers:
 
.
and here comes the racist troll "Hello_10" with his false claims and conspiracy theories.

Right on time.
 
.
and here comes the racist troll "Hello_10" with his false claims and conspiracy theories.

Right on time.

prove yourself :tup:

i gave you a reference showing GDP of India on PPP would be around 62% more than $4.5tn in 2011, if we adopt the old method which was in application till 2006, you would also google by yourself and confirm, what it means :pop:

and check Per Capita Income on PPP of Argentina and Poland type countries, both have in the range of $16,000 to $20,000 and are categorized with Very High HDI countries :pop:

I have counted at least 340mil Upper Middle Class in India with Very High HDI, in my post #19, more that total population of India in 1947, at the time of freedom. you would also come with 'credible' calculations/ references to prove whatever you want to say on this international political forum, you are most welcome :mps:


(I would also like to inform that in year 2005, difference of GDP on PPP for the developed nations were just 2% to 5%. and even for a country like Brazil, Argentina, Thailand, Malaysia, Poland type countries, it was only 5% to 10% difference, no more. but for India, China, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh type high populated 'developing' countries, the difference was in the range of 40% to 70%. it means, if per capita income of Bangladesh was $1,700 on PPP last year then it would be around $3,000 by old method and if the per capita income of Brazil on PPP was $10,200 in 2011 then it would be around just $11,000 by old method. it is also believed that by old method of measuring GDP on PPP, China had became the biggest economy even by 2010.........)
 
.
prove yourself :tup:

i gave you a reference showing GDP of India on PPP would be around 62% more than $4.5tn in 2011, if we adopt the old method which was in application till 2006, you would also google by yourself and confirm, what it means :pop:

and check Per Capita Income on PPP of Argentina and Poland type countries, both have in the range of $16,000 to $20,000 and are categorized with Very High HDI countries :pop:

I have counted at least 340mil Upper Middle Class in India with Very High HDI, in my post #19, more that total population of India in 1947, at the time of freedom. you would also come with 'credible' calculations/ references to prove whatever you want to say on this international political forum, you are most welcome :mps:

(I would also like to inform that in year 2005, difference of GDP on PPP for the developed nations were just 2% to 5%. and even for a country like Brazil, Argentina, Thailand, Malaysia, Poland type countries, it was only 5% to 10% difference, no more. but for India, China, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh type high populated 'developing' countries, the difference was in the range of 40% to 70%. it means, if per capita income of Bangladesh was $1,700 on PPP last year then it would be around $3,000 by old method and if the per capita income of Brazil on PPP was $10,200 in 2011 then it would be around just $11,000 by old method. it is also believed that by old method of measuring GDP on PPP, China had became the biggest economy even by 2010.........)

I didnt get reply from other members but if we use the method of measuring GDP on PPP which was in applicable till 2005, GDP on PPP of India by 2011 would be at least 62% more than the estimated $4.45, around $7.2tn, thus with per capita income at $6,000 for 1.2 bil people by 2011 :cheers:

but im mainly very happy to see total number of Indian upper middle class more than 340mil, more than total population at the time of freedom in 1947, which is more than total population of US, and more than 15 times to the total population of Australia. this simply means that no matter how much minerals Australia has to maintain lifestyle of its hardly 22mil people, land and culture background of India is at least 15 times superior to Australia, whose areas is itself 3 times to India. while at the same time, future growth of India is quite bright due to its high level educational background, while that of Australia is mainly dependent on the number of qualified people they may get from rest of the world who may help run their mining industries to feed their under high school passed people.............
 
.
Here's a nasty thought: the big threat to Australia's commodities-underwritten prosperity extending out to 2030 and beyond is India's democracy. Much worse though is the threat that irresponsible democracy poses to India itself.

Present crises aside, Australia is supposed to live happily ever after thanks to India picking up the commodities demand slack as the Chinese economy matures, thus extending our resources boom for another decade or two, giving us yet more time, money and opportunity to restructure into a smart country by investing much more heavily in education.

But as we saw in speeches by BHP's chairman and CEO last week, the world's biggest miner is no longer buying that story.

The Goldilocks scenario was based on the assumption that India would follow much the same path of industrialisation and urbanisation as China is and the likes of Japan, Taiwan and Korea did. They, in turn, travelled much the same road as the US and Europe had a century or two ago, experiencing massive restructuring, productivity growth and wealth creation as their societies were transformed by the growth of cities and moving up the value chain from being primarily agrarian.

There's one big difference though – India is a democracy. It is arguable that no country has undergone such a revolution as a genuine democracy. The leap involved in a populous nation industrialising tends to involve plenty of hard and nasty stuff as the status quo is overturned – land being cleared of peasants, established rent seekers replaced by a new order, societies uprooted and overturned.

The established Asian economic powers weren't democracies when they passed through that stage and China definitely isn't now. Universal suffrage remains a relatively recent phenomenon, post-dating the European and American industrial revolutions. The US might have come closest to it, but only a minority of Americans had the vote (women and blacks were excluded just for starters) as it absorbed “your tired, your poor” and created wealth in various dark mills.

To state the obvious, India is different. By most reckonings of the standard development curve, India is travelling somewhere between 15 and 20 years behind China. Of particular interest to Australia, its steel intensity has barely started to take off. If India was to follow the Chinese example, the economic benefits would be massive, lifting hundreds of millions of people out of extreme poverty. It's been expressed in various ways, but Deng Xiaoping arguably did more to alleviate poverty than all the world's NGOs, charities and United Nations agencies combined.

Krishna knows India urgently needs to follow the established pattern. Cheap labor certainly is exploited in the social sense, but has scarcely begun to be in the economic sense – the poor are just exploited and kept in their place.

As China moves into the next phases of higher value manufacturing, as robots move into Guangdong factories, India barely has manufacturing industry thanks to a conspiracy of poisonous protectionism, stifling bureaucracy and endemic corruption, never mind the gross waste of resources that is the caste system.

India's great success stories in technology and outsourcing, from software engineering to call centres, have been achieved because they are new industries that didn't have the dead hands of protectionism and bureaucracy upon them and thus allowed the entrepreneurial skills of well educated people to blossom.

But while those new service industries have thrived, fuelling a burgeoning middle class of a hundred million or considerably more (depending on how you care to measure it), it remains a fraction of the whole. Yes, India produces hoards of talented university graduates, but more than a quarter of the population is illiterate. GE, Microsoft and IBM have Indian research centres, but the garbage dumps are combed by rag pickers who try to make a living by recycling plastic bags. India is a nuclear power, but the fuel of necessity for many remains dried cow pats.

And looming over everything is a fearful demographic imperative. India, running hard to stand still for most of its nearly 1.2 billion people, is on track to add another half a billion or so by 2050. (And a worryingly disproportionate percentage of those new citizens are male, but that's another story.)

A feudal agricultural system won't cope with that and the difficulties in establishing manufacturing and building infrastructure prevent the necessary job creation to support the population. The weight of the status quo fights against the necessary change, a status quo imposed by a vibrantly dysfunctional democracy.

An Economist magazine cover story in March editorialised around three recent examples of the nation's political paralysis:

“First, the government announced that it was at last opening its inefficient retail industry to foreign firms — only to change its mind within days. This month, to protect industry at home, it banned the export of cotton, upsetting India's farmers and trading partners; within days, it backtracked. And last week the government moved to overrule the Supreme Court and change the tax code to tax foreign takeovers retroactively, not least Vodafone's purchase of its Indian arm. Some worry that the rule of law, one of India's great strengths, is being eroded.

“No wonder business is in a sulk and investment is falling. Red tape and corruption, always present, seem to have got worse — in recent state elections so many banknotes were doled out that they help explain a liquidity problem in the banking system. Longstanding bottlenecks have not been tackled. Partly as a result, inflation is high and stubborn.

“Every one of these problems involves the state, still huge and crazy after all these years. Few ever thought it could be reformed easily. But the hope was that a wily private sector would allow India to sprint to prosperity regardless. That view now looks romantic. It is not just a matter of a lack of the public services, from roads to power, that any economy needs, particularly if manufacturing is to thrive — as it must in India if the millions entering the workforce every year are to find jobs. Lately the state has found other ways to muck things up.”

Increasingly fractured and corrupt politics failing to deal with India's enormous challenges now means the nation is being set up for greater crises as its population boom rolls on. The pro-India cheer squad cites its demographics and democracy as reasons for the Indian tiger to eventually overtake the Chinese dragon, but while China's one-child policy has become a demographic problem and it suffers from not having enough democracy, India's quickly growing population and rampant democracy may prove even more dangerous.

Should the day arrive when one brand or another of authoritarianism – nationalistic, religious or military – is able to seize control through gross government failure, lack of demand for Australian coking coal could be the least of the region's concerns.


Australia's next big problem: India's democracy

Australia's main problem is their under high school passed people, a majority of those who are "Hand to Mouth", earn 5 days and spend on weekends, and they have got a hate in their society while thinking why migrants are doing white coller jobs and earn twice than the local white labors? their society have got Hate Crime while seeing highly qualified migrants more successful and their only proud is their minerals, nothing else.......

The median household income for US residents born in India is $91,195 against a $50,740 average for the total population

Indian Americans: The fastest growing and the highest income group

and similar news we get from britain also as below:

British National Party
 
.
Just ignore the racist, irrelevant, offtopicness from Hello_10.

He does this in every thread about Australia.
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom