Australia bans Muslim women’s veil

[Devil Soul]

Australia Police Get Power To Demand Removal Of Burqas
SYDNEY, July 5, 2011 (AFP) -Police in the Australian state of New South Wales have been handed broad-based powers to demand the removal of burqas and other face veils so they can identify people suspected of committing a crime.

The state government approved the move late Monday after the recent case of a Muslim woman who was acquitted when a judge ruled she could not be positively identified because was wearing a burqa.

"I don't care whether a person is wearing a motorcycle helmet, a burqa, niqab, face veil or anything else, the police should be allowed to require those people to make their identification clear," Premier Barry O'Farrell said.

Anyone who refuses to show their face could be jailed for up to a year or fined Aus$5,500 ($5,900).

It follows the high-profile case of Carnita Matthews, who in November 2010 was sentenced to six months jail for falsely accusing police of forcibly trying to remove her burqa when she was stopped for a traffic offence.

Her sentence was quashed last month when a magistrate said he could not be 100 percent sure it was Matthews who made the complaint because officers were not able to see the face of the accuser.

New South Wales state Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione demanded a clarification of the law and O'Farrell said the new powers should help prevent a recurrence of such cases.

"I have every respect for various religions and beliefs but when it comes to enforcing the law the police should be given adequate powers to make a clear identification," said O'Farrell.

Police previously had the power to ask women to remove face veils during the investigation of serious offences, but not on more routine matters.

The Islamic Council of New South Wales said it accepted the decision

"If you're asked to do something by a police officer and it's legitimate, then you do it," council chairman Khaled Sukkarieh told ABC radio.

The Muslim Women's Association said it would prefer that a female police officer was on hand when the veils were removed and if that happened then "nobody could really complain".

The Police Association of NSW welcomed the move, saying it was a loophole that had to be closed.

"It will provide clarity and certainty for both the public and for police officers," the union's acting president Pat Gooley said in a statement.

While Queensland state said it would not go down the same path, Western Australia indicated it may follow suit with the state's police minister due to meet the police commissioner later Tuesday.

 

[Devil Soul]

New Zealand PM Says Muslim Veil No Excuse For Discrimination
WELLINGTON, July 5, 2011 (AFP) -New Zealand Prime Minister John Key on Tuesday said Muslim women wearing veils should not face discrimination, after two Saudi women were reportedly ordered off buses due to their attire.

Saudi diplomats in New Zealand had raised concerns with the government after two separate incidents in Auckland where women were told to get off buses because they were wearing full-face veils, the Dominion Post reported.

In one case, a Saudi Arabian student was left crying on the street after the bus driver shouted "Out!" then shut the doors on her and drove off, the newspaper said.

Key said he was comfortable with women wearing veils, adding: "It doesn't offend me. It's part of people's beliefs."

He decribed New Zealand as a tolerant and inclusive society, saying he saw no need to ban Islamic veils in public, as France has done.

"I think where practical, and on both sides, people should respect others' culture and cultural beliefs," Key told reporters.

"There is practical reasons why sometimes a burqa won't be applicable -- banks for example, for security reasons from time to time they will enforce that.

"But for the most part we are a multi-cultural society and we should respect other's cultural beliefs."

In April, France became the first country in Europe to apply a ban on the wearing of full-face coverings, including the Islamic niqab and the burqa.

The country's largest bus operator, NZ Bus, which was involved in both Auckland incidents, said two drivers had been sent on counselling programmes but were not dismissed because their actions were not religiously motivated.

"Both drivers... claim it's not religious... but they genuinely have a phobia of people wearing masks, hence why we have not dismissed them," NZ Bus general manager Jon Calder told the Dominion Post.

The Saudi Arabian consul-general in Auckland declined to comment.

 

[xdrive]

Wearing of the full face veil in countries like Australia and New Zealand is just completely unacceptable. They don't fit in with our values and culture also they pose a very bad security risk.

Just recently in Australia, a muslim woman got off charges of lying to police and making false claims because she was wearing a burqa at the time so the police couldn't tell if it was really her doing it.

So police now have the right to lift the veil to establish a persons identity. There has been many crimes where people have disguised themselfs with the burqa.

Also 60% of human communication is through body language including facial expressions. If your covering your whole face and body, no one will know your intentions.

The burqa is a security risk, and also it's a symbol of oppression. Should be banned in public places.

 

[xdrive]

Wearing of the full face veil in countries like Australia is just completely unacceptable. They don't fit in with our values and culture also they pose a very bad security risk.

Just recently in Australia, a muslim woman got off charges of lying to police and making false claims because she was wearing a burqa at the time so the police couldn't tell if it was really her doing it.

So police now have the right to lift the veil to establish a persons identity. There has been many crimes where people have disguised themselfs with the burqa.

Also 60% of human communication is through body language including facial expressions. If your covering your whole face and body, no one will know your intentions.

The burqa is a security risk, and also it's a symbol of oppression. Should be banned in public places.

You come to Australia, you play by our rules. If you don't want to, stay in your own country.

 

[tallboy123]

how long will muslim men cover muslim women with black sacks?
and are there not a single rape in saudi arabia?

 

[tallboy123]

how long will muslim men cover muslim women with black sacks?
and are there not a single rape in saudi arabia?

 

[kawaraj]

Wearing of the full face veil in countries like Australia is just completely unacceptable. They don't fit in with our values and culture also they pose a very bad security risk.
Just recently in Australia, a muslim woman got off charges of lying to police and making false claims because she was wearing a burqa at the time so the police couldn't tell if it was really her doing it.
So police now have the right to lift the veil to establish a persons identity. There has been many crimes where people have disguised themselfs with the burqa.
Also 60% of human communication is through body language including facial expressions. If your covering your whole face and body, no one will know your intentions.
The burqa is a security risk, and also it's a symbol of oppression. Should be banned in public places.
You come to Australia, you play by our rules. If you don't want to, stay in your own country.

Nice try. Burqa is part of tradition and if you don't respect ours. next time you travel to an Muslim nation, make sure your female family members to wear Burqa before they get arrested.

 

[lem34]

how long will muslim men cover muslim women with black sacks?
and are there not a single rape in saudi arabia?

Funny you should equate it to muslim men only. I was speaking sometime ago to a wise hindu freind of mine and we were discussing the veil. He interrupted me to say you know this covering of women was a regional think and cultural rather than based on religion. He went on to say that in parts India this existed before muslims came to india and he went on to explain in detail that the reason for it was that there was a tendancy to marry very young and often you would find a man in his twenties with a daughter in law in the house in her teens. The covering up was to avoid improper thoughts etc.

As far as islam goes I am no expert but am aware that when women perform Hajj they are supposed to not cover their face.


I think sadly you have to accept that men of all religions have abused women at some time or the other.

 

[lem34]

Wearing of the full face veil in countries like Australia is just completely unacceptable. They don't fit in with our values and culture also they pose a very bad security risk.

Just recently in Australia, a muslim woman got off charges of lying to police and making false claims because she was wearing a burqa at the time so the police couldn't tell if it was really her doing it.

So police now have the right to lift the veil to establish a persons identity. There has been many crimes where people have disguised themselfs with the burqa.

Also 60% of human communication is through body language including facial expressions. If your covering your whole face and body, no one will know your intentions.

The burqa is a security risk, and also it's a symbol of oppression. Should be banned in public places.

You come to Australia, you play by our rules. If you don't want to, stay in your own country.

I have been brought up in england and like you sometimes seeing a lot of burkas frightens me and I dont particularly subscribe to it. However there are certain parts of london where hassidic jews have long hair with hats and that also worries/frightens me. However I would never try to force my dress sence or code on anyone. Tolerance is a value which I thought I had learned from your way of life and something that was endearing about the west. Sadly I think that west likes to see it self as tolerant reasonable etc but no longer is. I do not know the statistics but I think the number of women wering the burka is very small to the point of insignificance I think this is just western countries symbollically humiliating those muslims.

 

[luckyyy]

Wearing of the full face veil in countries like Australia is just completely unacceptable. They don't fit in with our values and culture also they pose a very bad security risk.

Just recently in Australia, a muslim woman got off charges of lying to police and making false claims because she was wearing a burqa at the time so the police couldn't tell if it was really her doing it.

So police now have the right to lift the veil to establish a persons identity. There has been many crimes where people have disguised themselfs with the burqa.

Also 60% of human communication is through body language including facial expressions. If your covering your whole face and body, no one will know your intentions.

The burqa is a security risk, and also it's a symbol of oppression. Should be banned in public places.

You come to Australia, you play by our rules. If you don't want to, stay in your own country.

you have a valid point on security :
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...rorists-captured-innangarhar.html#post1916645

 

[saleen_s7]

Wearing of the full face veil in countries like Australia and New Zealand is just completely unacceptable. They don't fit in with our values and culture also they pose a very bad security risk.

Just recently in Australia, a muslim woman got off charges of lying to police and making false claims because she was wearing a burqa at the time so the police couldn't tell if it was really her doing it.

So police now have the right to lift the veil to establish a persons identity. There has been many crimes where people have disguised themselfs with the burqa.

Also 60% of human communication is through body language including facial expressions. If your covering your whole face and body, no one will know your intentions.

The burqa is a security risk, and also it's a symbol of oppression. Should be banned in public places.

I do agree with a lot of points you made, although I think you are exaggerating to justify your racist, stereotypical views against a minority. I think you are right, the Niqab does not get along with the modern 21st century culture. You would be surprised, but I haven't seen as many people wearing the Niqab in Bangladesh than I have seen in some parts of London. I find this extremely alarming, and I think the only reason is because the minorities feel threatened and weak, which is why they segregate themselves from the society. I don't think banning ever works, so banning the Burqa would be just another failed attempt which will have deadly consequences as it will be seen as an attack on the entire religion which will tick off the extremist elements.

 

[Bang Galore]

I think sadly you have to accept that men of all religions have abused women at some time or the other.

Truer words were never spoken! Men have been men, whatever be their religion. However your friend is incorrect in suggesting that purdah was followed in India before the advent of Muslims. It directly derives from the cultural exchange brought out by the presence of Muslims in N.India. (the rajputs were one of the first to accept this practice). This system was largely unknown in S.India except in areas of significant Muslim influence.

I think however the practice of a veil, especially in western countries would be out of place. One of the concepts behind the veil is to protect modesty because "it may lead to men having impure thoughts". While that idea may be logical in places with a complete Muslim population where everyone follows the practice, its working in a society where the majority of women are not Muslims would be illogical on the face of it. If Muslim women wore a veil, then the Muslim men would just be "tempted" by those who don't. In those countries, maybe a better idea would be to put blinkers on Muslim men who might otherwise be tempted.

 

[xdrive]

although I think you are exaggerating

Nope not at all. I can provide evidence for everything i said.

to justify your racist

Nothing i said was racist. I did not mention ANYONES race in my post. Islam is not a race either.

stereotypical views against a minority

I didnt say any sterotypical view. Did you even read my post?

I find this extremely alarming, and I think the only reason is because the minorities feel threatened and weak, which is why they segregate themselves from the society.

This has nothing to do with minorities feling threatened/weak and segregating themselves. Did you actually read my post at all?

The burqa poses a security risk and it does not fit in with our culture and society.

I don't think banning ever works, so banning the Burqa would be just another failed attempt which will have deadly consequences as it will be seen as an attack on the entire religion which will tick off the extremist elements.

It's not an attack on islam at all. Muslims are free to wear the hijab head scarf. But the burqa is unacceptable.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

Pakistani police should have this right too. Oh well they already do. Debates are for soft countries.

Wearing of the full face veil in countries like Australia is just completely unacceptable. They don't fit in with our values and culture ...

Also 60% of human communication is through body language including facial expressions. If your covering your whole face and body, no one will know your intentions. ...

I thought your values were the not talking face to face. Everybody texts or phones.

...also they pose a very bad security risk.

Not in Australia it doesn't. In Pakistan it might.

...
also it's a symbol of oppression....

Freedom if you cared to use those brain cells. I'm a man who wants to wear a burqa, I don't like being looked at. And I think it's a little unfair that you discriminate against me.

...
You come to Australia, you play by our rules. If you don't want to, stay in your own country.

Absolutely fine. I'm not coming to Occupied Aboriginal Lands. But what about the Australians who wish to don a burqa? They're your real problem.

 

[xdrive]

Nice try. Burqa is part of tradition and if you don't respect ours. next time you travel to an Muslim nation, make sure your female family members to wear Burqa before they get arrested.

You raised a point. If people from my country travel to a muslim nation, we are forced to wear it. The burqa is unacceptable in our country so you should not wear it. If don't agree with our rules, don't come here. It's simple.

If you immigrate to our country, you fellow our rules, our law, our values and our culture.

The burqa is a security risk and is against our values and culture.