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Attempted IAF incursion - A Failed operation

Should we retaliate?

  • Yes

    Votes: 154 87.5%
  • No

    Votes: 22 12.5%

  • Total voters
    176
Qari sahb preaching wisdom in every post. :lol:


True

I'm not a Qari. These are words of wisdom from Hadrat Ali (ra), so I don't know why you are laughing. I will ask again, provide proof that I was badmouthing other members:) This discussion will end if you admit your mistake. A person who notices his shortcomings and tries to change is a great person. There is no shame, don't be prideful.
 
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You military is incapable of doing that. We flew all the way to Balakote, and returned. Your PAF was twiddling its thumbs, as expected.

It's not about the capability of PAF.
BTW, the way you guys ran with tail between your legs was very brave gesture.
 
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At least they would show something.

What would you show? Other than congratulating each other and acting all tough. :lol:

We have nothing to prove to you. We came, we destroyed(80 Km inside Pakistan), we left(unscathed).

The first and last, you already agree with us. The middle part, you won't. No matter, what, we show.
 
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"Scrambled". Didn't shoot. Hmm, wonder why?

BTW, did you watch BBC Urdu interviewing locals?

Because of very limited action time. Happens in such scenarios.

And yes I have seen BBC video. Claimed only 1 injury unlike hundreds of dead militants.
 
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LoC violation: Defence analysts weigh in after India escalates situation

By Niha Dagia
Published: February 26, 2019
1918676-dtoxlwwkaariy-1551173228-440-640x480.jpg

PHOTO: ISPR

KARACHI: The deteriorating ties between Islamabad and New Delhi took a tumultuous turn early Tuesday when the Indian Air Force (IAF) violated the Line of Control (LoC).

Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force (PAF), the IAF aircraft released their payload in haste while escaping, said Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations Major General Asif Ghafoor. The payload, released by IAF Mirage 2000, fell near Balakot.

Initially, India’s defence ministry denied knowledge of the incident. “I have no information,” Reuters quoted an Indian defence ministry spokesperson.

In the wake of the confusion surrounding the incident, The Express Tribune reached to defence analysts to make sense of the prevailing situation.

Shortly after, Indian Foreign Secretary Vijay Ghokhale read out a statement regarding the LoC incident and claimed IAF had carried out airstrikes.

Chairman for Center for Research and Security Studies Imtiaz Gul said the veracity of the Indian claims was difficult to ascertain as they issued no visual evidence. He also questioned Ghokhale’s refusal to take questions in the press conference.

Brigadier (retd) Asad Munir echoed the same opinion. “The IAF should have footage from the aircraft that dropped the bombs – they should release the visuals to back their claim.”

Munir pointed out that even the Indian media was using images shared by ISPR. “Why did their foreign secretary not entertain questions in the press conference? Even the Indian side is confused about the location of the ‘attack’.”

Former director of ‘Sector for Air Power Studies’ Air Commodore Jamal Hussain stressed that if the IAF used Mirage 2000s then they intended to attack. “Mirage 2000 is not used to check response time. They certainly intended to carry out a surgical strike.”

Gul added that the area IAF claims to have targeted was difficult to distinguish. “A Mirage 2000 travels at around 1,680 miles/hour – at this speed, the fighter jet can easily cross into another country’s airspace.”

Observing that the images from the site issued by the ISPR did not show remnants of an explosion, Hussain suggested the possibility that the bomb may have ‘malfunctioned’ or the IAF pilot “may have forgotten to turn off the safety switch before unloading it.”

He maintained that both Pakistan and India have strong air defence. “The two sides are able to carry out swift surprise air raids within 30 kilometres of the border without being intercepted by the adversary’s fighters that are on ground alert,” he said.

“The misconception about immediate response has to be demystified. A fighter jet flies at the speed of 1000s of kilometres per hour – it can reach the target area within minutes. The response time for a fighter jet to reach incursion site varies from at least five to 10 minutes.”

“It is impossible to counter the attack, however, we can retaliate,” he explained. “Be it Pakistan, India or even the United States – no country can have fighter aircraft on watch 24/7. It is too costly.”

As India faces doubts over the accuracy of its claims due to the failure of credible evidence, Gul suggested Pakistan armed forces take the initiative by allowing foreign and local media access to the site.

“A tour of the site to inspect the damage caused and the debris left behind by the IAF can help dismiss the Indian narrative.”

He added the ISPR should arrange a visit to the area similar to the one they had organised after the Uri attack. “We should call their [India’s] bluff by allowing media access.”

Munir asserted that the ‘surgical strike’ was staged by the Indian government for “local consumption ahead of the upcoming polls.”

It may be mentioned here that the right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is looking to secure another term in the general elections.

Hussain believes the Narendra Modi-led government needed theatrics to placate the rising calls for vengeance. “By telling the people that the Pulwama attack has been avenged, the BJP has cemented its position. Modi needed an escape route; he found one in a surgical strike.”

Armed forces fully prepared to respond to Indian aggression: ISPR

“The Pulwama attack was carried out by Kashmiris – even their army general admitted that the material used in the bomb was local,” said Munir.

The retired army official added that the JeM narrative pushed by India is “old intelligence”. He stressed that there were no organised JeM trainee camps.

“There may be certain elements affiliated with the JeM. In the 2000s, the JeM was banished, it moved to North Waziristan and began an onslaught against the army. Masood Azhar planned an attack on former army general Pervez Musharraf as well.”

Hussain, however, warned against any aggressive reaction from Pakistan. “We should maintain our stance – present facts about the LoC violation before the international community. At the same time, we should give peace a chance.”

He said now that the Indian government has managed to placate its masses, they will also be open to dialogue.

Speaking to The Express Tribune, Deputy Director of the Asia Program Michael Kugelman said it was a tense moment but neither sides would want the situation to escalate. “We can expect a war of words and some tough talk, but beyond that, I imagine things will soon settle.”

“At this point, the big question is how Pakistan responds,” he said. “What it does, if anything, in response to India’s claimed attack will go a long way toward determining just how deep tensions could become.”

https://tribune.com.pk/story/191867...nce-analysts-weigh-india-escalates-situation/
 
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We have nothing to prove to you. We came, we destroyed, we left(unscathed). The first and last, you already agree with us. The middle part, you won't. No matter, what, we show.

You have everything to prove. You lost 40 soldiers. Prove it because we don't believe an ugly rapist.
 
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By now any professional airforce would have released the footage of such an assault to back up their claim, given the public pressure that was created by their own doing or perhaps we might still have to wait for them as we still have been for the fake surgical strikes 1.0

Most importantly, people who are questioning PAF's response are mostly doing that out of utter ignorance. There is an agreement between the two countries that no fixed-wing aircraft can come within 10-kms of LoC, that is a redline and PAF can only scramble its jets once that's breached. Given the response time of a few minutes, it's not at all surprising that Indian jets intruded a few kms inside AJK, as fighter jets cover miles within a minute, a d returned back to their bases once Indian radars detected Pakistani jets in motion.

The question here is now, by dropping the payload, India has to prove that they hit legit targets and not just dropped their wieght at some random place and claiming it as a big hit. They failed to provide any evidence in 2016 and that would be the question again this time around.

Right now Indian government is only playing to the gallery with the help of their jingoistic media and once the usual chest-thumping dies down, serious questions will be asked. To avoid that later situation, they have intelligently cultivated a situation to extract a retaliation from Pakistan, DG ISPR's hasty initial press conference helped this Indian ploy and he needs to be shown the door for making that mistake.

Lastly, I am among the minority who voted against retaliating, as it would help us fall into the Indian ploy and I believe PAF's response was spot on and they responded well. As for intrusion, just to give an analogy, even Pakistani helicopters intruded into Indian airspace twice in 2018 alone so things need to be taken into their perspective and we shouldn't get all haywire just because the enemy claims something which THEY have to prove.
 
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We have nothing to prove to you. We came, we destroyed, we left(unscathed). The first and last, you already agree with us. The middle part, you won't. No matter, what, we show.

Same would be done by us since it has become all too easy. Just take potshots and run away. We might do the same.

You indians have made it all so easy. :lol:

But still do share something in next 10-20 years about those dead militants. We would wait

We Will do it again when threshold broken

surgical strike 1.0 Army
surgical strike 2.0 air force
surgical strike 3.0 Navy

surgical strike 4.0 bollywood
 
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Eyewitness account

Villagers in the area said only one person was wounded in the attack and they knew of no fatalities, reported Reuters.

From what villagers could see, the Indian attack had missed its supposed target as the bombs dropped exploded about a kilometre away from any structure.

Mohammad Ajmal, a 25 year-old villager in the area, where the attack took place, said he had heard four loud bangs in succession just before 3:00am.

“We couldn’t tell what had happened. It was only in the morning that we figured out it was an attack,” he told Reuters after visiting the site, in a wooded hilltop area.

“We saw fallen trees and one damaged house, and four craters where the bombs had fallen.”

Fida Hussain Shah, a 46 year-old farmer, said he and other villagers had found pieces of Indian ordnance that had splintered pine trees on the hill but the only casualty was a man sleeping in his house when shrapnel broke the windows.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1918363/1-indian-warplanes-violate-loc-drop-payload-near-balakot/
 
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I'm not a Qari. These are words of wisdom from Hadrat Ali (ra), so I don't know why you are laughing. I will ask again, provide proof that I was badmouthing other members:) This discussion will end if you admit your mistake. A person who notices his shortcomings and tries to change is a great person. There is no shame, don't be prideful.
Stop crying & wasting bandwidth of PDF. :lol:
 
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It's about the capability of PAF.
BTW, the way you guys ran with tail between your legs was very brave gesture.

Yes, it's about the non-existent defensive capability of the PAF. Weren't they supposed to shoot us down?

We came, we bombed, we returned. If you call that running with tail and whatnot, more power to you.

Shoot us down if you can. You can't.
 
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Eyewitness account

Villagers in the area said only one person was wounded in the attack and they knew of no fatalities, reported Reuters.

From what villagers could see, the Indian attack had missed its supposed target as the bombs dropped exploded about a kilometre away from any structure.

Mohammad Ajmal, a 25 year-old villager in the area, where the attack took place, said he had heard four loud bangs in succession just before 3:00am.

“We couldn’t tell what had happened. It was only in the morning that we figured out it was an attack,” he told Reuters after visiting the site, in a wooded hilltop area.

“We saw fallen trees and one damaged house, and four craters where the bombs had fallen.”

Fida Hussain Shah, a 46 year-old farmer, said he and other villagers had found pieces of Indian ordnance that had splintered pine trees on the hill but the only casualty was a man sleeping in his house when shrapnel broke the windows.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1918363/1-indian-warplanes-violate-loc-drop-payload-near-balakot/

Says it all. The Indians thought they could enter Pak air space and bomb at will. They couldn't and PAF scrambled. The IAF had to empty their expensive bombs in an empty forest terrain. What kind of vengeance is this?
 
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