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Attack on PNS Mehran Base - PAF Faisal Base

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Did he just rolled off the bed , put on his beret and came to fight terrorists armed to the teeth. Where is his uniform, bullet proof jacket and webbing. I saw in news many of your Ranger soldiers walking around wearing T-Shirts with name RANGER stamped on the back. Is this not their drill uniform. Why are they wearing this in a combat zone. Their SOP kind of sucks.

You don't need to worry...these soldier came as a back up, most of the single 't shirt' soldiers were stationed either at gates or around the perimeter.
Those who took part in the fight were properly geared.
 
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According to military officials and intelligence about 10-12 terrorists laced with sophisticated weapons and grenades entered PNS Mehran PAF Museum.

Does this mean 6-8 terrorists escaped? not good ...


I think 6-8 were killed. 2 escaped and rest blew them up. .
 
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According to military officials and intelligence about 10-12 terrorists laced with sophisticated weapons and grenades entered PNS Mehran PAF Museum.

Does this mean 6-8 terrorists escaped? not good ...

Exactly--- Bang
 
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No need to behave like a nun here.

The guy is probably the one guarding the outer periphery of the naval base, not the one who were actually fighting out the terrorists in a CQB environment. The guys (SSG N, elites etc) always wear BPJs when going inside the hot zone, if you must have seen the news clips regarding the attack you must have seen that there was an hell lot of uniforms outside the base for something like an outer cordon. i know every soldier should be wearing a BPJ, but the question is can we (or for that matter you military) afford them? Please, take some time out and check how many soldier from your regular Army are in possession of BPJs, and here you are 'worried' about a para-military soldier.


This still didn't answer why they are wearing T-Shirts to work or is that it is the Pakistani tradition.
 
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aey arz-e-Pak teri hurmat pe kat mary hum
hai khoon teri ragun mein ab tak rawan humara.


A brave soldier.

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OK smart one... You know what the intent of the terrorists were... they wanted to take out the aircrafts but let me ask you, given this is a defence base and is one of the most gaurded and fortified one, why did Pakistan army take so long and why could they not catch atleast one alive ? Why e ?
The whole ball game changes when these rats are wearing suicide vest. Chances of capturing them alive are as minimal as can be. What do you do? You corner them they blow themselves up, you shoot their limbs, they detonate, you get close to them, they press the trigger even quicker to take you out as well.
I don't know why Indian members ask such questions, either they're enjoying it, or seeking attention but honestly its really not worth answering some of you guys questions let alone getting into a debate.
 
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The whole ball game changes when these rats are wearing suicide vest. Chances of capturing them alive are as minimal as can be. What do you do? You corner them they blow themselves up, you shoot their limbs, they detonate, you get close to them, they press the trigger even quicker to take you out as well.
I don't know why Indian members ask such questions, either they're enjoying it, or seeking attention but honestly its really not worth answering some of you guys questions let alone getting into a debate.

Sorry dude ... I had no idea they were wearing suicide vests. Missed that bit.
 
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So

The question I have is...

where are the resignations and dismissals??

Oh wait... some of them are looking for extensions actually... Why not... Let the world know that we reward incompetency... after all we reward treacherous treason why not stupidity and moronity also??

Shame on Pakistan Armed Forces... Saari Dunya Main Naak Katwa Dee... Ab to Naak Bhe Nahi Bachi...

For God sake get your acts right you fools... Pull up your socks... Eject US from our country and stop drone attacks...

and if you dont listen to this... Let me assure you... We will be humiliated again... Our enemy is very wise and patient... and you have seen their capability... I have my ears locked on some channels and believe me they have absolutely no fear of Pak Army anymore... They are going to strike again... and we are edging towards a full blown civil war...

Someone in America and India is very happy and satisfied with all this...
 
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So

The question I have is...

where are the resignations and dismissals??

Oh wait... some of them are looking for extensions actually... Why not... Let the world know that we reward incompetency... after all we reward treacherous treason why not stupidity and moronity also??

Shame on Pakistan Armed Forces... Saari Dunya Main Naak Katwa Dee... Ab to Naak Bhe Nahi Bachi...

For God sake get your acts right you fools... Pull up your socks... Eject US from our country and stop drone attacks...

and if you dont listen to this... Let me assure you... We will be humiliated again... Our enemy is very wise and patient... and you have seen their capability... I have my ears locked on some channels and believe me they have absolutely no fear of Pak Army anymore... They are going to strike again... and we are edging towards a full blown civil war...

Someone in America and India is very happy and satisfied with all this...


you think they are going to resign now when Navy needs more P-3 Orions. .
 
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So

The question I have is...

where are the resignations and dismissals??

Oh wait... some of them are looking for extensions actually... Why not... Let the world know that we reward incompetency... after all we reward treacherous treason why not stupidity and moronity also??

Shame on Pakistan Armed Forces... Saari Dunya Main Naak Katwa Dee... Ab to Naak Bhe Nahi Bachi...

For God sake get your acts right you fools... Pull up your socks... Eject US from our country and stop drone attacks...

and if you dont listen to this... Let me assure you... We will be humiliated again... Our enemy is very wise and patient... and you have seen their capability... I have my ears locked on some channels and believe me they have absolutely no fear of Pak Army anymore... They are going to strike again... and we are edging towards a full blown civil war...

Someone in America and India is very happy and satisfied with all this...


Nope I actually condemn what happened. And may the innocent lives RIP.. Both India and pakistan face a common threat that needs to be exterminated. However with increasing funds (from a suspected source) it only gives little hope to finally eradicate parasites such as these.
 
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I guess it is uncharacteristic of me but the way i see it...we need to sacrifice some people even if not guilty of personal failure but failure due to treachery of others.
Just to set an example that if it happens on your watch...it is indeed a failure. In case that we believe the claims that there was no inside hand, then it is even more critical to punish the entire chain of command which was handling security…right to the top commander.
This accountability and shame should start from the base commander himself. He may be a good guy but does not matter anymore.

After all, there is a limit to how much we should tolerate in way of brazen attacks amidst military facilities where the terrorists have a lot of know how where and when to strike and have ample munitions stored conveniently to carry on fighting for many many hours.
Surely the boot needs to be given to certain people and a very clear message needs to be sent to the generals, officers and soldiers...nothing shall go unpunished and it shall start from top.
The soldiers look upto their officers who look upto their generals.
The respect needs to be earned and can be lost when such things happen and no heads are rolled.

The command is supposed to own its mistakes and not disown its failure by singing praises of training and advanced tactics used by the terrorists.
We are at war here after all; we are supposed to be facing a determined enemy.
Instead of analyzing our own mistakes we make the enemy seem 10 times stronger and demoralize the soldiers and the nation who give too much respect to these rabid dogs.

The admiral is not alone in this attitude and that is what worries me.
Is the admiral not following suite here because he has seen other failures which went unpunished?

Sure there were indeed investigations and punishments on a lower level but certainly there has been no senior commander who has yet been sacrificed to ensure that the attitude becomes much more unforgiving towards such negligence.
Would a few high level court martials/resignations over GHQ or Abbottabad not have at least created an environment where there is no shyness in promising punishment for those whose negligence or support resulted in a disaster?

Till heads are not rolling, we shall not see the leaders openly embracing the truth in front of the nation.
I think Military leadership has to set an example of accountability after these series of breaches in our defense. We all need a clear policy defined by our leadership based on ground realities which they should share with us. With civilian and military leadership both defending their decisions and stances we shall not have any strategy shift.
I hope the military uses these breaches to highlight and rectify not only its own shortfalls but also highlight the many reasons why this is happening, to the civilian leadership…Please, throw the ball in the court of civilian leadership and ask them why there is no accountability of support network while military is sent to fight the terrorists. Do raise the question that if on one hand our provincial ministers meet the outlawed and banned outfits which have actually joined up with TTP…how we can achieve clarity about who is the enemy?
Why should we expect that there shall be no split within nation or military if the leadership has not qualified the enemy?
I hope the military leadership realizes that it can indeed save Pakistan but it shall have to start by setting its own house in order and using these measures to drive the political leadership into a corner by demanding a clear cut national policy drafted by civilian leadership which the military and ISI have to follow regarding this phenomena.
Let us ask the civilian leadership to deliver by using this principled approach.

TTP is only strong because we are shy to admit that it has some supporters which walk free...
TTP is only strong because they are sitting on the drug and major smuggling routes and have absorbed all the criminal syndicates to give rise to an uber terrorist mafia which is earning a lot of black money and is also a mercenary force for hire...

TTP can be eliminated but for that we need an approach where all the organs of this mafia are targeted.

Clean up the military wing of militants and terrorists via military actions.
I disagree with Imran Khan here despite always supporting him as a good guy.
He said the same right after Buner operation was launched...yet had we sent him to negotiate with the TTP he would have been butchered by them as well. In this he is not yet completely aware of the power these people hold via twisting Islam.
You need to realize what TTP stands for
To mix them with our own people and look for dialogue is the mistake that has killed thousands of Pakistanis and given rise to their credibility.
We should realize that when you talk with TTP and appoint clerics like Sufi Muhammad as middle men, they are usually able to associate more with each other than with Pakistan and us poor Pakistanis...this is evident when Fazlullah was talked to by Sufi Muhammad and despite Pakistani state bending over...the rascals of TTP instead gloated and demanded more and more....they are power hungry monsters who feed on a twisted religious mentality...they can never ever welcome any stability, development and peace which brings mental growth and maturity.
The clerics are mostly sympathetic to TTP ideology and are certainly not bothered with Pakistan as much as their own power base in the name of Islam...they have a business case with or without Pakistan since by twisting the peoples thoughts their hold over the people is strong.
Actually a destabilized Pakistan suits them since the more chaos there is, the less education and lesser the prospects of a normal life for youngsters....a most fertile ground for hate based propaganda to take root in young minds in the name of religion.
To say that no military action is required is indeed folly and i think this is where Imran Khan is wrong.
However to say that military action alone is the solution is not something i am saying.
The only approach is to use military where the militants are well entrenched and then bring in law enforcement and enforce the law instead of socializing with those elements who are political players since they have influence on the terrorists to some extent...
sorry but this is not something i can call as a strategic dialogue...we do this from the wrong perspective and count on these quasi terrorist sympathizers to negotiate some truce.
This is how we delegated our authority to TTP...
This is the lesson that the martyrdom of many Pakistanis in Swat taught us...never trust the clerics and the Mullahs to help stabilize Pakistan.
They opposed its creation and are not much bothered about it.
There is no dialogue with TTP as it is a criminal/terrorist franchise and any law shall be most unwelcome news for it.

How much more can we tolerate outlaws?


Clean up all the terrorist support structure by using a law enforcement and judicial proceedings
This should include targeting the sectarian killing schools of religious thought which have a strong base in Punjab and still have strong political ties with PML-N...this can be done by law enforcement agencies....honestly!
However when law minister of Punjab socializes with lashker e Jhangvi, i am sure it is not about lacking capability but lacking intent due to other motivations!

Prosecution of the ones in charge of hate filled lashkars is absolutely necessary to eliminate the violence and the atmosphere in which young minds are brainwashed by clerics and taught about heavenly merits of hating other sects due to their flawed Islam ...certainly a most twisted ideology but only condemned in carefully guarded words...never in action.

Create an atmosphere where hate spewing people are held accountable
We should try all those in courts who create unrest by promoting hate and violence in the name of religion, sect, creed, ethnicity etc.
Tolerating such goons is what has caused our society to degenerate to this level, we need to take such things deadly serious.

Our civilian and military leadership needs to own their mistakes and set examples.
If they fail to do so then we should come in the streets...but not under a counter ideology where we want a different system...certainly not now when all such counter ideologies are owned by dodgy characters which are being supported by different hands to gain leverage.
We first need to work towards a more aware society which accepts the flaws instead of just giving into conspiracy theories in order to jump into the arms of any particular camp.
Be patient my friends...we can have any system we want and certainly laws can be modified but our problem is not the system but selective implementation of laws!
Why should we cry Islamic system and then see TTP hijacking it?
Let us cry for justice, accountability and education.
These are the things that all the enemies of Pakistan are shy of and all the well wishers of Pakistan want.
Let us first get some values back in our country and improve our social awareness.

Do understand that today we need to implement a system...there are many things which are right in the current system but due to lack of implementation they are rendered useless.
Let us work with the system we have and first use our strength to change the corrupt and inefficient faces and replace them with the clean ones who have seen that any major vice is punished by a socially aware Pakistani nation.

If you say that in Islamic system the rulers are supposed to be good men then please analyze what you are saying...Pakistani constitution is not un-Islamic and even in our constitution one cannot hold office if one is of bad repute even...then is it fault of our system that corruption is rampant?
Sure we can improve the system and introduce new laws in tune with developing realities!
Sure, it may well be that a true Islamic system is indeed something that can bring great dividends for Pakistan.
But is the current scenario due to a failure of system or a failure of system implementation?

Can the any system including an Islamic system not fail if implemented wrongly?
Yes it can, remember Taliban and how they derailed and focused their energies on some really pathetic things like mandatory beards etc.?
Remember how their Islam did not tolerate others (Hazara Shias) Islam?
Do we really want to give these people legitimacy?
Why not clean all the crazies and denounce them so that after 10-20 years the people learn to segregate between the khariji terrorist ideology of a twisted Islam and truly Islamic values which are indeed worthy of working towards and implementing.
Let us also acknowledge the complete set of problems.

The current dilemma we face internally is because people have hijacked Pakistan and its identity in the name of their brand of Islam which is more like the Islam of Kharijis than of any sane person...however this is the sad truth.
Whether my Pakistani brothers want democracy or a modern Islamic system (unlike the stupid and barbaric version of any Taliban)...they need to see this Khariji ideology for what it is...the number one enemy of Pakistan and Pakistanis.
If you implement democracy then the holier than thou clerics and militants will say it is Un-Islamic; on the other hand if you implement the best Islamic system they will still brand it as a conspiracy against the true Islam and a sham.


We gave them Sharia laws in Swat and after few days when the Sharia courts started announcing punishments for the Taliban who had captured property of others or were harassing others, the Taliban suddenly wanted more and were not satisfied with the Sharia...
Of course why would they be satisfied with any Law which holds them accountable like ordinary men?


My Pakistani brothers and sisters...please stop being influenced by different sects and camps which only end up dividing us and harming Pakistan.
We have to stop harping the tune of others and need to realize that our collective goal is to get a Pakistan where people are held accountable and there is justice and fair play...which lead to true strength.
This needs not just education but a collective conscience which we need to build ourselves.
A social awareness by virtue of which our people are conscious enough to not let anyone harm Pakistan whether in name of Islam, liberalism, ethnicity or any other basis.

We need to focus on the lofty values which are indeed the foundation of any good system...justice, accountability, law and order!
When you have a society where there are at least some values that are good...you can build it further and tailor it more towards your finer needs.

However today, let us come together and draw a line where anyone who is harming Pakistan and wants to promote violence and intolerance is branded as our enemy instead of being honored with a cult following.
Let us unite on some primary things and help bring stability back to the motherland.
When the dust settles and we achieve normalcy, let us work peacefully towards whatever direction we want Pakistan to take.
Let us unify in promoting some values which we all want and let us back it up with our voices and presence in the streets if the leadership fails us.
Let us be much more vocal and active in denouncing all the flaws and errors made so that the rulers and leaders are checked and an environment conducive for positive changes is created.
Let us love Pakistan and protect it from all enemies whether internal or external.
 
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