ASEAN states should follow Indonesia, invoke Hague ruling vs China – Carpio

[Mista]

Singapore supports China's 9 dotted line

Says you? Lol.

 

[nufix]

Singapore supports China's 9 dotted line

Any official statement for that? So far the only statement is that SG wants to facilitate discussions to resolve the issues.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Says you? Lol.

Dont quote me man, i still want my life

 

[Leishangthem]

He's a Chinese race chauvinist and is BS-ing.

We're neutral, but we've always maintain that the dispute should be settled through international rule of law and not through 'might is right'. That's paramount for a small country like Singapore.


Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singapore-south-china-sea-ruling-reaction

China tried to bully us into submission then by impounding our military equipment during transshipment, however we still maintain our principle and position despite the pressure.

33:07

Why can't asian countries get along with other asian countries?Seriously ,an asian....

The merit for western legislation starts from like 50-100 years back for china the it's for like 1000s of years back.
Surely The SEA nations, especially the like of Philippines didn't had the navy to float around and occupy those Islands before china.PH was inhibited with only some headhunters when chinese explored it .
The tribunal was based on western perspective, arbitrarily determined by west and china never participated in it nor provided any evidence from their side for that farce of a tribunal.
The end result was predetermined collaboration between Philippines and the US.

The whole perspective is based on west and what they've determined as useful in inciting conflict between asian nations.
Regardless,China claim those area because of the presence of the 7th fleet in the Pacific.
And the US can have their way with the SCS if it's left out of china's sphere of influence and at the hands of countries like Vietnam,ph etc.

 

[nufix]

Why can't asian countries get along with other asian countries?Seriously ,an asian....

The merit for western legislation starts from like 50-100 years back for china the it's for like 1000s of years back.
Surely The SEA nations, especially the like of Philippines didn't had the navy to float around and occupy those Islands before china.PH was inhibited with only some headhunters when chinese explored it .
The tribunal was based on western perspective, arbitrarily determined by west and china never participated in it nor provided any evidence from their side for that farce of a tribunal.
The end result was predetermined collaboration between Philippines and the US.

The whole perspective is based on west and what they've determined as useful in inciting conflict between asian nations.
Regardless,China claim those area because of the presence of the 7th fleet in the Pacific.
And the US can have their way with the SCS if it's left out of china's sphere of influence and at the hands of countries like Vietnam,ph etc.

Surely we can. I mean before the whole SCS thing happened, SEA countries welcomed China‘s rise relatively with open arms. China could be assertive to the US without having to claim the whole sea for itself, I meanChina could perhaps be more present in the seas without having to be at odds with other countries in the region. If maintaining presence to deter US is the aim, China could forge alliances with countries in the region to allow for Chinese ship to use their harbors for refueling and resupply.

By directly confronting countries in the region, China is actually doing US a favor by pushing them to US camp. That is not how you make friends.

 

[Nike]

Surely we can. I mean before the whole SCS thing happened, SEA countries welcomed China‘s rise relatively with open arms. China could be assertive to the US without having to claim the whole sea for itself, I meanChina could perhaps be more present in the seas without having to be at odds with other countries in the region. If maintaining presence to deter US is the aim, China could forge alliances with countries in the region to allow for Chinese ship to use their harbors for refueling and resupply.

By directly confronting countries in the region, China is actually doing US a favor by pushing them to US camp. That is not how you make friends.

Thats mentality of either with US or became our enemies is contagious among big power. Well just like i said, India, China and US all of them is bully

 

[striver44]

Why can't asian countries get along with other asian countries?Seriously ,an asian....

The merit for western legislation starts from like 50-100 years back for china the it's for like 1000s of years back.
Surely The SEA nations, especially the like of Philippines didn't had the navy to float around and occupy those Islands before china.PH was inhibited with only some headhunters when chinese explored it .
The tribunal was based on western perspective, arbitrarily determined by west and china never participated in it nor provided any evidence from their side for that farce of a tribunal.
The end result was predetermined collaboration between Philippines and the US.

The whole perspective is based on west and what they've determined as useful in inciting conflict between asian nations.
Regardless,China claim those area because of the presence of the 7th fleet in the Pacific.
And the US can have their way with the SCS if it's left out of china's sphere of influence and at the hands of countries like Vietnam,ph etc.

well let me tell u one thing, in "normal" countries which allows more than one child, we siblings protect each other, the big brother protects the smaller ones from you know, others. we Asians are just like those sibling except that our big brothers (china) instead of bringing our common interest together , forming deep trust and shielding us from this so called "westerners" go on full bullying , coercion instead.
I suppose this is the aftermath of being the only child in mainland china, growing up like little emperors, there's a severe lack of empathy whatsoever.
so please save your "we are asian" idea deep in your pocket, blame yourself and the retard at the helm of CCP for this kind of mess. it's just not gonna work now.

 

[Zsari]

Retired Supreme Court Justice Antonio Carpio says raising the landmark ruling is the 'best and most effective' argument under international law to thwart China's encroachment of Southeast Asian states' waters

Sofia Tomacruz
Published: 6:28 PM June 2, 2020

Updated: 6:32 PM June 2, 2020

FLYING HIGH. Flags of ASEAN member-states and partners at the Philippine International Convention Center in Manila, November 10, 2017. File photo by Leanne Jazul/Rappler
MANILA, Philippines – Retired Supreme Court associate justice Antonio Carpio urged Southeast Asian nations to invoke the 2016 Hague ruling against China’s claims in the South China Sea, as he lauded Indonesia’s recent move to do so.

Carpio, who was one of the legal minds behind the Philippines’ case against China, said Indonesia’s invocation of the historic arbitral ruling in a note verbale to the United Nations was an “official acceptance of the ruling,” an example that other countries in the region should follow.

“Indonesia is using the best and most effective argument under international law to thwart China’s encroachment of its EEZ (exclusive economic zone) in the Natunas. And that is the ruling of the arbitral tribunal declaring China’s 9-dash line claim without legal or historical basis,” Carpio told Rappler.

Carpio pointed out that if countries in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) used the 2016 Hague ruling against China’s actions in their EEZs, they would be putting up a united front rejecting Beijing’s expansive claims in the strategic waterway.


“ASEAN states whose EEZs are encroached by China’s 9-dash line should follow the lead of Indonesia. They will be presenting a unified argument against China, an argument that has been vetted by an international tribunal,” he said.

Carpio said if countries did this, the ruling would be enforced by state practice – a move that will “further isolate China.” (READ: Carpio offers 5 ways ASEAN can counter Chinese intimidation in the South China Sea)

Indonesia’s example

Through this latest note verbale to the United Nations, Indonesia publicly and explicitly spelled out its support for the Hague ruling, as it opposed a series of circular notes filed by Being in relation to Malaysia’s application to define the limits of its extended continent shelf.

In the note, the Southeast Asian country said the ruling confirmed the country’s position on maritime features and its entitlements that "no maritime feature in the Spratly islands is entitled to an exclusive economic zone or a continental shelf of its own."

It also reiterated China’s 9-dash line map “implying historic rights claim clearly lacks international legal basis and is tantamount to upset UNCLOS 1982,” referring to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Prior to this, Indonesia had raised the arbitral ruling in a diplomatic protest against China. The protest was filed after a Chinese coast guard vessel trespassed into its exclusive economic zone.

Carpio said Indonesia also invoked the arbitral ruling in the past when it named its EEZ facing the South China Sea as the North Natuna Sea.

Like Carpio, other experts have urged Southeast Asian states to rally behind the 2016 Hague ruling as a way to unite and push back against China.

Aside from Indonesia, South China Sea observers noted Vietnam and Malaysia have expressed its support for the ruling. – Rappler.com

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ra...indonesia-invoke-hague-ruling-vs-china-carpio

The arbitration is irrelevant as it purposefully misinterpreted Chinese claim as that of a historic rights, instead of historic title where it lacks a jurisdiction over. As that is not the basis of Chinese claim, the ruling of China not having historic right is completely pointless.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Indonesia joins neighbors in protesting Beijing’s claims in South China Sea
https://www.thejakartapost.com/pape...sting-beijings-claims-in-south-china-sea.html

Don't take this seriously.
Even Indonesia will not take the step to alienate China. It is all a wishy things by Pro-USA News Media. They may even be paid to to do so. Trump is losing its election and trying to divert attention by stoking the region.
So what happens after TRUMP is gone.
China will still be around and now the irate and agitate 800lb Gorilla.
Don't you people have an vision ahead?
Every ASEAN nation GDP depends on China today? Read your number before you resort to your narrow minded nationalism.

 

[initial_d]

True.All ASEAN nations should protest against CN. If CN block SCS ( east VN sea) then the shipping trade route from ID to JP-SK will be blocked , the economy of ID-JP-SK will collapse.

lol, can't you see asian map, especially south east asia and east asia, there are plenty of route to jp and sk without going through china sea territory

 

[Viva_Viet]

[

lol, can't you see asian map, especially south east asia and east asia, there are plenty of route to jp and sk without going through china sea territory

Another route will increase the shipping cost,making ur products less competitive. Not mentioning, the ships cant move in another routes during storm season.

 

[Leishangthem]

Surely we can. I mean before the whole SCS thing happened, SEA countries welcomed China‘s rise relatively with open arms. China could be assertive to the US without having to claim the whole sea for itself, I mean china could perhaps be more present in the seas without having to be at odds with other countries in the region. If maintaining a presence to deter US is the aim, China could forge alliances with countries in the region to allow for Chinese ship to use their harbors for refueling and resupply.

By directly confronting countries in the region, China is actually doing US a favor by pushing them to US camp. That is not how you make friends.

China has historical claims,so they can't back off,but on the other hand,China isn't gonna forcefully abdicate the islands already occupied by other nations,less likely.All sides have to live with it.
From chinese perspective, the SEA states are operating under farce tribunal invented by the US to contain china .
From some SEA nation's perspective, the tribunal legitimizes its claims.
So,this is an absolute mess,a western invented mess.
China will change the whole western version of point of view,and that's a good thing.

Forget china,SEA nations are still fighting with each other over some tribunal laws,indo-malay;malay-ph etc.
All these nations are acting just like china.
But it has never forced SEA nations to stop trade and commerce with each other,just like that ,the 9 dash lines issue isn't that serious,unless the US instigates some SEA nations to act against china.

The problem will be when US or their aid is involved. It's not their place to intervene,both East Asia & ASEAN should bilaterally agree that west shouldn't be allowed to intervene in East ,in the Asian seas.China has been very ambiguous about what actually they claim in 9 dash lines, islands or the sea or both.This is kept flexible because the 9 dash line was primarily reinforced by china to check US navy while sorting out indifferences with the SEA nations.

And no, refueling and resupply isn't the problem for the Chinese,the problem is that China can't do anything to deter the 7th fleet if SCS is left out of china's influence..China need to be the unchallenged major power and the peace keeper in SCS to prevent US intervention.

 

[Viva_Viet]

And no, refueling and resupply isn't the problem for the Chinese,the problem is that China can't do anything to deter the 7th fleet if SCS is left out of china's influence..China need to be the unchallenged major power and the peace keeper in SCS to prevent US intervention.

if CN cant do anything to deter the 7th fleet, then just let her collapse like Soviet.

 

[Viet]

The arbitration is irrelevant as it purposefully misinterpreted Chinese claim as that of a historic rights, instead of historic title where it lacks a jurisdiction over. As that is not the basis of Chinese claim, the ruling of China not having historic right is completely pointless.

There is no such thing as historic rights in the world. Mobilize the PLA that’s the only thing that counts. Otherwise shut up!

 

[Nike]

Indonesia had historical ties with Madagascar as they are our Colonial post during Srivijaya era, thus should we claim over them?