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Army to seek 20 SuperCobra helicopters from US

Even the Turkish T-129 uses an American engine, the only true 'fail-safe' option would be to develop one's own (or jointly). In any case, should PA actually acquire AH-1Z, it could receive them through Pakistan Counter-Insurgency Funds. Furthermore, there are additional systems the PA would like - in order to enhance its COIN capability of course - from the U.S. For example, in order extend the SOTF's capabilities as well as raise an Army Airborne element, the PA was hoping to acquire the CH-47 Chinook as well as UH-60 Black Hawk (link). Wouldn't be surprised if we one day see a Pakistan Army request to DSCA for Chinook, Black Hawk and Viper (AH-1Z). Nonetheless, this doesn't discount the need for Pakistan to begin a local-supply production line for medium and light transport helicopters.


Well obviously the need is becoming obvious to have Helicopters to fight insurgents , and we are short 80 helicopters to cover whole of Afghanistan border , its pretty suicidal to send in soliders on Jeep against terrorist who use the nigt to launch attack or who have fast stolen cars , or bikes to outrun any army (armored units)

Helicopters from US are definit must not like in 2012 but now since if Pakistan gets 80 or so helicopters it could make a big difference

:coffee: But that is just me covering 10,000+ km border with soliders or 20 helicopters is actially not a reality

We should have recieved E-3 sentry & 80 helicoptor package to control the border sharply from day one , not like after 8 years we are still seeking things like that


If I was a general , I would meet up Kiyani , and talk over dinner , and say look we know you guys are serious , and we have our soliders in Afghanistan , so how about we supply you 80 helicopters, and lets try to flush out one big push to root out all the
rouge elements -

Use the E3 Sentry track vehicle movement on your side of border, and we will control Afganistan side , and if we sqeeze all the routes, and then do door to door searches

Its really very strange why we are not getting the helicopters and other survailence crafts we need to track any ground units movement

We could end this scenario , Pak Army and turkish armies can then move in Afganistan and take care of training local army units in some capacity
 
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I always said super cobra's will be a great additon to our current cobra fleet infact we need them now more then ever with the wot etc.... iam also in favor for other platforms such chinesse or the turks but hence, again as others have said it will take years to come up to speed with mastering them and plus funds is always a issue.. I do hope US provides us with the super cobras.
 
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The Gazelle helicopter (SA 341) is a multi-purpose, lightweight utility / attack helicopter manufactured by Aerospatiale Helicopter Corporation, France. It is one of the fastest helicopters and serves several branches of the British Armed Forces including the Royal Air Force, Royal Navy, Army and Royal Marines in various applications.

The helicopter is used in approximately 23 countries, primarily for surveillance and reconnaissance. It is also used for military applications such as attack, anti-tank, anti-helicopter, transport and training. It can accommodate one pilot and four passengers.

Variants

The Gazelle's variants are the SA 341B, SA 341C, SA 341D HT3, SA 341E, SA 341F, SA 341G and SA 341H. The SA 341B is also known as the Gazelle AH Mk 1. It was principally designed and developed for the British Army and is equipped with an Astazou IIIN engine. It also has a Nightsun searchlight and Decca Doppler 80 radar.

"The helicopter is used in 23 countries, primarily for surveillance and reconnaissance."The variant entered into service in 1973. The SA 341B served the British Army in conflicts in the Falkland Islands, Kuwait, Iraq and Kosovo. The SA 341C is a trainer helicopter primarily used by the British Army for training Royal Navy pilots. The first helicopter was introduced in July 1972. About 30 have been manufactured.

The SA 341D HT3 is a training variant specifically constructed for the Royal Air Force.

About 14 have been manufactured. The first was delivered on 16 July 1973. It is equipped with the same engine as the SA 341C variant.

The SA 341E, also known as HCC4, is used for communication and VIP transport. One of the helicopters was developed for the Royal Air Force. The SA 341F is an advanced version of SA 341E. It was developed for the French Army. The helicopter is equipped with an M621 20mm cannon and powered by an Astazou IIIC engine.

Another variant, the SA 341G, is the first helicopter to be certified by the US for operations under IFR Cat.1 conditions with a pilot. It is a civil and commercial variant powered by an Astazou IIIA engine and is also called the Stretched Gazelle.

The military variant SA 341H is an advanced version of SA 341G and is powered by an Astazou IIIB engine.

Features

The SA 341 is the first helicopter to be fitted with a fenestron or fantail. The fenestron is a shrouded tail-rotor that enhances flight characteristics at high speed and reduces noise. The helicopter also features a round, glassed-in cockpit, three main rotor blades and 13 fenestron blades in the tail rotor.

The three main rotor blades are mounted on top of the fuselage at the back of the cabin and are made from composite materials.

The Gazelle proved unsuitable for operations in Afghanistan because of the hot and dry climate. In Afghanistan SA341s cannot fly between 11am to 11pm during summer because heat can damage the engines.

Development

"The helicopter features a round cockpit, three main rotor blades and 13 fenestron blades."British interest in a utility helicopter led to the development of the Gazelle. In February 1967 the British Army signed a contract with Westland Helicopters for the Gazelle's development.

Westland and Aerospatiale formed a joint venture in 1968 to develop the helicopter. The Gazelle made its maiden flight on 7 April 1967. Westland completed the final assembly of SA 341 in 1970.

The SA 342M, SA 341F and Gazelle Viviane were developed for surveillance and reconnaissance.

The SA 342 series made its first flight in 1976. A state-of-the-art anti-tank helicopter, Gazelle Viviane is equipped with a Viviane thermal imagery system, designed to capture images on battlefields.

Avionics

The SA 341's avionics include general instruments, standby magnetic artificial horizon, slip indicator, Bendix / King SM-4001 moving map, global positioning systems (GPS), King KI-825 EHSI Kit, King KRA-10A radar altimeter kit and Garmin GNS-430 NAV / COMM / GPS.

It is also equipped with King KX-165A NAV / COMM, a Bendix / King KT-76C transponder and a Garmin GMA-340H audio panel.

The Gazelle has direct voice input (DVI) systems that control avionics instruments through aircrew helmet microphones and an intercom. The DVI system is manufactured by QinetiQ. It also has an infrared signature suppressor.

Armament

The SA 341 is equipped with a GIAT M621 20mm cannon, four AT-3 ATGMs and two SA-7, 128mm or 57mm rockets and a 7.62mm machine gun in cabin.

"The Gazelle has direct voice input (DVI) systems that control avionics instruments."The GIAT M621 is an automatic 20mm cannon manufactured by Nexter for helicopters and armoured vehicles. The length and width of the M621 cannon are 2,207mm and 202mm respectively. The height and weight are 245mm and 45.5kg respectively.

The AT-3 ATGM is an anti-tank guided missile used to demolish heavily armoured tanks and fighting vehicles. The SA-7 is a low-altitude surface-to-air missile system. The length and diameter of the SA-7 are 1.44m and 72mm respectively.

Engines

The Gazelle is powered by a Turbomeca Astazou IIIA turboshaft engine. The engine generates about 440kW of output power. The Astazou IIIA engine is primarily used for civil and military applications.

Performance

The Gazelle can climb at a rate of 12.2m/s. The helicopter has a cruise speed of 264km/h and can fly at a maximum speed of 310km/h. The range and service ceiling of the helicopter are 500 miles and 20,000ft respectively. The maximum take-off weight of the helicopter is 1,800kg, while the endurance is 3.5h.
 
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Gazelle is a verstaile helo, but old enough that Pakistan should not consider it to purchase. we need a helicopter which is a dedicated anti armour, tandem seat, not a converted utility helo.
 
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The AH-1W Super Cobra is the US Marines' attack helicopter. It is supplied by Bell Helicopter Textron, and entered service in 1985. As well as the US Marine Corps, the Super Cobra is operational with the Turkish Land Forces and the armed forces of Taiwan. The AH-1W was deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom in March 2003.

Super Cobra upgrade programme

A major upgrade of the Bell Super Cobra known as the H-1 programme is underway.

The programme calls for the remanufacture of the US Marine Corps fleet of 180 AH-1W Super Cobra and 100 UH-1N utility helicopters to an advanced four-bladed configuration.

"The AH-1W Super Cobra is the US Marines' attack helicopter."The existing two-bladed semi-rigid, teetering rotor system is being replaced with a four-bladed, hingeless, bearingless rotor system.

The improvement in flight characteristics provided by the four-bladed configuration has led to increases in flight envelope, maximum speed, vertical rate-of-climb, payload and rotor vibration level.

The USMC subsequently decided on new-build rather than remanufactured UH-1Y helicopters and, in February 2008, awarded Bell a contract for the new build of 40 of the proposed 180 AH-1Z helicopters. Four additional helicopters were ordered in September 2008. The new-build AH-1Z will be fitted with the uprated T700-401C engines, also fitted on the UH-1Y.

First flight of the AH-1Z took place in December 2000. The AH-1W entered low-rate initial production (LRIP) in October 2003. Five AH-1W helicopters were remanufactured to AH-1Z standard and took part in flight testing at NAS Patuxent River, Maryland. Sea trials in May 2005 included the first shipboard landing on USS Bataan, Wasp Class amphibious assault ship.

Developmental testing was completed in February 2006 and two test aircraft began operational evaluation (OPEVAL) with the USMC in May 2006. The first production AH-1Z helicopter was delivered to the USMC in January 2007. Phase II of OPEVAL began in February 2008. A full-rate production decision is expected in 2009. Initial operating capability is scheduled for July 2011.

The Turkish Army selected the AH-1Z King Cobra in July 2000 with a request for 50 out of a total requirement for 145 helicopters. In May 2004, it was announced that the acquisition was to be cancelled. The helicopters were to be built in Turkey by Tusas Aerospace Industries (TAI).

Cockpit
Northrop Grumman has developed the integrated avionics systems for the AH-1Z. The systems include two mission computers and an automatic flight control system with four-axis stability control augmentation system. Each crew station has two 8in×6in multifunction displays and one 4.2in×4.2in dual function display, based on active matrix liquid crystal colour technology.

The displays are supplied by L-3 Ruggedised Command and Control Solutions. Smiths Aerospace supplied the weapon stores control and data transfer system.

"The AH-1W Super Cobra helicopter was deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom in March 2003."The communications suite combines the new US Navy RT-1824 integrated radio, UHF/VHF, COMSEC and modem in a single unit. The navigation suite includes an embedded GPS inertial (EGI), a low-airspeed air data subsystem, which allows weapons delivery when hovering and a digital map.

In June 2002, Thales Avionics' TopOwl helmet-mounted display system was chosen for the USMC AH-1Z. The first system was delivered in January 2003. TopOwl, also fitted on Tiger, NH90 and Rooivalk helicopters, has integrated Gen IV image intensifier and FLIR capability and provides transition from day to night use at the push of a button.

Weapons and missiles
The Super Cobra can carry both TOW and Hellfire anti-armour missiles and is being qualified to carry the Maverick missile. The Raytheon BGM-71 TOW missile has a range of more than 3km and semi-automatic command-to-line-of-sight guidance. The AGM-114 Hellfire missile is manufactured by Lockheed Martin. It is equipped with a semi-active laser seeker and has a range of 7km. The Super Cobra has fire-and-forget capability when firing the Hellfire missile in co-operative mode with laser target illumination.

The Super Cobra was the first attack helicopter to qualify both the Sidewinder air-to-air missile and the Sidearm anti-radiation missile. Both missiles can use the same LAU-7 rail launcher. Sidearm has a range of more than 15km. AIM-9L Sidewinder is an all-aspect, short-range, air-to-air missile produced by Lockheed Martin and Raytheon. The missile has a range of 15km.

The Super Cobra can fire the Hydra family of unguided 70mm rockets or the larger 127mm Zuni rocket bombs. From 2008, it will be armed with the advanced precision kill weapon system (APKWS), a guided version of the Hydra. The US Army re-opened the competition for the APKWS in September 2005 and a decision on contractor is expected in March 2006.

The Super Cobra carries a three-barrel, 20mm Gatling gun for close range (up to 2km) engagement and 750 rounds of ammunition. With the gun in a fixed forward position, the pilot can aim by manoeuvring the helicopter. Either crew member can slave the turret to the helmet-mounted sight and aim the gun by looking at the target.

"The Super Cobra carries a three-barrel, 20mm Gatling gun for close range engagement."The AH-1Z for the USMC will be armed with: 16 Hellfire missiles, six AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, 70mm rocket pods (7- and 19-shot), and a 20mm gun.

Sensors
Targeting for the AH-1W is provided by the night targeting system (NTS), jointly produced by Tamam Division of Israel Aircraft Industries Ltd and Kollsman.

NTS integrates a forward-looking infrared (FLIR) which provides automatic target tracking with a laser designator / rangefinder and video recorder.

Lockheed Martin has developed a longer range AN/AAQ-30 target sight system (TSS) for the AH-1Z to replace the NTS. TSS includes a third-generation four field-of-view FLIR based on a 3-5-micron staring array, CCD colour TV, Kollsman eyesafe laser rangefinder / designator and multi-target autotracker. L-3 Communications Wescam supplies the turret assembly. Lockheed Martin was awarded a contract to supply the first 16 systems to the USMC in March 2008.

Longbow International (a joint venture of Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman) is developing the Cobra Radar System for the AH-1Z, based on the Longbow millimetre wave radar on the AH-64D Apache. Cobra is a pod-based radar that can be mounted on a wingtip or in a stores position. Cobra can automatically search, detect, classify and prioritise multiple moving and stationary targets. It has a range of 8km against moving and 4km against stationary targets.

Countermeasures
The H1 Super Cobra upgrade includes provision of a new electronic warfare suite. A new radar warner, the AN/APR-39(XE2) from Lockheed Martin, replaces the Lockheed Martin AN/APR-39(V)2 pulse radar warner and the AEL Industries AN/APR-44 continuous-wave radar warner.

The ATK AN/AAR-47 missile warning system has been included in the upgrade suite. AN/AAR-47 uses infrared detectors to detect the missile plume. The Goodrich (formerly Raytheon) AN/AVR-2A laser warning receiver has also been added. The infrared countermeasures system is the AN/ALQ-144A developed by BAE Systems IEWS (formerly Sanders, a Lockheed Martin company).

"Super Cobra is armed with TOW missiles."The helicopter is also equipped with the AN/ALE-39 chaff and infrared flare dispenser manufactured by BAE Systems Integrated Defense Solutions (formerly Tracor) and Lockheed Martin Tactical Defense Systems.

Engines
Twin General Electric T700-GE-401 turboshaft engines provide a total of 2,410kW or 3,380shp.

In standard conditions, with an air-to-air ordnance load, the SuperCobra can take off and climb out at more than 4.1m/s on only one engine. It can hover out of ground effect (OGE) at 914m, with a load of four TOW and four Hellfire missiles, full turret ammunition and rockets.
 
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Just like you love Putin and Netanyahu!:smokin:

Mate,
Later atleast we dont complain of being Cheated. and Atleast we dont sell our Sovereignty in return of Weapons.

Is there any Pakistani in this forum who is NOT annoyed by the UNEthical and Deceiving American invasion of their Country in the name of War on Terror ?

Get something Equivalent from China its ur Real Friend.
 
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Mate,
Later atleast we dont complain of being Cheated. and Atleast we dont sell our Sovereignty in return of Weapons.

Is there any Pakistani in this forum who is NOT annoyed by the UNEthical and Deceiving American invasion of their Country in the name of War on Terror ?

Get something Equivalent from China its ur Real Friend.

both sides are having silly thinking. Pakistanis also over-react and/or get too paranoid.

At the same time, U.S. has been making some silly moves for which they need to be warned.

Trust is a 2-way street. As for being 'cheated' I dont know what you were referring to or who was complaining.

This is a forum and there are multitudes of views and ideas. Dont just package everything and generalize.
 
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I'm sorry for not following the thread but can someone provide details about the expected arrival of these Cobras.

Thanks
 
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I'm sorry for not following the thread but can someone provide details about the expected arrival of these Cobras.

Thanks

No arrival date, heck no order yet. It seems just an interest has been shown to acquire this platform, as if possible these helis can be given on priority basis by the US if they wish. Otherwise no use as it will take years to come into service.
 
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again same cobras how many times we have to talk on the same issues for so long and in two different thread at the same time
 
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simple view we have 2 ways for modren holes one go to china other to turkey leave uncle sam in this issue if you need apachi wait 15 years when they ground first batch they will sale to us.even we got them there will be danger of speares and wapons always.if we need more cobras uncle sam will happy that some one take his garbage and clean his country.damn go go go china or turkey .
 
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