Army should be looking for a NEW Sub Machine Gun (SMG)

[XYON]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here are the three contenders for Army's SMG competition. The top one is the Romanian AK-47, the middle one is the Serbian M70AB2 and the bottom one is the Czech Sa vz 58 Compact. Which one will you pick for Army's use & as a replacement of MP5A2? All rifles are 7.62x39mm caliber. Except for the Romanian rifle, the other two come with pre-installed picatinny rail etc. The photograph also gives the relative size comparison of the three rifles.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here are the three contenders for Army's SMG competition. The top one is the Romanian AK-47, the middle one is the Serbian M70AB2 and the bottom one is the Czech Sa vz 58 Compact. Which one will you pick for Army's use & as a replacement of MP5A2? All rifles are 7.62x39mm caliber. Except for the Romanian rifle, the other two come with pre-installed picatinny rail etc. The photograph also gives the relative size comparison of the three rifles.

Sir ji, tell them to get the HK-416 design and re-chamber it for 7.62*39mm, or get help from the Turkish.

 

[Jango]

7.62 is replacement for MP-5? Not type 56?

It makes sense though, MP-5 were out of favor for sometime because of their in-ability to penetrate body armor.

If it is for a MP-5, then the compact Sa vz 58.

So we will be having three 7.62's then? Type 56, the new gun, and G3?

As TaimiKhan said, a proposal should be put forward to HK for re-chambering, or help from Turkish (Mehmetcick) should be sought. But that would be more expensive than these Ex-soviet state proposals wouldn't it?

 

[fulcrum]

Sir ji, tell them to get the HK-416 design and re-chamber it for 7.62*39mm, or get help from the Turkish.

How was the performance of the 3 weapons? it seems that the size of barrels are different, which would have effect on the ranges?

 

[Jango]

G-3 is to be replaced by a 7.62x39mm weapon of Heckler&Koch. You do the guesses.

Pakka? HK-417 then, considering that PA does not want to re-chamber a rifle. If rechambering is an option, then HK-416, G-36?

 

[Fieldmarshal]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here are the three contenders for Army's SMG competition. The top one is the Romanian AK-47, the middle one is the Serbian M70AB2 and the bottom one is the Czech Sa vz 58 Compact. Which one will you pick for Army's use & as a replacement of MP5A2? All rifles are 7.62x39mm caliber. Except for the Romanian rifle, the other two come with pre-installed picatinny rail etc. The photograph also gives the relative size comparison of the three rifles.

the bottom one is crap due to the shoulder position of its folding butt, the hunger ak that is being made for the ANA and police has the same butt and i have used that extensively and it is very very uncomfortable.

the serbian m7 is a copy of the russian folding stock ak and i have the russian version and it is excellent weapon and should be the weapon of choice ie if we cant get a licence to manufacture the original russian. (coas visiting russia and than putin coming to Pakistan)

Sir ji, tell them to get the HK-416 design and re-chamber it for 7.62*39mm, or get help from the Turkish.

no need to re chamber as H&K are already producing a 7.62 weapon known as H&K-417. and it is an excellent alround weapon

 

[TaimiKhan]

@Fieldmarshal, The HK-417 & H&K produces 7.62*51mm chambered rifles, while our requirements are for the 7.62*39mm round.

Both are different, thus if we get anything from H&K like HK-416/417 design, it needs to be re-chambered for 7.62*39mm round.

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

this age of Missiles ,
we need to look for advance missiles to shot down intruders

 

[fulcrum]

How was the performance of the 3 weapons? it seems that the size of barrels are different, which would have effect on the ranges?

 

[Last Hope]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here are the three contenders for Army's SMG competition. The top one is the Romanian AK-47, the middle one is the Serbian M70AB2 and the bottom one is the Czech Sa vz 58 Compact. Which one will you pick for Army's use & as a replacement of MP5A2? All rifles are 7.62x39mm caliber. Except for the Romanian rifle, the other two come with pre-installed picatinny rail etc. The photograph also gives the relative size comparison of the three rifles.

I would stick to what I voted for earlier. Replacement of MP-5 must be done with Vz-58. However, the Vz-58 in this picture looks a short version and ugly choice. What my recommendation was:

We already have too many AK-47s and their clones. No need for M70AB2.

 

[XYON]

Army is looking for a weapon that has accuracy between 50 to 200m and effective range upto 300m. Our soldiers have been fighting at 50-200m ranges with the TTP thugs in Wana etc. Performance wise, it was the Sa vz 58 Compact that overall performed the best in all categories. The Serbian M70AB2 showed consistent & repeated jamming in all critical test fires & the Romanian weapon was of very poor material and quality, jammed every now and then and also not very accurate. Indeed short barrel has some disadvantages over longer ranges, but the Army then already has the G-3 Assault Rifle and Sniper Rifles for that purpose and does not expect an SMG to take over the role. However, lets see that how things turn out in coming months and which rifle is eventually inducted by the competent authorities.

How was the performance of the 3 weapons? it seems that the size of barrels are different, which would have effect on the ranges?

 

[XYON]

If any one of the SMG's above is eventually procured, Pakistan Army will stop the purchase of the Type-56 Chinese AK-47 that were purchased in a great hurry in the thousands a few years (at US$96 per weapon) back as our soldiers had refused to fight in the NWA with the MP5A2. No comparative trials at the time were held to short-list or buy the Chinese weapon. Again this new weapon is the intended replacement of the MP5A2, hence after the induction of the new weapon we will have Europeon SMG (7.62x39mm) and Assault Rifle G-3 (7.62x39mm) as the staple small arms of the Army.

7.62 is replacement for MP-5? Not type 56?

It makes sense though, MP-5 were out of favor for sometime because of their in-ability to penetrate body armor.

If it is for a MP-5, then the compact Sa vz 58.

So we will be having three 7.62's then? Type 56, the new gun, and G3?

As TaimiKhan said, a proposal should be put forward to HK for re-chambering, or help from Turkish (Mehmetcick) should be sought. But that would be more expensive than these Ex-soviet state proposals wouldn't it?

 

[Last Hope]

Army is looking for a weapon that has accuracy between 50 to 200m and effective range upto 300m. Our soldiers have been fighting at 50-200m ranges with the TTP thugs in Wana etc. Performance wise, it was the Sa vz 58 Compact that overall performed the best in all categories. The Serbian M70AB2 showed consistent & repeated jamming in all critical test fires & the Romanian weapon was of very poor material and quality, jammed every now and then and also not very accurate. Indeed short barrel has some disadvantages over longer ranges, but the Army then already has the G-3 Assault Rifle and Sniper Rifles for that purpose and does not expect an SMG to take over the role. However, lets see that how things turn out in coming months and which rifle is eventually inducted by the competent authorities.

Does that mean the Vz-58 topped the tests and is selected?

If yes, what variants are opted for further tests/considerations?

 

[XYON]

Yes the Sa vz 58 Compact was on top of the performance list in the 5 day trials by the Army. However at this stage all the technical & user reports are being compiled and the final selection process will take another couple of months. Will keep all updated as and when I have further updates.

Does that mean the Vz-58 topped the tests and is selected?

If yes, what variants are opted for further tests/considerations?

 

[Jango]

Another advantage of Vz 58 is it's general compactness. You dont want another Ak with you, but a weapon similar in size to the Mp-5. The bigger version is 2.9 kg or thereabouts, what is the weight of this one?