Army should be looking for a NEW Sub Machine Gun (SMG)

[Irfan Baloch]

Used the VZ 58 a couple of times, it is a bit better than the Ak(totally different in terms of internal mechanism).

But we need something more refined than this.

explain refined............
opposite of rugged?
or do you mean something else

 

[Last Hope]

Used the VZ 58 a couple of times, it is a bit better than the Ak(totally different in terms of internal mechanism).

But we need something more refined than this.

I find this the best weapon in the 7.62x39mm range. What are your suggestions in the given caliber?

 

[Jango]

explain refined............
opposite of rugged?
or do you mean something else

No, no the opposite of rugged.

I just can't get the proper word for it.

it's like when i fired a M-4, and then a VZ-58 right after it, there was a marked difference.

Now i know that the Army cannot go for M-4, but something more better than VZ-58.

you following me?

 

[Jango]

I find this the best weapon in the 7.62x39mm range. What are your suggestions in the given caliber?

in the 7.62 range, yes, that is one of the better weapons.

But why the obsession with 7.62? And if we have to keep up with a 7.62, then as Taimi said, maybe get ToT for a G-36 or Steyr AUG, and re-chamber them for the 7.62.

But we are going to keep a G-3, then why go for another 7.62?

BTW, I was passing in front of the Army house while coming form Jinnah park, and near the judicial colony, there was a sniper standing there. With his, i suspect, M40. looked really unusual, that a sniper would be standing there alongside the road!

 

[XYON]

This is a short and a better video of the Sa vz 58 firing. And I have to agree with Last Hope that this weapon looks promising for Pakistan Army's requirement. I have heard from a friend that Army may be conducting trials of the offered SMG's by end of this month. I'll try to find out more as and when and post details here of the trials and the participants

Shooting Czech SA Vz.58 - YouTube

 

[Irfan Baloch]

No, no the opposite of rugged.

I just can't get the proper word for it.

it's like when i fired a M-4, and then a VZ-58 right after it, there was a marked difference.

Now i know that the Army cannot go for M-4, but something more better than VZ-58.

you following me?

No i dont think so


for us the gun has to be rugged and robust. able to take punishment of the elements and its user should spend more time fighting the enemy rather than worrying for its service and jamming. there is always a trade off.. between over engineered and complicated machines that are high maintenance and expensive but offer benefits like accuracy and wide variety of use in different climates.

and then there are guns that are robust, require least amount of maintenance and dont jam and get the job done say at the expense of accuracy (AK47 family).


explain what was the marked differnce?

accuracy?
recoil?
jamming?
cleaning?
field stripping?
weight? size? assembly?

 

[MilSpec]

No i dont think so


for us the gun has to be rugged and robust. able to take punishment of the elements and its user should spend more time fighting the enemy rather than worrying for its service and jamming. there is always a trade off.. between over engineered and complicated machines that are high maintenance and expensive but offer benefits like accuracy and wide variety of use in different climates.

and then there are guns that are robust, require least amount of maintenance and dont jam and get the job done say at the expense of accuracy (AK47 family).


explain what was the marked differnce?

accuracy?
recoil?
jamming?
cleaning?
field stripping?
weight? size? assembly?

I have used CZ858 aka VZ58 around 6-7 times on the range. I own a similar weapon FA cugir Akm, the basic difference is milled reciever compared to stamped receiver. Although the system uses a short stroke and traverses less compared to AK47 stamped variant, recoil is still similar which IMO is attributed to entire gas pressure used for propelling the piston back. Although rearward force is higher, due to lower traverse of off center action, the muzzle climb is lower. The difference in recoil is negligible in both the system. Where VZ is better is accuracy, the VZ will hold a tighter group and have a lower muzzle climb.

As the last page has been in support of the vs, let me recommend a slight modification to regular AK. Adding a buffer tube to bolt which attaches to the back plate and installing a spring loaded buttstock (6 pos optional), will highly increase the effective accuracy of the AK. Another reason why most ak shooters cannot hold tight groups is because of non-existential cheek welds. Placing a cheek riser on an AK does improve consistence in shooting.

A lot of stamped AK have been constructed poorly and were meant for spray and pray, VZ 58 is a well made AK and does justice to the actual design. Does the milled receiver produce better results in operation? I dont know, but it surely does ensure the entire production run is of the same quality and the all parts are interchangeable.

Jamming? there isn't a gun that wont jam, VZ 58 will have the same probability of jamming as the one good quality stamped AK, but just like the AK it will be champion no hassle rifle compared to the M16's

Cleaning field stripping and assembly is similar but you will do need to train the troops about the short action, its pretty much like lego pieces, any one who knows gun, knows what to do.

Weight is more compared to a regular Ak but is lower than some AR 15 and FAL variants.

Size is same as regular AK.

Cost is more but the service live and ruggedness is increased due to the same milled receiver. It just might survive being crushed by Al zarrar!

 

[XYON]

The Sa vz 58 Compact looks even better! Good Looking weapon though I would not call it an AK-variant!

 

[MilSpec]

The Sa vz 58 Compact looks even better! Good Looking weapon though I would not call it an AK-variant!

It still is an Ak variant.

 

[Last Hope]

It still is an Ak variant.

Wrong. The external body may look like an AK but internally it is completely new and unique platform.

 

[IND151]

Replacing which gun?

Mp5 is slowly being phased out from the checkpoint and other field duties.

does PA have MP5SD3?

 

[XYON]

It still is an Ak variant.

Disagree! Looks can be deceiving. Completely different receiver, bolt on the Sa vz 58 from the AK!

does PA have MP5SD3?

SSG Anti-terrorist, Anti-Hijacking company may have a few units!

 

[MilSpec]

Wrong. The external body may look like an AK but internally it is completely new and unique platform.

the only difference is the short stroke piston, you can out an ak trigger group, ak firing pin, charging bolt, ak chrome lined barell, ak sights, ak aftermarket accessories. Internally the only thing unique about it is the shorter stroke thank the AK. Calling it a unique platform is like calling a Hk416 a unique platform instead of m16 derivative.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

forget damn russian weapons we are getting a fully turkish AR and maybe SM gun aswell , you can get these and we will both ditch the g-3 its getting damn old

we were going to get hk-417 under licence but then we said instead lets make our own weapons without licence our own design etc so we done above which will be mass produced in a few days

below are pics of hk-417 under licence which we will not mass produce but maybe our special units will only use

 

[Last Hope]

This weapon is in consideration to replace the G-3.