Army should be looking for a NEW Sub Machine Gun (SMG)

[TaimiKhan]

XYON, what do you think of the accuracy of the Type-56 and effective range, is it accurate, what is the effective range ? and do you think the new selected weapon will have the effective range desired

Effective range of Type-56 is more, plus in the long range factors the accuracy of Type-56 may be more, as its barrel length is much more when compared to the Vz 58 Sporter Compact model being offered to PA, which would be having something like 120mm - 190mm barrel length, while type-56 has 400+mm barrel length.

I have serious doubts that Vz 58 can replace Type-56s when it comes to effective range and accuracy, but it may be a more reliable weapon system when compared to the newly inducted type-56Cs which are giving problems.

I believe Vz 58 is much more and a good replacement when compared to MP-5.

 

[XYON]

First I am very certain that the folding stock Chinese Type 56 AK is NOT being manufactured at POF. They are being purchased directly from the Chinese company, Poly Technologies that is the business arm of and owned by the Chinese Army itself. The cost of each rifle is US$96.00 per piece. Yes the POF has the ability but then what the heck would they do with the millions invested into the H&K manufacturing units? So at this time it does not even make business sense for POF to get into the production of the Type-56 Chinese AK.

Second, the new SMG will replace the MP5A2 (that is the official SMG of Pakistan Army) that is being manufactured at POF.

Last, I have net seen too many of the fixed stock Type 56's with our troops these days. They all carry the folding stock Type 56.

well whatever officers i met have mentioned it to be manufactured at POF, the reason was the tribal operations, as troops preferred this weapon alot. And they all cursed the POF, all said that the old one with the fixed stock is much much better compared to this new one, and since its a Pakistani version, that is why its giving prbs as they have not made the quality of the weapon as Chinese do. I myself had doubts about origin being POF, but since last few years POF had been showing a version of the AK-47 at international defence shows, which means they have the capability to manufacture AK-47s, thus if they had the capability since last many years then why get it from the Chinese. I was even told, that the folding stock AK-47s were ordered by another country also, but returned or order cancelled due to poor quality of the weapons and as an alternate they were handed to the PA for their use. And POF first tried to produce and export the Russian type AK-47, but due to the complaint of Russia that we are doing an illegal thing as we don't have the licence for producing AK-47s, the design was changed to look more like the Chinese AK-47s.

I think you are in a more better position then me to check out and know the facts. But POF can produce AK-47s.

Plus, kindly clear, is the new gun being procured to replace MP-5s or the newly inducted Type-56Cs ?? I bet the old ones are not going to be replaced as troops love that one.

 

[TaimiKhan]

XYON, what do you think of the accuracy of the Type-56 and effective range, is it accurate, what is the effective range ? and do you think the new selected weapon will have the effective range desired

Effective range of Type-56 is more, plus in the long range factors the accuracy of Type-56 may be more, as its barrel length is much more when compared to the Vz 58 Sporter Compact model being offered to PA, which would be having something like 120mm - 190mm barrel length, while type-56 has 400+mm barrel length.

I have serious doubts that Vz 58 can replace Type-56s when it comes to effective range and accuracy, but it may be a more reliable weapon system when compared to the newly inducted type-56Cs which are giving problems.

I believe Vz 58 is much more and a good replacement when compared to MP-5.

 

[Jango]

The POF website does not indicate that it produces a Type 56 variant. Only the G-3, MP-5 and PK-1 (the MP-5 variant).

 

[TaimiKhan]

The POF website does not indicate that it produces a Type 56 variant. Only the G-3, MP-5 and PK-1 (the MP-5 variant).

Then why were they showcasing it at intl defence exhibitions ??

They may not be showing it on their website or on defence shows as Russia objected and we don't have license production certification for it.

Whatever, we do have the capability to manufacture AK-47s at POF.

 

[Jango]

Then why were they showcasing it at intl defence exhibitions ??

They may not be showing it on their website or on defence shows as Russia objected and we don't have license production certification for it.

Whatever, we do have the capability to manufacture AK-47s at POF.

Well, we all know how lazy we our on updating our websites!!

Original Ak, or some variant with modified receivers?

BTW, any picture of the locally produced one? (not that i dont believe you, just curious).

 

[Last Hope]

• Out of the problems faced by Type-56 operates, jamming of this weapon is biggest. It requires a lot of cleaning and maintenance. (I too myself have heard from junior level officers that POF manufactures Type-56).
  
• POF does manufacture limited AK-47 homemade variants. Here is a picture of my favorite, during the trials at POF.
  
  

  

  
  
  

  

  
  
  

  

• Most of the troops on frontline use folding stock Type-56 however special services were using fixed-stock Type-56-2
  
• Lastly, the VZ-58 (likely) is to replace MP-5 not G-3 or AK-47 (variants). I find this as best bet as replacement for MP-5.

Any other issues??

 

[Jango]

That picture you posted is not of a Ak-47, but a Type 56. Notice the front sights. AK has open sights, Type 56 has closed ones.

 

[Jango]

[*]Most of the troops on frontline use folding stock Type-56 however special services were using fixed-stock Type-56-2

Type 56 II is not fixed stock, it has a folding stock and a removable bayonet.

 

[Amaa'n]

As far as I remember someone said on the forums that a batch was bought from china and it was given to soliders straight away, but with second batch onwards POF made the receiver and folding stock inline to reduce recoil and improve accuracy, so I believe that batch had some issues, . And I believe Vz 58 will also replace the type56 with personnel on security duties

 

[Last Hope]

Type 56 II is not fixed stock, it has a folding stock and a removable bayonet.

Type-56 II has both fixed and folding stock. The ones issued to SSG were majority of Fixed Stock. Now I think the SSG have adapted to AK-47 and few fixed-stock Type-56 II are still in service.

 

[Jango]

Type-56 II has both fixed and folding stock. The ones issued to SSG were majority of Fixed Stock. Now I think the SSG have adapted to AK-47 and few fixed-stock Type-56 II are still in service.

POF made the changes to the stock? Because I am pretty sure that Type 56 II is not made fixed stock. Any link for type 56 II having both stocks?

 

[Last Hope]

POF made the changes to the stock? Because I am pretty sure that Type 56 II is not made fixed stock. Any link for type 56 II having both stocks?

I've seen them in service, that is creditable enough.

 

[Jango]

I've seen them in service, that is creditable enough.

I didn't question the credibility of your claim. Just wanted to know that whether POF made the changes or indeed the rifle. Because the original Type 56 II is not made with fixed stock.

Btw the pics you posted, also looks like folding stock, what is the exact rifle there? Looks like a 56 II.

 

[Amaa'n]

Pof did make the changes to type 56 stock