Army, IAF work through the night battling to rescue stranded people in J&K

[Abingdonboy]

Let me draw your attention to some of the pics that we see. One of them shows a white Hyster FTT loading pallets into the aircraft. So my question was: why need a Hyster when even Godrej (among others) makes FTTs in India for years.
Answer: there is an extremely well co-ordinated "material handling system" that has come with the aircraft which are so well standardised that A/C turnaround time is minimised; apart from the inbuilt modular systems within the A/C. Even pallet rollers are designed to match. Incidentally these are ideas that have come laterally to/from Civil Aviation. The East-Bloc A/C paid scant attention to such aspects.

You're absolutely right about that! The Wester (particularly the US) has refined logistics down to a fine art from top to bottom every element in the chain is fine tuned right down to the cargo loading vehicles. When the IAF purchased both the C-17 and C-130J part of the package that came with them were such specialised vehicles because the US is aware that to make the entrée system efficient every aspect of cargo transportation needs to be taken care of. As such at Hindon the IAF now has a fleet of around 20+ "K-loaders" a specialised vehicle that has never been used by the IAF until now given it has had to make do with Eastern a/c up till now. This is the value added by buying from the West.

Of course I don't think that Russian aircrafts have a better maintainability/availability than western aircrafts, but your conclusion based on numbers of aircrafts used is plain wrong as shown at the C17 example. Again the numbers used, have nothing to do with the maintainability/availability, we simply can use the C130J at the moment far better than the C17, that doesn't mean the C17 is worse to maintain or has a worse availability which also as explained has to do with how many sorties / mission the aircraft is able to do and not with how many numbers of aircrafts are used. We could use 100% of the AN 32 fleet now if you want, but the "availability" for sorties and missions would be clearly below, because we know that these aircrafts are more difficult to maintain. So mixing up numbers, maintainability/availability... is wrong and more over does not take away from the fact that the Mi17, the AN32 and the IL76 are doing excellent work at the moment and isn't that the most important point?
The lack of used C17s btw can be based on the fact that the rest are used in other missions, in or outside of India, or that the current situation simply makes them to not be the best choice for IAF (too little payload, ILs can transport more passengers).

I really don't understand what you are arguing over sir. All I pointed out was that the C-130Js seemed to offer 100% availability at that point in time- a pretty outstanding accomplishment especially in the context of the IAF who have struggled with the availability and maintainability of their Russian-origin a/c. Are you disputing that Western a/c don't offer many advantages over their Russian counterparts particularly in this regard?

As part of the C-17 contract with Boeing they are contractually obliged to ensure the C-17's fleet has 85% availability - AS A MINIMUM. From all I've heard Boeing have easily surpassed even this very high figure.

What we are witnessing is a tectonic shift in the IAF and how it is able to perform, it is not really a stretch to say that they have been operating with one hand tied behind their back for a while now thanks to the Russians and their after sales support (of lack thereof) and this is, in part, why I am all for the Indian Mil going for as many Western products *** possible and reducing their dependancy on the Russians where possible.

Again, what I am saying is not revolutionary nor should it really come as a surprise to you.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

You're absolutely right about that! The Wester (particularly the US) has refined logistics down to a fine art from top to bottom every element in the chain is fine tuned right down to the cargo loading vehicles. When the IAF purchased both the C-17 and C-130J part of the package that came with them were such specialised vehicles because the US is aware that to make the entrée system efficient every aspect of cargo transportation needs to be taken care of. As such at Hindon the IAF now has a fleet of around 20+ "K-loaders" a specialised vehicle that has never been used by the IAF until now given it has had to make do with Eastern a/c up till now. This is the value added by buying from the West.

There is more to it than that........The IAF did not get just a logistic system around these A/C but also got into an entirely new Op Doctrine esp wrt the SF capable A/C. Now they are doing things that they did not do before.

And the irony is that the IAF first laid eyes on (and sought) the Herks as far back as 1962-63! But political issues came into the picture, thus they had to slog with the An-12s instead. And so on........
Till now.

 

[noksss]

 

[proud_indian]

 

[noksss]

(Army personnel construct a bridge over the Poonch river to reconnect the Jammu-Poonch national highway following flooding in Poonch. Photo: AFP)

 

[Abingdonboy]

The one on the right is an IAF Garud.

 

[core]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

View attachment 48073

Fcking lowlife. If Kashmir was independent would the relief operations be going so well? I don't think so judging by the complete absence of the JK Civil administration in all this. Where are J&K's rescue helicopters? Their rescue teams? Their divers? Last time I checked every single one of those helicopters carrying out SAR and dropping supplies and aircraft flying in supplies had INDIAN AIR FORCE/ARMY written on them. Bound by the Geneva convention eh? That's the ONLY reason the Indian govt is carrying out these operations right?

Freedom of speech is all well and good but these people really are animals.

 

[Jai_Hind]

^Chalo gaddi aa gayi...!!

^Goverment takes 3 years to make a bridge... Army takes 3 hours..!!!

^COAS in ground 0....

 

[sancho]

I really don't understand what you are arguing over sir. All I pointed out was that the C-130Js seemed to offer 100% availability at that point in time- a pretty outstanding accomplishment especially

Exactly about that, since it's just wrong to claim any outstanding accomplishment here, just because IAF uses all C130s, since it neither takes to account what sortie or mission rate they have, nor what roles are important for IAF at the moment. It is nothing but a basic statement of how many of them are used, not more not less!

According to the same faulty logic, the C17s would have an "availability" of less than 40% now, because only 2 out of 5 to 6 are used. That alone should tell you that it's simply wrong and that you are missing what availability actually means.

As part of the C-17 contract with Boeing they are contractually obliged to ensure the C-17's fleet has 85% availability - AS A MINIMUM. From all I've heard Boeing have easily surpassed even this very high figure.

Which again proves your theory about the numbers used = availability to be wrong isn't it?

What we are witnessing is a tectonic shift in the IAF and how it is able to perform, it is not really a stretch to say that they have been operating with one hand tied behind their back for a while now thanks to the Russians

It is, because you completely ignore the fact that the problems came from the fall of the Soviet Union and the relating changes in spare supply. Do we see even remotely the problems with the MKIs bought from Russia now, that we have faced for decades with the Migs procured in Soviet times? No! And when you judge the performance, you have to take that into consideration too, because only then you will understand why we keep buying MKIs, Mi 17s, A50s and Mig 29s today. Even if we have trouble maintaining the IL76 and if the C17 is easier to maintain, the IL is peforming credibly well at the moment, which you simply can't deny by looking at the reports or? Same goes for the the AN 32 as it seems or even more so for the Mi 17. And if there are more C17s available at the moment in India, than the IAF uses in J&K, it tells us something important too.

Btw, new reports coming in:

Air Force launches MI 26 into ongoing J&K relief operation

It will prove to be very effective in flood relief. This will also assist in infrastructure development as it can carry heavy machinery and load in a single sortie...

...The deployment of MI-26 surely help in speedy repairs of roads, bridges and other essential infrastructure in addition to the supply of essentials, the sources added. Earlier, the first IL-76 with 206 passengers, including civilians, tourists and workers from other states, landed at 0730 hrs after flying five long hours over night for relief operations in Jammu and Kashmir.

Jammu Links - Jammu City, Jammu And Kashmir, India - Newspaper, Broadcasting & Media Production - Wall | Facebook


Which once again shows where the importance of the heavy lift helicopter feet lies and where IAF will face major problems in future with the CH47.

 

[Jai_Hind]

NAMES OF RESCUED PEOPLE : SRINAGAR RESCUE OPERATIONS BASE

It seems I cant enter more then 10 images... So I am making a new thread for this.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Fcking lowlife. If Kashmir was independent would the relief operations be going so well? I don't think so judging by the complete absence of the JK Civil administration in all this. Where are J&K's rescue helicopters? Their rescue teams? Their divers? Last time I checked every single one of those helicopters carrying out SAR and dropping supplies and aircraft flying in supplies had INDIAN AIR FORCE/ARMY written on them. Bound by the Geneva convention eh? That's the ONLY reason the Indian govt is carrying out these operations right?

Freedom of speech is all well and good but these people really are animals.

That old man is a relic of the past, a rabid and hateful ingrate. Best to ignore him and let nature take its logical course