Army Chief Advocates Military options against Chinese Troops

[OrionHunter]

Armoured division in mountanous areas,smoking too much?

Probably the Afghan weed he's smoking is the adulterated stuff!

This HongWu fella knows squat about military deployment but has the habit of spewing nonsense at the drop of a Chinese hat!

An armored divisions in Ladakh??? What a blooper!

 

[JSCh]

Despite all the tensions brewing between the two sides, Indian Army officials were part of the Chinese National Day celebrations, on Wednesday. On the occasion of 1 May, Indian and Chinese army officials jointly took part in the function.
The function started with Chinese national anthem.

Chinese national day is on 1st Oct, not 1st May.

 

[President]

Chinese national day is on 1st Oct, not 1st May.

They were celebrating labor day i.e on 1st May

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Maybe both sides should retreat out of all disputed territory. If both countries are willing to do that, it will defuse the tension.

Everyone was comfortable with a status quo right? Then why did your policy makers go into a posturing mode?

 

[Developereo]

Everyone was comfortable with a status quo right? Then why did your policy makers go into a posturing mode?

The problem is that both sides don't agree on the boundaries of the disputed zone, i.e. the LAC.

India erected some "fortified positions" on land which China claims is in the disputed zone; hence the PLA tents in response.

 

[jhungary]

Hey @jhungary !

Hows the wife & kids ? I loved your in-detail posts on strategy & battle plans even if an accounting & finance student like me couldn't understand most of it !

Dude, so whats your take on the situation ?

HI there

I have a wife, no kids, thanks god to that......

Thanks for supporting my post, I will try to cover your question on a more objective view

All of the military decision made around the term "Command and Control". The action on Daulat Beg Oldi does not fit either of them.

In the Indian Camp, Command and Control was lost simply by allowing the Chinese to set up camp on the passes. If the Indian have asserted C&C, the Chinese troop will not be able to set up camp in the first place

In the Chinese Camp, the Command and Control is established at the moment they set up camp. However, I should also asserted that the C&C element is irreverent due to the size of the Force nor if the sustainment is capable but rather futile to resupply a platoon in High Alt area. A platoon of soldier set up camp more like a suicide mission than a show of force if you are to demand something out of India.

Current situation dictate that both side WILL NOT have a full on engagement, I am more concern about the Chinese soldier wounded or died from Exposure than from Indian Bullet. To me this is not a military decision, rather it more look like a protest.

If things have it ways as before, the Indian will simply don't care or ignore these 40 odd soldier and carry on what they were doing. The meaning of this incursion is not as significant as many people think. Yes, the Chinese intruded the Indian territories as per previous agreement. But the effect of these soldier is neglectable . As soon as Indian going back to do whatever the ydo, same as before, the Chinese will vacate the area, also same as before.

However, if India do anything beside ignoring the Chinese, Indian will be the one with disadvantage here. Two things will lead to if action do taken out of these soldier.

1.) It may lead to an all out war, chances are slim, but still, war started with much little of a clause before, so I can't say this will not happen.

2.) Even if war does not start, the action itself allow the Chinese to know the Indian Situation. Troop strength, Troop deployment and most importantly, the deployment time. Ie. how long it take for the Indian to mobilise. This information alone is crucial if China are to do anything later

 

[HongWu]

Probably the Afghan weed he's smoking is the adulterated stuff!

This HongWu fella knows squat about military deployment but has the habit of spewing nonsense at the drop of a Chinese hat!

An armored divisions in Ladakh??? What a blooper!

China already built railways to our forward operating base in Ladakh! Armor is already deployed and Indian Army's execution is coming soon.

 

[Silverblaze]

HI there

I have a wife, no kids, thanks god to that......

Thanks for supporting my post, I will try to cover your question on a more objective view

All of the military decision made around the term "Command and Control". The action on Daulat Beg Oldi does not fit either of them.

In the Indian Camp, Command and Control was lost simply by allowing the Chinese to set up camp on the passes. If the Indian have asserted C&C, the Chinese troop will not be able to set up camp in the first place

In the Chinese Camp, the Command and Control is established at the moment they set up camp. However, I should also asserted that the C&C element is irreverent due to the size of the Force nor if the sustainment is capable but rather futile to resupply a platoon in High Alt area. A platoon of soldier set up camp more like a suicide mission than a show of force if you are to demand something out of India.

Current situation dictate that both side WILL NOT have a full on engagement, I am more concern about the Chinese soldier wounded or died from Exposure than from Indian Bullet. To me this is not a military decision, rather it more look like a protest.

If things have it ways as before, the Indian will simply don't care or ignore these 40 odd soldier and carry on what they were doing. The meaning of this incursion is not as significant as many people think. Yes, the Chinese intruded the Indian territories as per previous agreement. But the effect of these soldier is neglectable . As soon as Indian going back to do whatever the ydo, same as before, the Chinese will vacate the area, also same as before.

However, if India do anything beside ignoring the Chinese, Indian will be the one with disadvantage here. Two things will lead to if action do taken out of these soldier.

1.) It may lead to an all out war, chances are slim, but still, war started with much little of a clause before, so I can't say this will not happen.

2.) Even if war does not start, the action itself allow the Chinese to know the Indian Situation. Troop strength, Troop deployment and most importantly, the deployment time. Ie. how long it take for the Indian to mobilise. This information alone is crucial if China are to do anything later

interesting.

But do you think this is in any way comparable to the Siachin issue when India suddenly moved her troops to seize that region?

 

[jhungary]

interesting.

But do you think this is in any way comparable to the Siachin issue when India suddenly moved her troops to seize that region?

There are no way this can compare to the Siachen incident (I assume you meant the Siachen Conflict and Operation Meghdoot)

First of all, the scale is different. While the Chinese send out a platoon, both Indian and Pakistan send out a battalion strength on the Siachen Glacier.

Secondly, the Daulat Beg Oldi is a Chinese incursion, while the Siachen Glacier incident is a full on occupation attempt on both side.

What you are indeed trying to do is to compare a Military Operation with objective to a incursion aimed for protest. Those 2 are very much different. With India in Siachen, tactical advantage is on India side as Pakistani military need to fight a uphill battle against a entrenched fortification, in fact any commander who order such a attack should be hang. It's no different than a suicide mission from a mission orientated point of view.

However, in the Ladakh case, Chinese soldier first lacking the strength to hold the ground, and I don't think tenting is any sort of fortification. So even with Chinese tenting up in DBO, Indian still have the tactical advance. That is, unless a Chinese reinforce their platoon and dig up permanent fixture in DBO. But then, with that in mind, China is not looking for a protest if they start to build their own fixture. That would bring on a military build up on both side, but still, tactical advantage is still on India simply because they are their first and Chinese is on the invasion, and invasion always favor the defender.

This is my assessment

 

[Silverblaze]

There are no way this can compare to the Siachen incident (I assume you meant the Siachen Conflict and Operation Meghdoot)

First of all, the scale is different. While the Chinese send out a platoon, both Indian and Pakistan send out a battalion strength on the Siachen Glacier.

Secondly, the Daulat Beg Oldi is a Chinese incursion, while the Siachen Glacier incident is a full on occupation attempt on both side.

What you are indeed trying to do is to compare a Military Operation with objective to a incursion aimed for protest. Those 2 are very much different. With India in Siachen, tactical advantage is on India side as Pakistani military need to fight a uphill battle against a entrenched fortification, in fact any commander who order such a attack should be hang. It's no different than a suicide mission from a mission orientated point of view.

However, in the Ladakh case, Chinese soldier first lacking the strength to hold the ground, and I don't think tenting is any sort of fortification. So even with Chinese tenting up in DBO, Indian still have the tactical advance. That is, unless a Chinese reinforce their platoon and dig up permanent fixture in DBO.

This is my assessment

Yes but mobilization of troops without informing the other party is considered a hostile action. That is why I was comparing it to Siachin and operation meghdoot.

The chinese troops cannot be acting on their own.
Therefore, this could be a well thought out strategy like the Siachin.

 

[volatile]

I think China is following the same rational as India did when it invaded Siachen .

 

[jhungary]

Yes but mobilization of troops without informing the other party is considered a hostile action. That is why I was comparing it to Siachin and operation meghdoot.

The chinese troops cannot be acting on their own.
Therefore, this could be a well thought out strategy like the Siachin.

To a point yes, kind of depend on how Chinese think Ladakh is to them??

Problem is, if China indeed have something funny on the side and planned this incursion all along. I just cannot see a platoon of 40 can do much in High Alt Area. You are talking about a high altitude reinforcement, is not something you just bunch your troop in a helicopter and send them up. The only reason I can think of about sending in a 40 men force is they are pawn, if they got killed then there will be legitimate cause for war. Then again Why 40 then? Why not 5 or 10?

While it does not look token enough to proof a point, it also not big enough to hold the ground. There are more Indian Troop than the 40 Soldier. Anything the Chinese do will involve losing those soldier and start over. Even if they have a large reserve nearby (Which by the way if they do, India should had knew about them) it take time to put those reserve into the area. 40 guys simply cannot hold the Indian long enough to perform this move. Basically there are no tactical value of those 40 troops there if there will be action later.

If the contingent is bigger, I can see the value of moving those soldier in place, but 40 men does not seems to have any value if a battle is to follow.

 

[jhungary]

I think China is following the same rational as India did when it invaded Siachen .

Actually I don't think so.

If China have Siachen in mind when they send in those 40 men, then the Chinese war plans are saying they expect the 40 men in there to hold the Battalion of Indian Border Guard until Chinese reinforcement arrive.

I don't know how Chinese perceived the Indian Army but to think 40 people can hold a battalion of 150-200 for any reasonable time is honestly quite stupid.

40 men have no tactical value, if I was a Chinese Commander and I have Siachen in mind, I would send more than 40 men and 5 tent on the get go. Maybe 100 to 150. Just enough to buy time until your own reinforcement arrive.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Are you really that naïve? sorry I am not. this term was actually first used by Ex-IA Chief

Now thats your perception... You know media works in india????... Normally these journos will go and ask the chief or any other person... Are we ready for a 2 front war???? Now what you expect the army chief to say.. .NO we are not???? He will obviously say Yes we are prepared....Next second this statement becomes headlights and breaking news.... and you guys see this as chest thumping...... It is not..... Its generally the way indian media works.... and what ever you see in PDF are from TOI and times now... ...

 

[CorporateAffairs]

Did you count the proposing time in, you'd better to, or you will knock into the wall again and again, hehe!

The last Chinese incursion lasted for 17months in 1989. So, thats makes the time proposition legitimate.