Armata vs Abrams Which one is better?

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

What do you mean by this? What is so special about T-14 Armata? Does it fly or something? Does it shoots laser beams?

Time to post arguments that are valid. Not sensational stories.

T-14 is a new generation design. Unmanned turret. Driver's thermal camera. AESA and APS. It is not an upgrade of an older design. M1A2 is an upgrade of an older design.

 

[Awan68]

armata is not proven
plus tanks are increasingly relics in modern battlefield

A thing that blasts big holes into shit will never be obselete in any era, it would just keep on getting more automated.....might not even need a crew in the future yet it shall remian relevant in any battlefield....

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

T-14 has strike range 7 miles with ATGM. Abrams don't have ATGM.

 

[LeGenD]

Thanks for your effort. I stand by my words.

The COAS was general Mirza Aslam Baig who acc. to you, he was staunchly against USA...are you kidding me?.. why did he join American think tank after his retirement?

You should strive for truth, not your words.

An individual's perception can change over time. You can find evidence of my arguments in these sources:

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/22/w...rets-death-solid-ally-but-holds-hope-for.html

https://books.google.com.pk/books?i...v=onepage&q=mirza aslam beg retirement&f=true

Not only the Americans regarded him as an unpredictable and non-friendly COAS, the latter also predicted defeat of the US in the Persian Gulf War (1991).

 

[DavidSling]

T-14 is a new generation design. Unmanned turret. Driver's thermal camera. AESA and APS. It is not an upgrade of an older design. M1A2 is an upgrade of an older design.

Trophy is integrated into Abrams, and by that it will posses an APS and Windguard Aesa radar
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/8/38048.pdf
In 2016, the U.S. Army and Marine Corps began testing out the Israeli Trophy active protection system to protect their Abrams tanks from modern RPG and ATGM threats by either jamming or firing small rounds to deflect incoming projectiles.[71] The Army plans to field a brigade of over 80 tanks equipped with Trophy to Europe in 2020.[72]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#Active_protection_system

 

[LeGenD]

T-14 is a new generation design.

For Russia.

Unmanned turret.

This is not a new concept.

US experimented with unmanned turrets in the 1980s: http://warfaretech.blogspot.com/2015/05/m1-tank-test-bed-ttb-with-unmanned.html

Driver's thermal camera.

Again, not a new thing.

Thermal imaging is a common feature in the M1A2 and M1A1D specifications: http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M1/TUSK_00.jpg

The newer M1A2 series includes all of the M1A1 features plus a commander's independent thermal viewer, an independent commander's weapon station with second generation thermal imager; commander's display for digital color terrain maps; second generation thermal imaging gunner's sight with increased range; driver's integrated display and thermal management system, position navigation equipment, and a digital data bus and radio interface unit providing a common picture among M1A2s on the battlefield.

Source: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

AESA

M1 series MBT are being equipped with Windguard AESA radar as we speak.

and APS.

APS is being installed on all M1 series MBT as we speak.

It is not an upgrade of an older design. M1A2 is an upgrade of an older design.

It is a new design but it needs to be combat-effective. At present, T-14 Armata is like a "tech demonstrator."

Now, do some digging into M1A2 Abrams SEP V3 specification. For starters: https://scout.com/military/warrior/...my-M1A2-SEP-v3-Abrams-Tank-Arrives--107426939

M1A2 Abrams SEP V3 is a generational leap from the older M1A2 Abrams SEP V2, and designed to defeat armor of all kinds for years to come. In-fact, development of M1A2 Abrams SEP V4 is also in the pipeline.

Improvements in SEP V3:-

• Joint Tactical Radio System: Integration of the Government Furnished Equipment Joint Tactical Radio System Handheld, Manpack, and Small Form Fit radio to support the need to establish network readiness and maintain battle command and communications interoperability with future Brigade Combat Teams.
• Power Generation and Distribution: Aspects include Improved Amperage Alternator, Slip Ring, Enhanced Hull Power Distribution Unit/Common Remote Switching Modules, and the Battery Monitoring System. These technologies address the power demand growth potential and the need for dissemination of critical information.
• Line Replaceable Unit/Line Replaceable Modules Redesign: Migration of current force Abrams platforms to a two-level maintenance scheme can be initiated through the implementation of Line Replaceable Module technology.
• Counter Remote Control Improvised Explosive Device Electronic Warfare V3: Counter Remote Control Improvised Explosive Device Electronic Warfare/Duke V3 is the latest version from PM CREW.
• Ammunition Data Link: The ADL is required to program the M829A4 Advanced Kinetic Energy and Advanced Multi-Purpose rounds.
• Auxiliary Power Unit*: The under armor APU provides capability to operate on-board systems with a reduced probability of detection during silent watch operations.
• Armor Upgrades**: The Abrams Tank will continue to advance its ballistic protection to counter the latest threats and maintain battlefield superiority.

Source: https://www.army.mil/article/194952/army_rolls_out_latest_version_of_iconic_abrams_main_battle_tank

*All of the sophisticated functions of M1A2 Abrams SEP V3 will be working even if the engine is off.

**Improved Depleted Uranium Armor. No Russian MBT is equipped with this kind of armor.

 

[DavidSling]

For Russia.


This is not a new concept.

US experimented with unmanned turrets in the 1980s: http://warfaretech.blogspot.com/2015/05/m1-tank-test-bed-ttb-with-unmanned.html


Again, not a new thing.

Thermal imaging is a common feature in the M1A2 Abrams: http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M1/TUSK_00.jpg

The newer M1A2 series includes all of the M1A1 features plus a commander's independent thermal viewer, an independent commander's weapon station with second generation thermal imager; commander's display for digital color terrain maps; second generation thermal imaging gunner's sight with increased range; driver's integrated display and thermal management system, position navigation equipment, and a digital data bus and radio interface unit providing a common picture among M1A2s on the battlefield.

Source: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

The M1A1D specification has same features.


This is something new but US can easily implement it.


This is being installed on the M1 Abrams series MBT as we speak.


It is a new design but it needs to be combat-effective. At present, T-14 Armata is like a "tech demonstrator."

Now, do some digging into M1A2 Abrams SEP V3 specification. For starters: https://scout.com/military/warrior/...my-M1A2-SEP-v3-Abrams-Tank-Arrives--107426939

M1A2 Abrams SEP V3 is a generational leap from the older M1A2 Abrams SEP V2, and designed to defeat armor of all kinds for years to come.

Abrams is integrated with Windguard Aesa radar like I wrote above.
Also, IronVision was tested on Stryker

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Modern warfare is about counter terror, not about war between super powers. T-14 is designed with counter terror in mind. Best protection. Best strike range.

 

[moon_light]

T-14 has strike range 7 miles with ATGM. Abrams don't have ATGM.

If USA really wanted to, they can buy LAHAT from Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAHAT

 

[waz]

As it stand it is the Abrams, let's see the Armata deployed and run up some time on the field before it is declared the best tank in the world.

 

[Davos]

1 thing about Armata I don't like is the unmanned turret, to do that, you need quite a lot of automation, which mean there are going to put more maintenance/calibration time on the tank, and you have to do with 1 less crew member, which mean the downtime is longer.

Another issue I can think of is the misfire situation, how are Armata going to clear out the misfire situation when the turret is unmanned? I don't think you can do it without stopping the tank, and misfire happened quite often in war. Unless they have a way to clear the misfire round without stopping, this would be one of the major draw down on the tank itself.

G'day Mate

In a combat setting, misfire is quite rampant, especially in desert and dry environment, because sand may have blown inside the ballast and from muzzle and also heat and dry environment would have play a role in the mechanical part and the primer.

Another problem associated with misfire is something much worse, that would be a bump round, where you load a live round when you already have a live round chambered, it will result in blowing off the main gun to killing everyone inside. This happens exclusively on tank with autoloader, if the previous round fail to ignite and the gunner unwittingly load another live round in the gun.

Davo

 

[LegionnairE]

Right now I'd say T14 has an edge because it's lighter and that should help strategic mobility.

In the future if and when T14 gets the 152mm gun it'll definitely outclass the M1

M1 is still stuck with the L44 gun it's embarrassing.

 

[timmy_area51]

t-14 is a suck up to the israeli merkava , it's not a real tank . abrams is a real tank ignoring the israeli BS.

 

[LegionnairE]

t-14 is a suck up to the israeli merkava , it's not a real tank . abrams is a real tank ignoring the israeli BS.

I think you had a malfunction there. What does T14 have to do with Merkava?

 

[timmy_area51]

I think you had a malfunction there. What does T14 have to do with Merkava?

they both are for show