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ARM Cuts Off Huawei in Devastating Move

Tech’s future hurt by Arm’s decision
By Chen Qingqing Source:Global Times Published: 2019/5/23 23:38:40

US sanctions to speed up China’s technological development: expert

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Pedestrians pass a Huawei store in Beijing on Thursday. The Chinese telecom giant said Thursday that it could roll out by the fall its own operating system for smartphones and laptops in China. Photo: AFP

UK-based chip designer Arm set a bad precedent by cutting off China's Huawei, putting the spirit of contracts and free market competition behind politics, Chinese analysts said Thursday. Such behavior, as part of the China-US tech cold war, will ruin vivid collaboration on a broader scale, and no one will win in an isolated world, they noted.

Arm is reportedly cutting ties with Huawei, claiming that its designs contained US-origin technology that will be affected by the export controls issued by US authorities.

An Arm spokesperson said the company wouldn't comment on the reports, but the company "is complying with all the laws and regulations set forth by the US government," according to a statement the company sent to the Global Times late Wednesday night.

"Arm China attaches great importance to our long-term partnership with HiSilicon," a spokesperson of Arm China told the Global Times on Thursday.

The spokesperson noted that the firm is now actively communicating with the Huawei subsidiary to seek proper solutions in line with laws and regulations.

US authorities earlier added Huawei and its affiliates to a so-called Entity List, which bans the Chinese telecom giant from buying parts and components from US companies without US government approval.

On Monday, the US Department of Commerce issued a 90-day temporary license granting operators to make other arrangements.

This aggressive embargo launched by the Trump administration has disrupted the supply chain in not only the US, but also Europe and Asia, and raised tensions over possible suspensions of cooperation with Huawei among its major suppliers.

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co, the largest contract chipmaker in the world, confirmed with the Global Times on Thursday that the current shipping practice can be maintained, while all future shipments of wafers or delivery of technology will follow a due diligence process to ensure compliance with trade rules.

After some media reported that major Japanese suppliers, including Panasonic and Toshiba, were suspending shipments to Huawei, Panasonic China denied the reports and claimed that its supply to Huawei is normal.

Toshiba China also denied the reports in late afternoon by saying that it is reviewing part of its products in line with the requirements of the Entity List, but said it has not stopped working with Huawei, according to a statement released on the website of Toshiba China on Thursday.

"Suppliers keep a close eye on what's going on, while some reports are intended to create panic among them," a source close to the matter who requested anonymity told the Global Times on Thursday.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry cited the case of Alstom on Thursday when asked about Huawei, saying that the US government has always used the power of the state to clamp down on competing companies from other countries.

"Huawei's major suppliers' clarification on alleged cut-offs indicated that no company would neglect their own interest to blindly follow the unreasonable and selfish request of other countries," Lu Kang, spokesperson of the ministry, said at a routine press briefing on Thursday.

Limited impact

Some industry representatives believe Arm's move will deliver a significant blow to Huawei, as the company's major self-developed chipsets and mobile devices are based on Arm architecture.

Along with Intel's X86 structure, Arm and X86 architecture are considered the lifelines of the CPU market and the core engines for smart devices.

"This is far bigger than just banning Huawei phones in the US. If tomorrow any non-US tech company becomes too powerful, the US just has to play the so-called national threat card," a veteran industry representative from the Internet of Things sector based in Shenzhen, South China's Guangdong Province, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

While US influence in the high-tech sector is omnipresent, the tech cold war has officially become a malignant competition for technology, which puts the spirit of contracts and free market competition behind politics, said Chinese analysts.

However, industry analysts predict that the impact of this cut-off will be limited as the previous contract signed between Huawei and Arm allows the former permanent access to the Arm v8 structure, so the development of new Huawei gadgets will not be affected.

"We've also received a notice that HiSilicon will launch a new Kirin chipset on May 30, which shows its operations are all normal now," Fang Jing, an industry analyst at China Merchants Securities, told the Global Times on Thursday.

According to its contracts, Huawei is not losing critical access to the Arm instruction set, which will ensure that HiSilicon, the semiconductor division of Huawei, can continue to develop on existing architecture.

Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei told a group interview on Thursday that the suspension of cooperation with Arm has "no impact" on the company, as it has gained permanent access to Arm's architecture, according to media reports.

"It's time to show how capable HiSilicon really is and test the real Chinese innovation spirit," Fang Xingdong, founder of Beijing-based technology think tank ChinaLabs, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

Conflict over global tech

The US is not slowing down its crackdown on Chinese companies as it is mulling sanctions on more Chinese tech firms, which is likely to be a major conflict over the future of tech, said analysts.

The clampdown on Chinese tech firms also cast a shadow on the resumption of China-US trade talks.

"Trade talks can be meaningful only when the two sides show sincerity," Lu said, noting that the US crackdown on Chinese tech companies with political motives has seriously affected global tech cooperation, which will not create a sound environment for further negotiations.

The Trump administration is reportedly considering cutting American technology to more tech firms such as Megvii, a Beijing-based artificial intelligence provider, after the US added Hikvision to its export control list.

"It sets off the new phase for the disorder of global tech competition, which will lead to the collapse of the current global cooperation in high technology," Fang Xingdong said.

While the confrontation might replace collaboration, the growing pressure has made China's technology self-reliance much more urgent, as industry representatives are calling for more efforts to develop core technologies such as CPUs and software.

"The US sanctions set an alarm for the domestic ICT industry, which will accelerate the development of homegrown technologies," Fang Jing said.
 
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But those r based on ARM architecture. Without its support how do u expect them to make those kirin processors?

Huawei is finished.

Things that Huawei needs to do

1. Building a new architecture.
2. Making efficient processor based on it.
3. Making equivalent gpu
4. Making a new operating system
5. Building a new app market.
6. Providing incentives to the app manufacturers to make apps for their market.
7. Spending a huge amount behind advertising in order to market their newly made architecture, processor, OS and app market.


Sounds like a whole lot of work to me.

If we make a cost benefit analysis we'll see that it'll be better for Huawei to drop their smartphone manufacturering business from their portfolio. Sad, really sad.
This is not only Huawei's crisis. Also China's national crisis. I think Chinese government will join in to settle the problem. A lot of scientists, engineers, companies and money will be poured in these projects.
 
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According to its contracts, Huawei is not losing critical access to the Arm instruction set, which will ensure that HiSilicon, the semiconductor division of Huawei, can continue to develop on existing architecture.

Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei told a group interview on Thursday that the suspension of cooperation with Arm has "no impact" on the company, as it has gained permanent access to Arm's architecture, according to media reports.
People are missing the crucial issue here. Carefully read the quoted passage above.

The Americans believe that after Huawei is put on the entity list, it cannot use ARM technology anymore. However, Huawei (and the Chinese government) believes that the licensing is a done deal and ARM cannot cancel it after the fact.

What this means is that Huawei will just go ahead and use the ARM architecture for as long as they want and for whatever they want. Of course ARM is powerless to stop Huawei inside China. ARM will also have difficulty stopping Huawei in China-friendly countries because (1) the Chinese government will lean on the China-friendly countries and (2) the China-friendly countries get the benefit of good products at an attractive price.

The next step will be the US will freeze the bank accounts of Chinese companies and individuals in the US. Then China will nationalize US company's investments.
 
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People are missing the crucial issue here. Carefully read the quoted passage above.

The Americans believe that after Huawei is put on the entity list, it cannot use ARM technology anymore. However, Huawei (and the Chinese government) believes that the licensing is a done deal and ARM cannot cancel it after the fact.

What this means is that Huawei will just go ahead and use the ARM architecture for as long as they want and for whatever they want. Of course ARM is powerless to stop Huawei inside China. ARM will also have difficulty stopping Huawei in China-friendly countries because (1) the Chinese government will lean on the China-friendly countries and (2) the China-friendly countries get the benefit of good products at an attractive price.

The next step will be the US will freeze the bank accounts of Chinese companies and individuals in the US. Then China will nationalize US company's investments.

Nope.

Arm is powerless to stop Huawei in China.

However, What do u think will happen when Huawei will try selling their phones in markets outside China.

Furthermore, if Huawei do such illegal things without any repercussion from Chinese govt it will tranish the image of China on global areana.
 
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Nope.

Arm is powerless to stop Huawei in China.

However, What do u think will happen when Huawei will try selling their phones in markets outside China.

Furthermore, if Huawei do such illegal things without any repercussion from Chinese govt it will tranish the image of China on global areana.
Like I said, outside of China, the governments will just say "ARM already licensed its technology to Huawei -- done deal" and reject ARM's attempts to "strong-arm" Huawei. For a developing country like Bangladesh, it's pretty clear you will choose Huawei over ARM.
 
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This is not only Huawei's crisis. Also China's national crisis. I think Chinese government will join in to settle the problem. A lot of scientists, engineers, companies and money will be poured in these projects.
The group of neocon of Steve Bannon wants the US to cut China off from international capital markets. They want US companies to move out China. How will you respond?
 
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Lol

This is a truly catastrophic for Huawei.

I think Huawei should build everything from zero.

Not to mention if Huawei fight back, there will be no 5G for the world now, as Huawei hold most of the patents.

I think we should realize that USA is weaponize everything, from the economy and financial network, to technology.

To be independent from USA on almost everything is extremely important for any countries in the world. Or your fate will be like Iran, Venezuela and Huawei.

I think most countries should hold a meeting, to set the rule of trade, financial, technology standard, patent, etc, so it can't be weaponized by certain country for their own interest.

It's better if under UN.

China and Russia should take a lead.

I think the tactic USA uses is colonialization v2. We are not directly occupied, but indirectly yes.
 
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Like I said, outside of China, the governments will just say "ARM already licensed its technology to Huawei -- done deal" and reject ARM's attempts to "strong-arm" Huawei. For a developing country like Bangladesh, it's pretty clear you will choose Huawei over ARM.

That's for not u or i to decide. Whether Huawei is using the architecture legally or illegally will be decided in courts.

Furthermore, if it has been found out that Huawei has been using arm architecture without any proper lisencing agreement, I don't expect BD govt to allow such illegal activities to carry on in BD.

Govt will simply ban sellings of Huawei phones, whether it is in BD or any other country.
 
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Lol

This is a truly catastrophic for Huawei.

I think Huawei should build everything from zero.

Not to mention if Huawei fight back, there will be no 5G for the world now, as Huawei hold most of the patents.

I think we should realize that USA is weaponize everything, from the economy and financial network, to technology.

To be independent from USA on almost everything is extremely important for any countries in the world. Or your fate will be like Iran, Venezuela and Huawei.

I think most countries should hold a meeting, to set the rule of trade, financial, technology standard, patent, etc, so it can't be weaponized by certain country for their own interest.

It's better if under UN.

China and Russia should take a lead.

I think the tactic USA uses is colonialization v2. We are not directly occupied, but indirectly yes.
As I explained already, it's catastrophic if you follow the American's view of the matter. Huawei and China already expressed the opposite view. What will happen now is TSMC will have to follow the American view and all of Huawei's IC manufacturing will shift to Chinese plants.

That's for not u or i to decide. Whether Huawei is using the architecture legally or illegally will be decided in courts.

Furthermore, if it has been found out that Huawei has been using arm architecture without any proper lisencing agreement, I don't expect BD govt to allow such illegal activities to carry on in BD.

Govt will simply ban sellings of Huawei phones, whether it is in BD or any other country.
BD government and courts are not that stupid. It's very easy to say "ARM licensing is a done deal -- cannot cancel it after the fact" and tell ARM to screw off :)
 
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The group of neocon of Steve Bannon wants the US to cut China off from international capital markets. They want US companies to move out China. How will you respond?

I think it will be happened in the future, because their aim is to isolate China, to prevent China to surpass USA.

It will be useless if China capable to be independent.

But lack of interdependent between USA and China, means one country feels nothing to lose if they launch nuclear attacks to other, which will make them more eager to do so.

Especially if one of them feel cornered directly or indirectly.
 
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As I explained already, it's catastrophic if you follow the American's view of the matter. Huawei and China already expressed the opposite view. What will happen now is TSMC will have to follow the American view and all of Huawei's IC manufacturing will shift to Chinese plants.

BD government and courts are not that stupid. It's very easy to say "ARM licensing is a done deal -- cannot cancel it after the fact" and tell ARM to screw off :)
What on earth are you talking about?
Are you familar with semiconductor industry?
 
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What on earth are you talking about?
Are you familar with semiconductor industry?
I am a business man, not an engineer, but I am certain my analysis is correct since it has little to do with technical details.
 
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I think it will be happened in the future, because their aim is to isolate China, to prevent China to surpass USA.

It will be useless if China capable to be independent.

But lack of interdependent between USA and China, means one country feels nothing to lose if they launch nuclear attacks to other, which will make them more eager to do so.

Especially if one of them feel cornered directly or indirectly.
Huawei is just the beginning. The US is strangulating the chinese piece by piece. It’s not a bad thing though.
 
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The group of neocon of Steve Bannon wants the US to cut China off from international capital markets. They want US companies to move out China. How will you respond?
I don't think that would happen. The costs in all respects are too heavy. Even if, out of all the odds, he succeeds changing American policy. How could he persuade Europeans and Japan to cut relationshipment with China? Why would Japan and European countries sacrifice their national interest to meet American strategy target? European countries and Japan would eventually be the winners. They own the world market meanwhile America has half world. Money and talents will leave America. America will fall even faster.
 
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Nope.

Arm is powerless to stop Huawei in China.

However, What do u think will happen when Huawei will try selling their phones in markets outside China.

Furthermore, if Huawei do such illegal things without any repercussion from Chinese govt it will tranish the image of China on global areana.
You need to know the different between ISA and microarchitecture. The portion affected are the cortex cores, or microarchitecture, Huawei claims to have completed an inhouse core. For ISA, they are basically instruction code formats like C++ etc. So with a perpetual license, ARM cannot win in courts even outside China.

Huawei is just the beginning. The US is strangulating the chinese piece by piece. It’s not a bad thing though.
The world doesn't work like that. If trump wanted to do that, he would have done it. He is using it as a tool to negotiate. It is also hurting US, he is betting US can withstand this hurt.
 
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