Arjun News & Discussions

[karan.1970]

now you are contradicting your self?who came up with Abrams vs T-90 here..is it our idea?you got a chance and you jump on bashing Indians and now playing innocent..tell me where did that statement came up dude??that T-90 is better than Abrams from our side so there is no need for the comparative trial?

Well in context of India/Pakistan, actually T-90 is better than M1A1/A2 and so is Al-khalid since the nearest M1A1/2 is a few thousand miles away and niether side can get their hands on it for foreseeable future. That way F22 is better that mig 29 or J 10 but does that make a difference to Indo Pak China situation.. It doesnt.. So lets try and get back to Arjun and whether it will make the cut or not..

 

[Hellfire]

Well in context of India/Pakistan, actually T-90 is better than M1A1/A2 and so is Al-khalid since the nearest M1A1/2 is a few thousand miles away and niether side can get their hands on it for foreseeable future. That way F22 is better that mig 29 or J 10 but does that make a difference to Indo Pak China situation.. It doesnt.. So lets try and get back to Arjun and whether it will make the cut or not..

actually coming back to arjun, the whole thread will end in next 2 posts .....

RIP Arjun. That is all one can say ....... the IA has moved on, DRDO and Politicos and do what they want, but its the end of the road for Arjun and DRDO in this issue

IN tried to still repose faith in DRDO with HAL Tejas Naval version but look where it got them ..... and the damn thing is flying atleast !!!!!

I shudder to think about the ATV project .......!!!!!!

 

[Novice09]

Well in context of India/Pakistan, actually T-90 is better than M1A1/A2 and so is Al-khalid since the nearest M1A1/2 is a few thousand miles away and niether side can get their hands on it for foreseeable future. That way F22 is better that mig 29 or J 10 but does that make a difference to Indo Pak China situation.. It doesnt.. So lets try and get back to Arjun and whether it will make the cut or not..

@karan.1970
Should I summarize ur post b4 someone start thinking that you are saying that M1A1/A2 and F-22 are inferior to mentioned ones:

Since, Pakistan and India are not going to have M1A1/A2 and F-22 in near future, What they have is better for them

If I got it wrong, feel free to suggest amendments

 

[ambidex]

^^^^^^^
well i believe IGNORANCE IS BLISS now

I would rather tell him that Arjun is night vision capable.... brother!

 

[karan.1970]

@karan.1970
Should I summarize ur post b4 someone start thinking that you are saying that M1A1/A2 and F-22 are inferior to mentioned ones:

Since, Pakistan and India are not going to have M1A1/A2 and F-22 in near future, What they have is better for them

If I got it wrong, feel free to suggest amendments

Yes... Yes.. Please...this is exactly what I meant..

 

[xuxu1457]

the "sinking" heavy M1A1

 

[amarnath]

the "sinking" heavy M1A1

I love that bro, keep goin

 

[xuxu1457]

Be attacked by Taliban,but it still alive and have no through injury,we have to say that the M1A1 ...poor child!!

 

[xuxu1457]

 

[beckham]

Well the T-90 can penatrate 950 mm of armour compared with Abrams 790 mm. It can detection night targets at ranges as far as 1,100 meters. It's capable of firing anti tank missles. The Shtora-1 jams weapons guided laser systems, as does the 3D6 aerosol grenade discharging systems.

Does the Abrams even have protection beyond its armour?

The Abrams isn't as invisible as you may think.

Just google destroyed Abrams and you will see countless images.

Thats what happens when a $6.21 million tank don't have well developed APS.

T90`s defences are one of the best in the world, a three-tiered protection systems made up of composite armour, Kontakt-5 ERA and an APS.

 

[xuxu1457]

Thats what happens when a $6.21 million tank don't have well developed APS.

T90`s defences are one of the best in the world, a three-tiered protection systems made up of composite armour, Kontakt-5 ERA and an APS.

The two are all destroyed from the bottom,no matter with its defence

 

[beckham]

The two are all destroyed from the bottom,no matter with its defence

But, an APS could have given them better chances of survival against an RPG or ATGM.

Check this out,

 

[xuxu1457]

But, an APS could have given them better chances of survival against an RPG or ATGM.

Check this out,

yyXY7sfajS8[/media] - T-90 Active Protection Systems

[url="

FCS Quick Kill[/url]

I don't believe the armor of Russian,their composite materials technology established on the basis of the Soviet Union time,and can't keep up with the trend.The Russia lost many skilled worker and scientists in the past 20 years

 

[Khajur]

off the facts here buddy ...... while its true that there is an invariable exchange of some funds in every defence deal (and this holds true even for US) absolute generalisation can not be done and any such insinuation clearly shows a lack of clarity in understanding something called Perspective Planning in any Armed Forces (especially in IA which has a Directorate for Perspective Planning under IHQ-MOD)

Arjun's platform was only ready for induction after rectification of all drawbacks by 2006. Whereas to be seriously considered the same should have been achieved way back in 1997-98. By the time of Op Parakaram getting over, a need for urgent modernisation had been adequately drawn home.

now, inducting the same is of no use (for even the T-90s will be relegated to 2nd line of tanks by 2020) and the Dte of PP has clear ideas as to what it wants the army to be in 2020 under vision 2020, a project which is ongoing and being finetuned to supersede vision 2015.

induction of Arjun at this stage will entail complete overhaul of exiting structures in terms of administrative and logistical set ups. In addition add to it the costs of carriages, induction of bridging equipment in tremendous numbers etc etc which are additional costs. This is entail infusion of massive capital which may result in depletion of funds meant for modernisation/undertaking additional tasks within the army. So the economic and administrative sense does not come into picture

And there is yet no view of Abhay ... Project Abhay is not likely to be anything more than a term ... and we may end up upgrading the ICVs with BMP-3/BMP-T Termintors to replace the BMP-2 Saraths as more units are mechanised and converted to dual modes (mechanised in plains and normal infantry in mountains). So the asynchronous systems will be funny even if you have Arjun inducted (in terms of mechanised and armoured offensive operations)

just try to correlate things here and they shall fall into place
regards

There are few questions that rises in everyones mind on Arjun MBT vs T-90

1.why army is deliberately trying to avoid the comparative tests of Arjun MBT vs T-90 for so long??

If Arjun was found to inferior its fate'll be sealed and army can move with more T-90 i guess.

2.Our Army chief admitted that only 20% of our tanks can fight in the night times while pakistan and china have 80% and 100% capablility in that matter.

If T-90 is nighttime capable??
when would other legacy tanks in the Tseries becomes night time capable??
And how army is planning to replace these old tanks and by what ??

Talkng about T-90,it comes with its one set of problems.
T-90 rigged with engine problems and its has cooling issues in extreme heat conditions of Rajastan .It looks like IA ran out of money to put AC in these tanks.

3.IA might be right that it like to have more lighter T-90s fro its cold start doctrine.
But what happens when cold start gives way for a hot ended battle ??

If Argun is proven to be reliable and sturdy in the comparative tests ,i think IA shouldn't hesitate to go for more Arjun.



Btw,if one goes by the billions of dollors worth shoping spree of foreign armaments made by indian armed force every yr and sort of strong hesitation to buy indigenous product made by DRDO...i feel if Americans or russians were ready to sell IRBM's or ICBM's, our IA & IAF personnels would have been flocking at their doorsteps & our Prithvi's & Agni's would have been placed in museums.

 

[Veer]

There are few questions that rises in everyones mind on Arjun MBT vs T-90

1.why army is deliberately trying to avoid the comparative tests of Arjun MBT vs T-90 for so long??

If Arjun was found to inferior its fate'll be sealed and army can move with more T-90 i guess.

2.Our Army chief admitted that only 20% of our tanks can fight in the night times while pakistan and china have 80% and 100% capablility in that matter.

If T-90 is nighttime capable??
when would other legacy tanks in the Tseries becomes night time capable??
And how army is planning to replace these old tanks and by what ??

Talkng about T-90,it comes with its one set of problems.
T-90 rigged with engine problems and its has cooling issues in extreme heat conditions of Rajastan .It looks like IA ran out of money to put AC in these tanks.

3.IA might be right that it like to have more lighter T-90s fro its cold start doctrine.
But what happens when cold start gives way for a hot ended battle ??

If Argun is proven to be reliable and sturdy in the comparative tests ,i think IA shouldn't hesitate to go for more Arjun.



Btw,if one goes by the billions of dollors worth shoping spree of foreign armaments made by indian armed force every yr and sort of strong hesitation to buy indigenous product made by DRDO...i feel if Americans or russians were ready to sell IRBM's or ICBM's, our IA & IAF personnels would have been flocking at their doorsteps & our Prithvi's & Agni's would have been placed in museums.

I will go one by one.

1.) For politicians and bureaucrats all the deal = US$$$$$$$, There is a fetish for foreign items, at the Arjun's time MS Yadav was the defense minister need i say more. If you have denounced something for years how can you suddenly accept it with open arms, it will lower their credibility and everybody get to know the whole truth.

2.) The tank have no problem with Chinese borders being mountain regions and also cooler areas. Even with Pakistan there is no problem in Punjab sector, the real problem is the summer of Thar Desert. In winter there is no problem.
If a war broke out with Pakistan in summer the real tank battle ground will be Rajhastan even the atomic war if it will happen will be on this area, as Pakistan will not want its Punjab/Lahore/Multan to be wiped out. The high temperature in summer of Rajasthan desert causes damage to the night vision devices and some time they don't work or works in parts.

This types of problems occurs in all professional armies and get sorted out immediately but in India it takes a lengthy bureaucratic route.

What do you think Pakistan has all the system/weapons up to date and running fine?

It's just they are more secretive and their military does not allow it to come out.

Yes, T-90s are night capable as well as Arjun. By 2020 we will have enough MBTs to rock n roll.

IMO, the night vision devices will be there in India within this year.

3.) Arjun will prove its metal, it's world's only tank gone under so much trials, third party assessment etc.

Remember they are not going to select a winner it's just a comparative tests. No matter what will be the outcome of the test T-90 is a very good tank and same is hold true for Arjun.

The test will give army a reason and they will say the Arjun have grown up with time so we are going to order some x number of them.