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Arjun Mark II : An Israeli View [ Must Read ]

Gun_barrels_cross_sectional_drawing.png


Here's what I found.

Purple = Smoothbore
Green = Rifled bore
Pink = Polygonal

A rifled bore is nothing but a rifled gun enlarged. It has a groove inside it which induces torque in the projectile while firing it, to improve its accuracy in long range flight.
Whereas a smooth bore does not have any grooves inside it and hence don't induce torque to the projectile.
The downside of using a rifled gun is that the grooves get worn out pretty soon and hence have to replace it frequently.

I was briefed about the hydraulic system of the Arjun last week by the man who designed it himself and I tel you. It is the best in the world. But I cant provide you guys any links for it.
 
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A rifled bore is nothing but a rifled gun enlarged. It has a groove inside it which induces torque in the projectile while firing it, to improve its accuracy in long range flight.
Whereas a smooth bore does not have any grooves inside it and hence don't induce torque to the projectile.
The downside of using a rifled gun is that the grooves get worn out pretty soon and hence have to replace it frequently.

I was briefed about the hydraulic system of the Arjun last week by the man who designed it himself and I tel you. It is the best in the world. But I cant provide you guys any links for it.

Can i ask, what cross-section shape does the Arjun's rifle have?
 
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a simple more likely guess will be that T-90s are better than arjuns- your patriotism will not let you believe the obvious- and its natural- but doesn't change the realities- it just makes your inner ego happy-

Left: With Maj Gen HM Singh, who spent three decades of his career as a tankman, guiding the Arjun development

Right: A comparative chart, snapped by me at the CVRDE, Chennai, comparing the performance of the Arjun with the world's major Main Battle Tanks (MBTs)

[Ajai Shukla] India’s home-built Arjun tank has emerged a conclusive winner from its showdown with the Russian T-90. A week of comparative trials, conducted by the army at the Mahajan Ranges, near Bikaner in Rajasthan, has ended; the results are still officially secret. But Business Standard has learned from multiple sources who were involved in the trials that the Arjun tank has outperformed the T-90 on every crucial parameter.
The trial pitted one squadron (14 tanks) of Arjuns against an equal number of T-90s. Each squadron was given three tactical tasks; each involved driving across 50 kilometers of desert terrain and then shooting at a set of targets. Each tank had to fire at least ten rounds, stationary and on the move, with each hit being carefully logged. In total, each tank drove 150 kilometres and fired between 30-50 rounds. The trials also checked the tanks’ ability to drive through a water channel 5-6 feet deep.
The Arjun tanks, the observers all agreed, performed superbly. Whether driving cross-country over rugged sand-dunes; detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets; or accurately hitting targets, both stationery and moving, with pinpoint gunnery; the Arjun demonstrated a clear superiority over the vaunted T-90.
“The Arjun could have performed even better, had it been operated by experienced crewmen”, says an officer who has worked on the Arjun. “As the army’s tank regiments gather experience on the Arjun, they will learn to exploit its capabilities.”
With the trial report still being compiled --- it is expected to reach Army Headquarters after a fortnight --- neither the army, nor the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), which developed the Arjun tank in Chennai at the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), are willing to comment officially about the trials.
The importance of this comparative trial can be gauged from a list of those who attended. Witnessing the Arjun in action were most of the army’s senior tank generals, including the Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen D Bhardwaj; strike corps commander, Lt Gen Anil Chait; Army Commander South, Lt Gen Pradeep Khanna; and Deputy Chief of the Army Staff, Lt Gen JP Singh. The Director General of Military Operations, Lt Gen AS Sekhon also attended the trials.
Over the last four months, the army had systematically signalled that it did not want to buy more Arjuns. The message from senior officers was: 124 Arjun tanks have been bought already; no more would be ordered for the army’s fleet of 4000 tanks. The comparative trial, or so went the message, was merely to evaluate what operational role could be given to the army’s handful of Arjuns.
“The senior officers who attended the trials were taken aback by the Arjun’s strong performance”, an army officer who was present through the trials frankly stated. “But they were also pleased that the Arjun had finally come of age.”
The army’s Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which has bitterly opposed buying more Arjuns, will now find it difficult to sustain that opposition. In keeping out the Arjun, the DGMF has opted to retain the already obsolescent T-72 tank in service for another two decades, spending thousands of crores in upgrading its vintage systems.
Now, confronted with the Arjun’s demonstrated capability, the army will face growing pressure to order more Arjuns.
The current order of 124 Arjuns is equipping the army’s 140 Armoured Brigade in Jaisalmer. With that order almost completed, the Arjun production line at the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi, near Chennai, needs more orders urgently. The Rs 50 crore facility can churn out 50 Arjuns annually. That would allow for the addition of close to one Arjun regiment each year (a regiment is authorised 62 tanks).
Tank experts point out that conducting trials only in Mahajan does not square with the army’s assertion that they are evaluating a role for the Arjun. Says Major General HM Singh, who oversaw the Arjun’s development for decades, “If they were evaluating where the Arjun should be deployed, they should have conducted the trials in different types of terrain: desert, semi-desert, plains and riverine. It seems as if the army has already decided to employ the Arjun in the desert.”
The {ln:mbt-arjun
Arjun}’s sterling performance in the desert raises another far-reaching question: should the Arjun --- with its proven mobility, firepower and armour protection --- be restricted to a defensive role or should it equip the army’s strike corps for performing a tank’s most devastating (and glamorous) role: attacking deep into enemy territory during war? Each strike corps has 8-9 tank regiments. If the army recommends the Arjun for a strike role, that would mean an additional order of about 500 Arjuns.
But Business Standard has learned that senior officers are hesitant to induct the Arjun into strike corps. Sources say that the Arjun will be kept out of strike formations on the grounds that it is incompatible with other strike corps equipment, e.g. assault bridges that cannot bear the 60-tonne weight of the Arjun.
 
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I know that- whats your MBT then?

alrite so you people now even started skeptism about israeli things?? Merkava is bad tank and Al Khalid is a good tank
here my version Merkava is a bad tank for terrorist and intruders and Al khalid is a good tank for enemy who loves to turkey shoot sheer patrotism should be avoided in a world class products ...
 
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A rifled bore is nothing but a rifled gun enlarged. It has a groove inside it which induces torque in the projectile while firing it, to improve its accuracy in long range flight.
Whereas a smooth bore does not have any grooves inside it and hence don't induce torque to the projectile.
The downside of using a rifled gun is that the grooves get worn out pretty soon and hence have to replace it frequently.

I was briefed about the hydraulic system of the Arjun last week by the man who designed it himself and I tel you. It is the best in the world. But I cant provide you guys any links for it.

About the bold part, those words are used loosely, it should have been better if we called one of the best in world. Best in world sounds more fanboy. I get concerned when my fellow countrymen get's over exicited.
 
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Don't worry guys they won;t accept,when arjun mark 2 will be out with specs..then lets talk...
 
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About the bold part, those words are used loosely, it should have been better if we called one of the best in world. Best in world sounds more fanboy. I get concerned when my fellow countrymen get's over exicited.

I meant what I said. :smokin:
 
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Thank's for the insight into my mind! Now, tell me where I claimed that Arjun is a better tank?

This thread is not about you- and where did i claim you were saying that? i was talking about general indian public-
 
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we unfortunately have three of them T-72 ajeya,T-90 Bhishma And CVRDE Arjun!but the T-72's will be replaced with FMBT beyond 2018.........:)
Bro- be practice- give me one- as it should be-
 
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Where is the Link for this article?

The language used in the article doesn't sound of a professional but a street vendor , this person has never been in An Alkhalid but still he has words to say which truly is nothing more than assumptions on how capable AK really is against Arjunk.

Pakistan Army Refused M1 Abrahams , you could tell the level of our expectations from a tank such as Al Khalid. Army would never mass produce a tank which never met operational requirements and proved itself in the battlefield.



Israelis have a history of exaggerating their hardware , i mean let me ask if Arjun is better than merkava in the mind of our little Israeli , why doesn't israeli military buy this super dooper Tank to replace their merkava which is now considered to be a failure ?

P.S-only chinese products are world class like JF17,J10... :D

All of you Indians can have fun with thinking that "oh yea this Israeli fellow isn't talking nonsense - Arjun is much better than Al Khalid " -- all of the above quoted comparison is based on FACTS not Assumptions and only a battle will tell who has more guts - till then go to sleep and have sweet dreams about Arjuns superiority over Al Khalid while we work on a newer much advanced Al Khalid II.
for now Compare T 72 to al khalid
When you have advanced Al kha lide then come to us btw Arjun mk2 is here ,ready for trails (some one plz give him creadible link /sleeping pills so he can sleep well)... :coffee:
 
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This thread is not about you- and where did i claim you were saying that? i was talking about general indian public-

No sh*t! This thread isn't about me. Well done! Then why did you direct your statements at me by quoting me?
 
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This thread is not about you- and where did i claim you were saying that? i was talking about general indian public-

you should be better care about general pakistan public mate... Most of pakistani open threads claiming Pakistan rejected F 18 or abhram because it failed to qualify but the truth it failed to qualify when it comes to operiatonal cost.
P.S- prove me wrong with official pakistan /american statement ...
 
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Can i ask, what cross-section shape does the Arjun's rifle have?

The Arjun has a rifled gun, a design concept that appealed to both British and Indian designers respectively. And there was a reason for it. Both Armies used HESH ammo among the range of ammo in use--HEAT, AFSPDS etc. Now HESH was an ammo developed for anti-tank use before the advent of "chobham" composite sandwich armor. Later HESH was found to be effective against heavily built up structures, a sort of bunker buster. The other types of ammo are quite ineffective against built up structures, e.g. HEAT rounds will not do anything much to fortifications. So it is a matter of doctrinal use.

Of course, what sirius4u has written is correct. Rifled guns are more difficult and expensive to make and need earlier replacement than smooth-bore guns. Now with rapid and exponential development of various kind of missiles from different launch vehicles and modes; there will begin a discussion on the eventual life of the "big guns" on tanks and other armored vehicles.
 
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