Are tHere Muslims In Indian Forces????

[matti]

back to the topic
WTF.........
only 29000 muslims in army of more than a million, and there are 150 million muslims in india.
Now thats discrimination.
are muslims allowed to rise to higher ranks?

 

[notsuperstitious]

back to the topic
WTF.........
only 29000 muslims in army of more than a million, and there are 150 million muslims in india.
Now thats discrimination.
are muslims allowed to rise to higher ranks?

No, India is a Hindu Nation, we don't let minorities enter our armed forces, let alone lead them, even the top positions of the our government are reserved for our brand of hindus (we also decide who's hindu and who's not).

Supreme Cmmander of the Armed Forces



Air Chief Marshal Idris Latif

 

[Bhushan]

Not a complete list:

Param Vir Chakra

Company Havildar Major Abdul Hamid, (4 Grenadiers)

Maha Vir Chakra

Mohammed Ismail: 1947-48 Operation
Brig. Mohammed Usman: Indo-Pakistan War

Ashok Chakra
The Ashok Chakra is awarded for valour, courageous action or self-sacrifice away from the battlefield. It is the peace time equivalent of the Param Vir Chakra and is awarded for the "most conspicuous bravery or some daring or pre-eminent valour or self-sacrifice" other than in the face of the enemy.

Vir Chakra

Kirti Chakra
Kirti Chakra is awarded for valor, courageous action or self-sacrifice away from the battlefield. It is the peacetime equivalent of the Maha Vir Chakra. It is second in order of precedence of peacetime gallantry awards.

2007: Mohd. Shan Ahmed (posthumous) was posted as Cash Overseer at post office Jhansi. On 26 December, 2005, resisted looting of cash and in the attempt succumbed to fatal injuries inflicted by armed miscreants. He belonged to Jhansi (UP).

Shaurya Chakra
The Shaurya Chakra is the third level award for gallantry away from the battlefield and by far the nearest equivalent of the Vir Chakra Award for Peacetime.

2009:
Lance Havildar Aziz Mohd: 20 Jammu and Kashmir Rifles (Posthumous)
Sapper/Operator Executive Machinery Budhu Khan (Posthumous)
Naik Mohd Sadiq

2008:
Rifleman Abdul Hamid Chara: 162 Infantry Battalion TA (H&H)JAK LI/18 Rashtriya Rifles(posthumous)

2007:
Rifleman Raiece Ahmad Ganaie: Jammy & Kashmir Light Infantry/50 Rashtriya Rifles

2006:
Havildar Mohammad Maroof: 23 Rajput Regiment,
Havildar Abrahim: Jammu And Kashmir Light Infantry/47 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Riyaz Ahmad Bhat: Assam Regiment/35 Rashtriya Rifles

Bar to Sena Medal (gallantry)

Sena Medal (gallantry)

2009:
Havildar Ilyas Ali: 32 Assam Rifles
Lance Naik Javaid Ahmad Wani: Jamm and Kashmir Light Infantry// 44 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Mohamad Hadish: 24 Assam Rifles (Posthumous)

2008:
Subedar Mohd Rashid: Jammu and Kashmir Rifles/28 Rashtriya Rifles
Naik Mohammed Amin Bhat: Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry/62 Rashtriya Rifles
Sepoy Abdul Hamid: 153 Infantry Battalion (TA) Dogra
Sepoy Abdul Hamid: 156 Inf Bn TA (H&H) Punjab/58 Rashtriya Rifles
Sepoy Qumer-ud-din Beg: 156 Inf Bn TA (H&H) Punjab/58 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Ishtiaq Ahmed: Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry/18 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Mehmood Ahmed Itoo: Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry/33 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Mohd Yousaf Lone: 161 Infantry Battalion TA (H&H) JAK LI
Rifleman Mazafar Iqbal: 14 Assam Rifles

2007:
Captain Anas Ahmad: 19 Kumaon Regiment
Lance Naik Mehmood Shah: 3 Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry
Sepoy Mohd Sharief: 159 Infantry Batallion (TA)(H&G) Dogra, 23 Rashtriya Rifles
Sepoy Jabir Khan: Mechanised Infantry/9 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Gohar Ali Khan: Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry/19 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Mohammad Sayed Mantoo: Jammu & Kashmir Fiels/18 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Abdul Rahim Dar: 162 Infantry Battalion (TA) JAK LI/14 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Nazir Ahmad Wani: 162 Infantry Battalion (TA) JAK LI/14 Rashtriya Rifles
Rifleman Md Ibrahim Khan: 33 Assam Rifles

2006:
Company Havildar Major Mohammad Ashraf Sheikh: 22 Maratha Light Infantry.
Lance Naik Farooq Ahmad Rather: 20 Jammu And Kashmir Rifles

Param Vishisht Seva Medal
The Param Vishsish Seva Medal is awarded to recognize "distinguished service of the most exceptional order" to all ranks of the armed forces. In practice, however, the award tends to be granted only to the most senior officers of the various branches of the Indian military. The award may be granted posthumously and subsequent awards are represented by a bar worn on the ribbon. The award carries with it the right to use "P.V.S.M." as postnominal letters.

2008:
Lieutenant General Zameer uddin Shah, SM, VSM: Regiment of Artillery(General Cadre)

Ati Vishisht Seva Medal

2009:
Major General Syed Ata Hasnain, SM, VSM: Infantry: HQ 19 Infantry Division

Vishisht Seva Medal

2009:
Air Commodore Naseem Akhtar: Flying (Pilot)

2008:
Group Captain Zia Ahmad Rizvi: Logistics

Sena Medal

2009:
Brigadier Khurshid Maneck Balsara: Naga Regiment
Brigadier Pattiarimal Mohamadali Hariz, VSM: Mechanised Infantry/ HQ 91 Infantry Brigade

2008:
Colonel Steve Muzaffar Ismail: 2/1 Gorkha Rifles
Subedar Mohd Ilyas: 3, Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry Regimental Centre

Nao Sena Medal (gallantry)

Vayu Sena Medal (gallantry)

2009:
JWO Jawed Hussain Siddiqi, Flt Eng

Mention-in-dispatches

2009:
Rakshak:
Lance/Naik Abdul Rashid Khan: Territorial Army, 5 Rashtriya Rifles
Rhino:
Captain Mudassar Iqbal: 2 Bihar

 

[Zaheerkhan]

Muslims in Army : Hiding what`s well-known

The reason for the Muslim under-representation in the Indian army, or the Sikh over-representation, is something that lies partly in history, and its public disclosure would harm nobody.

There’s something surreal about India’s debate on Muslim under-representation in the Indian army. If the defence minister says the army has done no head-count of its Muslims, how did the army give an exact Muslim figure of 29,093 last month? The figure is backed by a retired lieutenant-general who says the Muslims are 2 per cent.

Whatever the exact percentage, a huge Muslim under-representation in our army is a fact. So is a huge Sikh over-representation. See the contrast. Sikhs form 1.86 per cent of India’s population but number around 8 per cent in the Indian army. Muslims form 13 per cent of India’s population but are 2 per cent in the army. Why should this truth about Muslim under-representation be suppressed? Or that of Sikh over-representation? But an irrational love of secrecy causes Indian rulers to hide information whose public disclosure would harm nobody.
Just as Muslims are under-represented in the army, so are the Bengalis, Biharis, Oriyas, south Indians or Gujaratis. And just as Sikhs are over-represented, so are the Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Gurkhas, Marathas, Pathans and Punjabis.

The reason for this disparity lies in history. The Indian army’s recruitment pattern was set 150 years ago by India’s 1857 uprising. Traumatised by the rebellion, the British army adopted a recruitment policy that punished the groups which rebelled and rewarded the ones that stayed loyal. Because Muslims of Awadh, Bihar and West Bengal led the uprising, the British army stopped hiring soldiers from these areas.

Also blacklisted from these places were high-caste Hindus whose regiments in Bengal had also mutinied. In contrast, the British raised the recruitment of castes that had stood by the British to put down the uprising. These castes were the Sikhs, the Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Gurkhas, Marathas, Pathans, plus Punjabis, both Hindus and Muslims. Honoured as martial races, they received preferential treatment in army recruitment for the next 90 years. Like any institution, the Indian army’s a prisoner of the past.

Even today, it favours enlisting men from the martial races. Their over-representation in the Indian army is huge. Figures bear this out. Of 2.87 lakh jawans hired by the army in the last three years, a disproportionate 44,471 came from three “martial” states, Punjab, Haryana, and the mountain state of Uttaranchal. So these states which account for 5 per cent of India’s population provided 15 per cent of India’s army jawans.

In contrast, the fewest recruits came from “non-martial” West Bengal, Bihar and Gujarat. These three states account for 30 per cent of India’s population, but they provided only 14 per cent of army jawans in this three-year period. So the Indian army has not only a religion-based disparity in recruitment, but also one based on caste and region. A glimpse of this discrimination was provided by a press release issued by a defence office in Jammu five years ago. Seeking recruits for the Indian army, the press release said: “No vacancies for Muslims and tradesmen.” Meaning that martial Dogras were welcome to apply, but not Hindu business castes like the Baniyas and the Khatris.

About the Muslim under-representation in the Indian army, the reasons are three. One was Partition. Before Independence, Muslims were around 25 per cent of the Indian army and 25 per cent of undivided India. But when India broke up and Muslim soldiers were asked to choose between India and Pakistan, they joined Pakistan en masse. So Muslim numbers in the Indian army dropped so drastically that they were only 2 per cent in 1953, according to India’s then minister of state for defence. Jawaharlal Nehru himself expressed concern that “hardly any Muslims” were left in the army. And Muslim numbers never really picked up in the last 60 years for a well-known reason.

India’s military establishment hesitates to hire Muslims as soldiers because it suspects Muslim loyalty to India. This discrimination is a natural outcome of India and Pakistan’s bitter hostility over 60 years. In similar situations, the same thing happens all over the world. The Israeli army doesn’t trust its Arab soldiers in jobs related to defence security. The Buddhist Sinhalese army under-recruits its Hindu Tamils lest their sympathies lie with the Tamil Tigers. After 9/11, US army recruiters would probably screen a Muslim American volunteer more thoroughly than a Christian American. Thanks to our four wars with Pakistan, the same anti-Muslim animus works here in army recruitment.

Proof of it lies in an enormous mass of documentary and other evidence which expresses distrust of Muslims. Otherwise, why does India have separate regiments for the Sikhs, Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Mahars, the Nagas, even the Gurkhas, but not a single Muslim regiment? This is tragic but it’s a truth which shouldn’t be suppressed. It should be acknowledged and dealt with.

Events have consequences. Muslim under-recruitment in the Indian army is a consequence of Partition. India and Pakistan’s hostility is seen in both countries in Hindu versus Muslim terms. So it’s natural for India’s Hindu army establishment to distrust a Muslim who wants to join as a soldier.

This prejudice itself discourages qualified Muslim youths from applying, which drives down Muslim numbers even more. Another reason for Muslim under-recruitment is the relatively poor education of Muslims. When they try to enlist as soldiers, they are simply out-competed by better-educated Sikh, Hindu, and Christian youths. So Muslim leaders are quite right that Muslim under-recruitment in the army deprives the community of a good, life-long source of employment. It’s a sad situation not so easy to correct.

In life, however, one man’s meat is another man’s poison. The under-representation of Muslims and other caste or regional groups benefits the over-represented ones. The composition of the Indian army is totally askew numbers-wise. West Bengal’s population is eight times that of Uttaranchal. But Uttaranchal provided almost the same number of army recruits as West Bengal last year. Compare a “martial” Punjab with a non-martial Gujarat. Punjab’s population is half that of Gujarat. But it provided four times as many people to the Indian army as Gujarat. The Indian army hired far more recruits in Rajasthan than in Tamil Nadu though Tamil Nadu’s population is higher. Essentially, the Indian army is dominated numbers-wise by Sikhs and Hindi-speaking Hindus of north India. The current status quo suits them perfectly.

Its funny to here a Pakistani talk about under-representation..what r u doing to your fellow Baloch, Pashtun citizens...who are muslims living in Pakistan?? What's their representation in the armed forces??

Muslims in India are Indians first.

 

[Haanzo]

GUYS THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH BLOODBATH ALREADY ....I ASK ALL INDIAN MEMBERS TO BOYCOTT THIS THREAD ...THERE WILL BE NOTHING TO FEED TROLLS HERE IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR NATIONALITY ...SO WHO IS WITH ME ...PLEASE BOYCOTT THIS THREAD

 

[indiatech]

back to the topic
WTF.........
only 29000 muslims in army of more than a million, and there are 150 million muslims in india.
Now thats discrimination.
are muslims allowed to rise to higher ranks?

Ridiculous again. Who is stopping whom? or who is discriminating whom ? Below is an example.

Air Chief Marshal Idris Hassan Latif, PVSM [Air Chiefs Since 1947]

point is that if anyone wants to be in forces, they are welcome. If they don't do you want the govt to force them into it?
You can take a horse to water, but how do you make him drink?

 

[Captain03]

It is so pathetic, I saw muslim Indian soldiers praying during the kargil war before fighting against PAK ARMY. What dio they think, that is so stupid

i know what you mean
i mean what kind of muslim are you that you are taking the side of a kafir army that is trying to destroy a nation built on islam and has muslims on the other army [most likely if you kill the other army's personnel it's probably gonna be a muslim]

 

[Haanzo]

i know what you mean
i mean what kind of muslim are you that you are taking the side of a kafir army that is trying to destroy a nation built on islam and has muslims on the other army [most likely if you kill the other army's personnel it's probably gonna be a muslim]

please remember they are INDIANS first and later muslims

if an unknown person attacks your mother and he is wearing a skull cap will you keep quiet just because he is muslim ...please be rational

 

[godsavetheworld]

GUYS THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH BLOODBATH ALREADY ....I ASK ALL INDIAN MEMBERS TO BOYCOTT THIS THREAD ...THERE WILL BE NOTHING TO FEED TROLLS HERE IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR NATIONALITY ...SO WHO IS WITH ME ...PLEASE BOYCOTT THIS THREAD

I AGREE. LET US NOT DERODE THE HONOUR OF OUR ARMED FORCES BY RESPONDING TO SUCH TROLL POSTS. THE WORLD'S SECOND LARGEST ARMY DOESNOT NEED A LESSON IN 'SECULARISM' FROM ANYONE. ESPECIALLY PAKISTAN!!

WE WERE BORN AND BROUGHT UP, TO LOVE ALL RELIGIONS, AND WE DONT NEED TO LOSE OUR IDEALS TO THIS NONSENSE.

LET THIS BE LAST AND THE CONCLUSIVE POST BY ANY INDIAN TO THIS BS!

 

[indiatech]

----deleted---------

 

[x_man]

Thread that started with a one liner has blown out of proportions here. I don’t think that it’s a difficult concept to understand that in armed forces especially; loyalties with the land are always (and should be) above the ones with the religion, cast and creed. Once you sign up for forces, you bury all your biases and prejudices down the deepest pit ...or else...the system automatically filters you out.

Right now, we have officers and jawans who are fighting against the perpetrators who may be from their own religion/clans/or extended tribes. There were also Balochi officers who took part in Balochistan operation 2005/2006 etc etc....I don’t see any reason that why Indian Muslim soldier won’t fight against Pakistan...or vice versa that why Sikh/Hindu soldiers from Pakistan Armed forces won’t fight with valour against Indians...

Those who think that religion should take an upper seat than the loyalty with the land, are perhaps suffering from their own identity issues and possibly indirectly supporting the Talibani type thinking that we all despise.

 

[Captain03]

please remember they are INDIANS first and later muslims

if an unknown person attacks your mother and he is wearing a skull cap will you keep quiet just because he is muslim ...please be rational

no they are MUSLIMS FIRST AND LATER INDIANS
the first thing a child gets taught in any part of the world is his religion

 

[Captain03]

So only PAK army has the license to kill , first it was bangladesh, now it is Talibans. Rest all are kafirs. Is that what you mean ?

there is no evidence of the the bengali incident u are talking about and the taliban are already claimed to be kafirs by the whole pakistan and the rest of the muslim world
know what you are talking about first b4 u speak

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

t and the taliban are already claimed to be kafirs by the whole pakistan and the rest of the muslim world

How cute, they feel the same way about your lot. Happy fighting.

Personally, I think the Indian muslims are the real muslims, because they put their country before their religion.

 

[Born In The USA]

no they are MUSLIMS FIRST AND LATER INDIANS
the first thing a child gets taught in any part of the world is his religion

In the real world the first thing a child is taught is how to be a good human being.
I dont care what anyone's religious beliefs are but i will tell you this that no one has the right to say that an Indian Muslim serving in the army is not a proper Muslim or for that matter any muslim better than the other.