Are T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks outperforming T-72/T90 series tanks in Ukraine War?

[CrazyZ]

Are T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks outperforming T-72/T90 series tanks in the Ukraine War? By external assessments.... losses of T-72/T90 series tanks is significantly above losses of T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks in this war. Some of this may be due to tactics and advanced anti-tank missiles supplied to Ukraine. Any thoughts?

 

[Beny Karachun]

Russiab people said the Merkava is garbage when only 5 Merkavas were destroyed in 2006 war, now 2700 Russian tanks got destroyed in the Ukraine war

 

[CrazyZ]

Russiab people said the Merkava is garbage when only 5 Merkavas were destroyed in 2006 war, now 2700 Russian tanks got destroyed in the Ukraine war

Merkava is better designed for crew survivability then Soviet tank designs. But keep in mind that no tank is invincible and Merkava has not had to deal with advanced anti-tank missiles over the vast spans of muddy territory as we see in the current conflict. Merkava is heavy especially in the front. I think it would more likely get stuck in the mud if it was involved in the current conflict.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Merkava is better designed for crew survivability then Soviet tank designs. But keep in mind that no tank is invincible and Merkava has not had to deal with advanced anti-tank missiles over the vast spans of muddy territory as we see in the current conflict. Merkava is heavy especially in the front. I think it would more likely get stuck in the mud if it was involved in the current conflict.

Lol, Merkava only got destroyed by Kornets to the side, and heavy IEDs. Kornets couldn't penetrate it from the front.

There's more mud and far worse terrain in the Golan and Lebanon than in Ukraine. Merkava is actually faster and has better suspension system than the T-90, especially offroad, the tank was designed for that.

Merkava would be essentially invincible against ATGMs, thanks to the Trophy system. Only threats would be anti tank mines and other tanks with APFSDS shells.

 

[CrazyZ]

One big lesson from this conflict is the danger of modern anti-tank missiles. I think active protection systems would only work against unsophisticated enemies. Sophisticated militaries will find a way around APS...either with tactics or tech, IMO.

In terms of T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks vs T-72/T90 series tanks I would say the T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks are doing better because of faster reverse speeds (making it easier to shoot and scoot) and Ukrainians tankers keeping less ammunition inside their tanks and keeping any stowed ammunition inside well protected (to minimize the inherit safety issues with the carousel autoloader).

This is the second big lesson of this conflict, IMO. Carousel autoloaders are dangerous and obsolete. Chinese and Pakistani tanks should abandon them going forward, IMO.

 

[PakFactor]

One big lesson from this conflict is the danger of modern anti-tank missiles. I think active protection systems would only work against unsophisticated enemies. Sophisticated militaries will find a way around APS...either with tactics or tech, IMO.

In terms of T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks vs T-72/T90 series tanks I would say the T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks are doing better because of faster reverse speeds (making it easier to shoot and scoot) and Ukrainians tankers keeping less ammunition inside their tanks and keeping any stowed ammunition inside well protected (to minimize the inherit safety issues with the carousel autoloader).

This is the second big lesson of this conflict, IMO. Carousel autoloaders are dangerous and obsolete. Chinese and Pakistani tanks should abandon them going forward, IMO.

A recent assessment from the Pentagon is that the more significant anti-tank missile threat to any US vehicle is from top-attack types.
They are preparing for more funding to develop solutions to counter this threat.

 

[Foinikas]

Russiab people said the Merkava is garbage when only 5 Merkavas were destroyed in 2006 war, now 2700 Russian tanks got destroyed in the Ukraine war

You got a point...of course many of the tanks were destroy by top-attack weapons. You have to give them that.

 

[CrazyZ]

A recent assessment from the Pentagon is that the more significant anti-tank missile threat to any US vehicle is from top-attack types.
They are preparing for more funding to develop solutions to counter this threat.

There is a limit to how much armor can be added to the top and I don't think APS is a magic solution. Lets see what they come up with. I think some sort of next gen spaced armor on top is the best solution.

 

[PakFactor]

There is a limit to how much armor can be added to the top and I don't think APS is a magic solution. Lets see what they come up with. I think some sort of next gen spaced armor on top is the best solution.

I feel that would be the solution as well, or DU armor.

 

[Beny Karachun]

You got a point...of course many of the tanks were destroy by top-attack weapons. You have to give them that.

Yeah, but I would guess at least 50 percent of those were destroyed by direct attack weapons.

There is a limit to how much armor can be added to the top and I don't think APS is a magic solution. Lets see what they come up with. I think some sort of next gen spaced armor on top is the best solution.

APS really is a magic solution.

 

[Foinikas]

Yeah, but I would guess at least 50 percent of those were destroyed by direct attack weapons.

APS really is a magic solution.

I agree,they were left behind.

Trophy has proved its worth in Gaza and is a valuable in modern battle.

 

[CrazyZ]

APS really is a magic solution.

Russian tanks with APS have been destroyed in this conflict.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Russian tanks with APS have been destroyed in this conflict.

Russia is too poor to field any APS, or their APS are just garbage

 

[alimobin memon]

One big lesson from this conflict is the danger of modern anti-tank missiles. I think active protection systems would only work against unsophisticated enemies. Sophisticated militaries will find a way around APS...either with tactics or tech, IMO.

In terms of T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks vs T-72/T90 series tanks I would say the T-64/T-80/T-84 series tanks are doing better because of faster reverse speeds (making it easier to shoot and scoot) and Ukrainians tankers keeping less ammunition inside their tanks and keeping any stowed ammunition inside well protected (to minimize the inherit safety issues with the carousel autoloader).

This is the second big lesson of this conflict, IMO. Carousel autoloaders are dangerous and obsolete. Chinese and Pakistani tanks should abandon them going forward, IMO.

Had this discussion in some other thread. Pak and chinese tank have protective capsule so that turret doesnt popout due to secondry explosion by stored ammunition. Still doesnt seem a relief.

 

[CrazyZ]

Had this discussion in some other thread. Pak and chinese tank have protective capsule so that turret doesnt popout due to secondry explosion by stored ammunition. Still doesnt seem a relief.

I think the best solution is to abandon the carousel auto-loader in favor of western style auto-loaders as seen on French and Japanese tanks. VT-4 hull is great mechanically....much better then T-90, IMO. Personally I think HIT should develop a new turret with western style auto-loader as part of the "Al-Haider" tank project.