Arabs lose faith in Western democracy to deliver economic stability: BBC

[MH.Yang]

Please list the successful Communist countries...

Lets just say we have Communism Democracy with Chinese American characteristics.

OK. Although I don't admit that the USA is a real democracy, I admit that the USA is a real free country.

But I think excessive freedom is like too much entropy. In isolated systems, entropy always tends to increase, and so does freedom. More and more entropy will eventually lead to the extinction of the entire universe, as will freedom.

 

[kankan326]

Please list the successful Communist countries...

Lets just say we have Communism Democracy with Chinese American characteristics that's why we have succeeded where others have failed.

Fine with us. Just don't spread it to other countries or feel superior to non-democratic countries.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

OK. Although I don't admit that the USA is a real democracy, I admit that the USA is a real free country.

But I think excessive freedom is like too much entropy. In isolated systems, entropy always tends to increase, and so does freedom. More and more entropy will eventually lead to the extinction of the entire universe, as will freedom.

Somehow your answer reminds me of this "protector" creature in Dungeons and Dragons where you have to be extremely careful of what you say to it. If you say "keep me safe from all attacks" it is liable to stick you in a box at the bottom of an abandoned mine.

 

[mili]

Forget Arabs, westerners have lost faith in western 'democracy'.

 

[MH.Yang]

Somehow your answer reminds me of this "protector" creature in Dungeons and Dragons where you have to be extremely careful of what you say to it. If you say "keep me safe from all attacks" it is liable to stick you in a box at the bottom of an abandoned mine.

First of all, freedom is necessary, just like entropy. The world without entropy is also a world of death, just like freedom.

But freedom is a kind of human resistance to obstacles and constraints, as well as a kind of resistance to order, just like entropy.

What animal is the most free? Not human. The monkey in the forest, who has the greatest power, is the monkey king, who can occupy all female monkeys, without any order and rules. These monkeys are freer than humans. Primitive humans are also more free than modern humans. As long as you have a big stick, you can do whatever you want.

So freedom is not the more the better, just like entropy.

A reasonable social system is to find a proper balance between freedom and order.

Excessive freedom will only lead to all the little monkeys being controlled by the monkey king on Wall Street. Excessive freedom is equal to no freedom.

 

[gambit]

OK. Although I don't admit that the USA is a real democracy, I admit that the USA is a real free country.

But I think excessive freedom is like too much entropy. In isolated systems, entropy always tends to increase, and so does freedom. More and more entropy will eventually lead to the extinction of the entire universe, as will freedom.

He asked for a list of 'successful' commie countries. Can you answer that directly instead of beating around the bush?

 

[MH.Yang]

He asked for a list of 'successful' commie countries. Can you answer that directly instead of beating around the bush?

There is no real communist country, let alone a successful communist country.

The Chinese define China as a socialist country with Chinese characteristics. We are still in the primary stage of socialism, and communism is the advanced stage of socialism. Obviously, we are not a communist country, and we are temporarily unable to achieve our ideals and goals.

And we don't recognize the Soviet Union as a communist country. The Soviet Union is a chauvinist empire.

Nor is North Korea. Communist countries do not allow fathers to hand over rights to their sons, so North Korea is a feudal kingdom.

Cuba and Vietnam are not Communist countries either. Like us, they are still in the primary stage of socialism.


BTW: In the future, the Chinese will use China's success to define what is a real communist country.

 

[PakFactor]

Somehow your answer reminds me of this "protector" creature in Dungeons and Dragons where you have to be extremely careful of what you say to it. If you say "keep me safe from all attacks" it is liable to stick you in a box at the bottom of an abandoned mine.

At least your safe in the mine from all attacks lol

 

[Bengal71]

Muslim has started democracy since Muslim made their first nation in Madinah. The first President of Muslim is prophet Muhammad.

The first Caliph who is Abu Bakar was elected by debate between two main political power, Anshar Tribe and Quraish tribe, there was debate and voting. You can read the process in prophet Muhammad history made by famous and respected Egyptian historian, Muhammad Haikal.

Verse in Quran talking about democracy

View attachment 861959

This is incorrect.

Selection by the previous caliph is not democracy. The selection by ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd is also not democracy. The ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd are composed of ulama, influential and powerful people or the elites of the society. The method of choosing a caliph by the ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd is the equivalent of Plutocracy.

How Caliph is chosen.

How the caliph of the Muslims is appointed - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

Who are the ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd?

Who are Ahlu al-Hall wal-‘Aqd and what are their qualifications - Islam web - English

Who are Ahlu al-Hall wal-‘Aqd and what are their qualifications I have read in the book of Jamharat Ansab Al-‘Arab by Ibn Hazm Al-‘Andalusi may Allah ..

www.islamweb.net

 

[Indos]

This is incorrect.

Selection by the previous caliph is not democracy. The selection by ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd is also not democracy. The ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd are composed of ulama, influential and powerful people or the elites of the society. The method of choosing a caliph by the ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd is the equivalent of Plutocracy.

How Caliph is chosen.

How the caliph of the Muslims is appointed - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

Who are the ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd?

Who are Ahlu al-Hall wal-‘Aqd and what are their qualifications - Islam web - English

Who are Ahlu al-Hall wal-‘Aqd and what are their qualifications I have read in the book of Jamharat Ansab Al-‘Arab by Ibn Hazm Al-‘Andalusi may Allah ..

www.islamweb.net

Democracy is not only conducted in single method. Here we have Parliamentary system and Presidential system as well

See the substance, and consultation which is a definition stated in Quran can be implemented in different form, depending on the situation (modern society and older civilization can be vary in implementing it)

Dont be rigid in interpretating Quran. If older Ulama has their opinion, it doesnt mean what they stated is true. Muslim should have open mind and the interpretation can be even better as Muslim civilization getting more advance in the way the thinking and education.

Abu Bakr selection is closer to parliamentary system and the prominent people within the Quraish and Anshar tribe can be regarded as parliament members in Today term

Anshar tribe and Quraish tribe is the main political power of Madinah state, the same like main political party in Today politics.

Read Muhammad Biography written by famous and respected Egyptian Historian, Muhammad Haikal, there were debate and voting. The voting done in Madinah and it was showing people do regard debate as something important to select leader, this is why Anshar tribe who come from Madinah lost from Quraish tribe who is lot smaller in population in Madinah since they are Muhajirin from Mecca. There was voting.

And how do you define Ulama ? Ulama is knowleadgeable people based on the real meaning

 

[Indos]

Ulama is basically chosen by God, not people if we read the Quran. We dont know who the real Ulama is, this is why it is not people who chose who the real Ulama is.

 

[Bengal71]

Democracy is not only conducted in single method. Here we have Parliamentary system and Presidential system as well

See the substance, and consultation which is a definition stated in Quran can be implemented in different form, depending on the situation (modern society and older civilization can be vary in implementing it)

Dont be rigid in interpretating Quran. If older Ulama has their opinion, it doesnt mean what they stated is true. Muslim should have open mind and the interpretation can be even better as Muslim civilization getting more advance in the way the thinking and education.

Abu Bakr selection is closer to parliamentary system and the prominent people within the Quraish and Anshar tribe can be regarded as parliament members in Today term

Read Muhammad Biography written by famous and respected Egyptian Historian, Muhammad Haikal, there were debate and voting. The voting done in Madinah and it was showing people do regard debate as something important to select leader, this is why Anshar tribe who come from Madinah lost from Quraish tribe who is lot smaller in population in Madinah since they are Muhajirin from Mecca. There was voting.

And how do you define Ulama ? Ulama is knowleadgeable people based on the real meaning

The 'democracy' you are talking about is plutocracy. That's not the representative democracy. The USA has turned into a plutocracy, the government is largely chosen by the corporate, elites and some interest groups. The ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd in the Islamic case will perform the role of the corporate, elites and interest groups exactly the same way.

 

[Indos]

The 'democracy' you are talking about is plutocracy. That's not the representative democracy. The USA has turned into a plutocracy, the government is largely chosen by the corporate, elites and some interest groups. The ahl al-hall wa’l-‘aqd in the Islamic case will perform the role of the corporate, elites and interest groups exactly the same way.

Lol, we are talking democracy as term, not talking about a specific US democracy. Many nations implement democracy, you also live in democratic nation in Australia

 

[Bengal71]

Lol, we are talking democracy as term, not talking about a specific US democracy. Many nations implement democracy, you also live in democratic nation in Australia

The democracy in Australia is not similar to the 'democracy' you are talking about in Islam. The one in Islam is plutocracy, not democracy.

 

[Indos]

The democracy in Australia is not similar to the 'democracy' you are talking about in Islam. The one in Islam is plutocracy, not democracy.

You do have rigid kind of thinking

Democracy in principle is the same like Consultation defined in Quran talking about how problem should be solved which is to include consultation system, which tell about discussion among society. Quran doesnt talk about who should be the actors during the consultation process, so it shows Quran understand the way consultation system is implemented can be vary.

Madinah state for instant is similar like what happen in ancient Greece during their democracy where one prominent city become the main political actors which is in this regard talking about two main power within the society which are Anshar and Quraish Tribe. These are represent of people, not chosen Ulama in many way. This is why I ask you to read Muhammad biography, there was Anshar leader that wants to be leader competing Abu Bakr and he is political leader, not Ulama in the way you think.

Consultation can be in many form, it is ridiculous to implement Today democracy during 7 century in Arabia, but in principle is the same, this is why the political actors during that period are prominent members in both Quraish and Anshar clan ( tribe ), and prominent members in each clan of course are chosen by people as well in traditional term, don think there will be voting machine like Today LOL