AntiFa: Disecting A Phenomenon

[Nilgiri]

your thoughts on this video guys?

@Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @Gomig-21

@LA se Karachi

@Falcon29

Antifa are losing so badly now (and its getting through to them and their backers), its kind of popcorn moment each time. I saw Sargon troll them so bad and get them to implode (because they run out of "logic" when they arent being violent) too, its too easy....just give them enough rope and they end up hanging themselves with it.

They also were not prepared for the level of alt-right permeation into their echelons to create divisions within them internally. They are so reliant on being united by perpetrating violence to anything right of sheer Marx-Stalin...that they never realised how fragile that makes them to being turned on each other when they are corralled and infiltrated.

 

[Pakistani E]

I don't know, most Antifa people I knew were intellectually very engaged and not like the mindless baboons in these videos, but maybe because I am talking about Anti Fascist groups in the U.K and Europe as compared to the U.S ones where it seems like it's a bit of a hipster thing to be "Antifa", compared to the ones here where most hardcore Antifa were the exact counter parts of their Right wing enemies, i.e. White, straight and mostly from working class to middle-working class backgrounds.

It seems like the Antifa became part of the establishment, while back in those days, Antifa were so rebel that some of them joined Irish Republicans in bombings of mainland U.K.

 

[Nilgiri]

I don't know, most Antifa people I knew were intellectually very engaged and not like the mindless baboons in these videos, but maybe because I am talking about Anti Fascist groups in the U.K and Europe as compared to the U.S ones where it seems like it's a bit of a hipster thing to be "Antifa", compared to the ones here where most hardcore Antifa were the exact counter parts of their Right wing enemies, i.e. White, straight and mostly from working class to middle-working class backgrounds.

It seems like the Antifa became part of the establishment, while back in those days, Antifa were so rebel that some of them joined Irish Republicans in bombings of mainland U.K.

Antifa is a very broad term mostly and varies from area to area. When I use it, I mean those among them ready and willing to a) perpetrate violence b) call for enforcement of rules regarding "free speech" on some rubric they define backed up with same (state) violence (Either a,b or both).

People labelling themselves to be Antifa that do not subscribe to a or b are not truly antifa. Just like there are people that do not label themselves as Antifa but really are by my definition.

Combination of a and b makes one very anti-intellectual because you need to have aversion for violent means (as 1st means of any challenge) and also favour absolute free speech to its most broad interpretation (especially including speech you dont agree with or personally dislike) to have any basis in proper logic-driven intellectualism....because logic needs the maximum latitude to debate, establish, counter-debate and then thrive....period. When you constrain the envelope logic can exist in, by very definition you become anti-logic and anti-intellectual....such people essentially then become prey or predator instead of harnessing that which separates humans from simple prey/predator concept.

 

[Pakistani E]

Antifa is a very broad term mostly and varies from area to area. When I use it, I mean those among them ready and willing to a) perpetrate violence b) call for enforcement of rules regarding "free speech" on some rubric they define backed up with same (state) violence (Either a,b or both).

People labelling themselves to be Antifa that do not subscribe to a or b are not truly antifa. Just like there are people that do not label themselves as Antifa but really are by my definition.

Combination of a and b makes one very anti-intellectual because you need to have aversion for violent means (as 1st means of any challenge) and also favour absolute free speech to its most broad interpretation (especially including speech you dont agree with or personally dislike) to have any basis in proper logic-driven intellectualism....because logic needs the maximum latitude to debate, establish, counter-debate and then thrive....period. When you constrain the envelope logic can exist in, by very definition you become anti-logic and anti-intellectual....such people essentially then become prey or predator instead of harnessing that which separates humans from simple prey/predator concept.

I am referring to hard left folks, I don't know if you are aware of the groups who were prolific here in the U.K but many were expelled from the Labour party for organizing fights with Racist nationalists. But there was a clear structure in place to organise this, and a large number of times, several individuals from both sides would sit down for drinks and discuss these matters over a pint or two. I really can't comment on the U.S Antifascist groups, but I am talking about the people who were prominent here in the U.K in the 90s especially.

Debate and discussion was held along side organised squadism, but an intellectual debate could only happen in very controlled situations, when the NF or BNP were marching down in their hundreds attacking random non White, there was little that could be discussed in those situations.

I know people who were Leftist/Anarchists who became Right wing and vice versa. Again, I am just talking about my personal experience so I can't speak about the U.S or other areas. I am a former Marxist myself and one of my closest friends in University was a BNP supporter and we never once came to blows even with our history.

 

[El Sidd]

Americans need jobs not wars

 

[Pakistani E]

@Nilgiri I know where you stand on all this but this is the type of things I was referring to in my reply to you.

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/09/fo...-a-skinhead-and-why-hes-fighting-fascism-now/

 

[Nilgiri]

I am referring to hard left folks, I don't know if you are aware of the groups who were prolific here in the U.K but many were expelled from the Labour party for organizing fights with Racist nationalists. But there was a clear structure in place to organise this, and a large number of times, several individuals from both sides would sit down for drinks and discuss these matters over a pint or two. I really can't comment on the U.S Antifascist groups, but I am talking about the people who were prominent here in the U.K in the 90s especially.

Debate and discussion was held along side organised squadism, but an intellectual debate could only happen in very controlled situations, when the NF or BNP were marching down in their hundreds attacking random non White, there was little that could be discussed in those situations.

I know people who were Leftist/Anarchists who became Right wing and vice versa. Again, I am just talking about my personal experience so I can't speak about the U.S or other areas. I am a former Marxist myself and one of my closest friends in University was a BNP supporter and we never once came to blows even with our history.

I know a number of number of hard left/far left folks some of whom I have debated for more than a decade now and we still dont agree on pretty much anything.....but they are absolutely horrified and saddened at this emergence of ANTIFA ( just like I am about any far right groups that use same methods) hijacking their cause....because like me they completely denounce violence and suppression as any means of promoting any argument.

Seeing how you describe it, yes you would probably get along with these folk (a few I even call good friends heh) and probably with me as well. I like a good hearty debate and dicussion...many of these folk have given me the biggest run for my money on many issues and are the true staunch believers in their cause (without calling for any violence to achieve it) and I will always respect that....and remember that....and defend that should it come to that.

It is quote ironic that humans only largely perceive and push and consolidate under polarised circumstances when this is what has the highest chance to hurt the human species long term or even make it extinct. We always seem to have this inherent attitude that we need to destroy the other side to better ourselves in some zero-sum game, instead of letting all sides just build peacefully and settle issues logically and peacefully. Why is this species its own worst enemy....in us lies so much potential yet we throw it all away for next to nothing. This nature is the single biggest thing we seem to cannot rid ourselves of, even more unifying than the red blood we all shed....but maybe just like the blood it is what makes us and defines us as essentially human to begin with. The deepest truths may be the most scariest too. It is said in a number of psychology studies that having simply as low as 10% of a population devoted fanatically to some cause is enough to rein in/control/bring in the remaining 90%...I think there lies the fundamental problem if populations are hardwired to be like this....because the fanaticism perturbations are always going to be lurking there waiting for the sparks and accelerants and their "visionaries" (i.e people that can coalesce and control that 10% demonstrably so rest fall into line).

 

[Zibago]

Is Pakistani defence really following for the lies of the racist and Islamophobic Alt Right? Yeah I can see Indian Hindu nationalists siding with the Alt Right/Trump because of their shared Islamophobia, but Pakistanis?

Antifa has been around forever, since the times of Mussolini. They've beaten the fascists forces in England. Anyone who knows the history of fascism in England knows their biggest targets are Indians/Pakistanis. So I find it bizarre that defence.pk are actually posting alt-right propaganda against antifa...

Not defence.pk just some brown sahabs

 

[Desert Fox]

Lol @Nilgiri @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @vostok @ptldM3 @ValerioAurelius

I don't know, most Antifa people I knew were intellectually very engaged and not like the mindless baboons in these videos, but maybe because I am talking about Anti Fascist groups in the U.K and Europe as compared to the U.S ones where it seems like it's a bit of a hipster thing to be "Antifa", compared to the ones here where most hardcore Antifa were the exact counter parts of their Right wing enemies, i.e. White, straight and mostly from working class to middle-working class backgrounds.

It seems like the Antifa became part of the establishment, while back in those days, Antifa were so rebel that some of them joined Irish Republicans in bombings of mainland U.K.

AntiFa, like all major Leftist organizations, is heavily funded by mostly Jewish Zionist financiers/Capitalists, which is the funny thing because they claim to be standing up for the working class but most of their members are White, children of well-to-do Jews or White upper middle class parents. Which is why they have all this time to organize.

Real working class people dont care about petty issues like supporting the right of two men to shag each other in the butt or the right of some guy to chop his penis off and get breast implants. Workers don't care about this kinda of stuff, they care about work. Obviously, these AntiFa aren't workers.

Like all leftist movements in history, AntiFa is a pro-Zionist organization. Which is why they never attack pro-Israel rallies.

​

 

[Gomig-21]

AntiFa, like all major Leftist organizations, is heavily funded by mostly Jewish Zionist financiers/Capitalists, which is the funny thing because they claim to be standing up for the working class but most of their members are White, children of well-to-do Jews or White upper middle class parents. Which is why they have all this time to organize.

lol, my friend Maya is the prototypical person you just described. Her and her mom and sister are always trying to get me to join them on some of these crazy protests that usually turn violent like that and I just tell them "are you crazy?" and laugh. lol. We are friends but when it comes to this kinda thing, I draw a very clear line LOL.

I'm gonna show her this post and get her all riled up looool!

Real working class people dont care about petty issues like supporting the right of two men to shag each other in the butt or the right of some guy to chop his penis off and get breast implants. Workers don't care about this kinda of stuff, they care about work. Obviously, these AntiFa aren't workers.

Exactly.

 

[Desert Fox]

lol, my friend Maya is the prototypical person you just described. Her and her mom and sister are always trying to get me to join them on some of these crazy protests that usually turn violent like that and I just tell them "are you crazy?" and laugh. lol. We are friends but when it comes to this kinda thing, I draw a very clear line LOL.

I'm gonna show her this post and get her all riled up looool!

Lol haha. Be careful, I'm not sure they'll take to this kindly seeing that they can't tolerate opposing views. But since she's your good friend then hopefully nothing will happen. In any case my prayers are with you.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

LOL! I'm not going near abortion topics because both sides are just as nutty as the other.
Hmmm...antiFA Israeli connection...have to look into it. You'd think they’d be calling Israelis fascists.

 

[Gomig-21]

Lol haha. Be careful, I'm not sure they'll take to this kindly seeing that they can't tolerate opposing views. But since she's your good friend then hopefully nothing will happen.

Yeah, no I'm always ragging on them big time. It never gets serious. They are a pair of Jewish princesses, too, from a very wealthy family which pretty much fits the mold lol!

In any case my prayers are with you.

 

[Pakistani E]

AntiFa, like all major Leftist organizations, is heavily funded by mostly Jewish Zionist financiers/Capitalists, which is the funny thing because they claim to be standing up for the working class but most of their members are White, children of well-to-do Jews or White upper middle class parents. Which is why they have all this time to organize.

Again, I am talking about my experience from Antifa in the U.K several years back. Most of the ones that I knew consisted of a small core group who came from working class backgrounds, but I agree with you if you are referring to recent phenomenon, where the majority tend to be well to do backgrounds. I can't speak for today as I have not been part of any such thing in recent years, nor would I like to be as they seem to be heavily anti free speech themselves.

Real working class people dont care about petty issues like supporting the right of two men to shag each other in the butt or the right of some guy to chop his penis off and get breast implants. Workers don't care about this kinda of stuff, they care about work. Obviously, these AntiFa aren't workers.

Agreed, but again, I am not going to defend the likes you are mentioning. Most of the Antifa guys I knew were not actually all "leftist" per se but came from diverse political backgrounds.

Like all leftist movements in history, AntiFa is a pro-Zionist organization. Which is why they never attack pro-Israel rallies.

Have to disagree here though, I didn't know a single Anti-fascist who was Pro Israel. Most of them were/are very much pro Palestinian, including some hardcore ones who still support Fatah/PLO due to their supposed leftist political background. Zionism was never that big a thing where I grew up. Mostly National Front/BNP shyteheads. Didn't come across Zionists until I went to Uni. I can't speak for everyone in Antifa movement but in my experience, they have never ever been Pro Zionist, sure they would condemn antisemitism like they condemned Islamophobia and racism, but to speak openly in support of Israel was a sure way of getting a one way ticket out.

Maybe the modern day Antifa is something quite different or it depends on who constitutes antifa membership in a given region/area.

 

[Desert Fox]

Again, I am talking about my experience from Antifa in the U.K several years back. Most of the ones that I knew consisted of a small core group who came from working class backgrounds, but I agree with you if you are referring to recent phenomenon, where the majority tend to be well to do backgrounds. I can't speak for today as I have not been part of any such thing in recent years, nor would I like to be as they seem to be heavily anti free speech themselves.

It could be true that at one point AntiFa did champion working class struggles. How long ago was it when you had your experience with AntiFa?

My personal experience with AntiFa has been with the ones in the states, predominantly in NYC, though judging from footage of AntiFa from other regions of the world they all seem to replicate the same behavior. Perhaps this is due to ease of travel of information and thus standardization of tactics? And I was involved in left-wing movements on my college campus so I did get to know these groups up-close and personal (which largely contributed to my current view of them)

Agreed, but again, I am not going to defend the likes you are mentioning. Most of the Antifa guys I knew were not actually all "leftist" per se but came from diverse political backgrounds.

Interesting. That's actually new to me. Usually AntiFa and similar groups consider all non-leftists to be "Fascists" so I personally can't see how they could be from political backgrounds other than leftist ones.

By all non-leftists this would include Libertarians/anarcho-capitalists, Christian anti-abortion groups or pro-life organizations, anti-homosexual organizations, pro-marriage, etc...

Have to disagree here though, I didn't know a single Anti-fascist who was Pro Israel. Most of them were/are very much pro Palestinian, including some hardcore ones who still support Fatah/PLO due to their supposed leftist political background. Zionism was never that big a thing where I grew up. Mostly National Front/BNP shyteheads. Didn't come across Zionists until I went to Uni. I can't speak for everyone in Antifa movement but in my experience, they have never ever been Pro Zionist, sure they would condemn antisemitism like they condemned Islamophobia and racism, but to speak openly in support of Israel was a sure way of getting a one way ticket out.

Maybe the modern day Antifa is something quite different or it depends on who constitutes antifa membership in a given region/area.

I'm not sure how long ago it was when you had experience with AntiFa but Zionism is pretty big in America and I'm sure it's the same in Britain, pretty much in every Western country and they (Zionists) have been holding rallies and meetings in America for a very long time but yet it is only recently within the last year that AntiFa has appeared in America to fight "Fascism" by attacking rallies other than Zionist rallies?

Now a explosion in Leftist/AntiFa groups can only be possible if there are funds, but where are the funds coming from? Keep reading.

A leftist organization held a Feminist rally where initially Zionist/Israeli symbols were forbidden:

“SlutWalk Chicago does not support the ‘Zioness progressives’ planning on coming to the walk Saturday. We at SlutWalk Chicago stand with Jewish people, just as we stand for Palestinian human rights. Those two ideologies can exist in the same realm, and taking a stance against anti-Semitism is not an affirmation of support for the state of Israel and its occupation of Palestine,” the group wrote on its Facebook page.

https://www.jta.org/2017/08/13/news...zioness-activists-shunned-at-slutwalk-chicago


But I guess someone threatened to cut their funding and made them retract their previous statement:

Following a meeting meant to solidify the message of SlutWalk Chicago, an organizer, Red, told Haaretz that the event is welcoming to everyone, including those carrying Jewish or Zionist symbols, and added that the collective needs to make amends to the Jewish community for its previous statements.

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pr...-all-we-have-some-apologizing-to-do-1.5436795

One has to wonder how did they go from being on one end of the opposing spectrum (Zionism now allowed) to the other (nevermind, it's allowed) after having acknowledged the fact that Israel occupies Palestine?

Clearly money talks and these groups, believe it or not, mostly get their funding from pro-Zionist financiers. They need the money.