What's new

Another MNA disqualified over fake degree

in my opinion, government should pass a law for these idiots. I mean there is not any kind of punishment or penatly for these corrupt politicians who contested in elections with fake degree. Government/Court should send them behind bars for 6 months or something like that and ineligibl to stand in elections for the next 2 terms or a Fine!

or anything..... but not spare them like that

Forgery to pass a requirement is a civil case not a criminal case.
 
.
Forgery to pass a requirement is a civil case not a criminal case.

i ain't asking them to hang him or put him behind bars for the whole life. But they should not be spared like that. If driving a car without licence is an offence.... then why can't this be considered as an offence? There should be some kind of punishment to it. I was really annoyed to see Jamshed Dasti first resigned for fake degree and then becoming MNA again :angry:

My opinion only
 
.
Fake degrees
By Rasul Bakhsh Rais

June 28, 2010

The writer is professor of political science at LUMS (rasul.rais@tribune.com.pk)

It is a question of both ethics and law when hundreds of legislators of national and provincial assemblies produce fake certificates to establish their eligibility for electoral offices. When such a large number of cheaters (what else is one to call those who wilfully violated an election law) occupy seats in our federal and provincial assemblies, people within the country and outside may rightly question the standard of our society and the quality of our ‘democratic’ leadership.

There cannot be any excuse for lying, deceiving the public or the state or violating a law, no matter how bad that law may be. Civility of a person and society is judged by respect for law and rule of law. Unfortunately, the rule of law situation in Pakistan has continuously deteriorated. So have norms of integrity and honesty on individual and collective levels. The root cause of our constitutional and moral decline is the infamous ‘law of necessity’ that our superior court under the thumb of military rulers established.

The legislators with fake degrees have offered the same excuse; political necessity forced them to violate the law because they would not leave the political arena uncontested to the rivals. In democratic societies, when law and political ambition clash, the ambition is easily defeated because no one can claim or even attempt to be above the law. This is when you have strong institutions and equally strong tradition of rule of law.

Our case is different. We are still struggling to establish rule of law. It is in this spirit that the Supreme Court has ordered the Election Commission to take action against all MPs with fake degrees. If the EC was autonomous and independent of ruling groups in the executive, action would have been taken without the intervention of the courts. And in the first place they should have been checked properly before the election.

Those who have ruled in violation of the law and the constitution or would do it now or in the future would have a fundamental interest in crippling the judiciary or any other institution that would check them or hold them accountable. It is therefore understandable why the fake degree holders and their political backers in high positions may not feel good about the decision of the Supreme Court.

However, I am in agreement with the fake degree holders that requiring a specific level of education for being in the contest for political offices is undemocratic.
It is equally true that Pervez Musharraf enacted this law with a political motive to keep certain known politicians out of the assemblies.

The case in point is not as much about a bad law written under bad motives, but of personal integrity of holders of public office, i.e. our elected leaders. We would like to hold our legislators in high esteem for earning the public’s trust and confidence. But they themselves must stand taller on issues of honesty and law than rest of the crowd. Members of parliament are supposed to have a higher ethical and moral bar than ordinary mortals, and in progressive societies they set standards of integrity and lead society not by empty rhetoric but their personal example and values of achievement, integrity and commitment to public service. I don’t think all is bad in the legislatures. Not all the legislators can be placed in the same category as the ‘cheaters’. It would be insane and immoral to judge every member of the legislatures through the conduct of those who have acted unethically and without sufficient care for the reputation of the legislative assemblies.

This furore serves to highlight the wrong of fake degree holding MPs, but should not overshadow the presence of other members who have remained truthful and upheld their honour and positions, or parliament itself. Nor should we start condemning democracy or electoral behaviour of ordinary folks on this count.

Published in The Express Tribune, June 28th,
 
.
i ain't asking them to hang him or put him behind bars for the whole life. But they should not be spared like that. If driving a car without licence is an offence.... then why can't this be considered as an offence? There should be some kind of punishment to it. I was really annoyed to see Jamshed Dasti first resigned for fake degree and then becoming MNA again :angry:

My opinion only

Dasti's degree was not "proven" as "fake". Rather he "resigned honourably". There's a legal difference when everybody knows that you have a fake degree (with failure to answer simple questions in court) and when it is "proven fake" through due process. Dasti got away with it as he resigned before admissible "proof" could be presented.

As for the general lot, the SC has said that "civil punishment" will be decided after the HEC and ECP verify the degrees. When the verification is complete, we can look forward to possible punishments.
 
.
18th amendment ... cowards now removed complusory graduation
 
.
Dasti's degree was not "proven" as "fake". Rather he "resigned honourably". There's a legal difference when everybody knows that you have a fake degree (with failure to answer simple questions in court) and when it is "proven fake" through due process. Dasti got away with it as he resigned before admissible "proof" could be presented.
May be we are going off-topic so my last post here... his degree was proved fake before he resigned. He resigned after his degree scandal was exposed and humiliated in the court. Watch this video espacially after 1:46. Let me write it briefly
Jamshed Dasti jinhon ne kaha thaa ke unhon ne Islamiyat main M.A. ki degree hasil ki hai. Supreme court of Pakistan main aaj un se bunyadi sawalat poochay gaye. Supreme Court ne Jamshed Ahmed Dasti se poocha ke Qur'an Shareef ke pehle 15 paaron ke naam bataye lakin unke pas iska koi jawab nahi thaa. Phir supreme court ne pocha ke Qur'an Shareef ke pehle 5 paaron ka naam bataiye... tu unke pas iska jawab bhi nahi thaa

Phir Supreme court ne poocha ke acha Qur'an ke pehli surat bata di jiye
Jamshed Dasti: Alhamd Shareef :lol:

supreme Court: Qur'an ki dosri surat konsi hai
Jamshed Dasti: Surah Aal-e-Imran :rofl:

Supreme Court: Aap ne Qur'an ki konsi Tafseer perhi hai
Jamshed Dasti: Maine Hazrat Musa A.S. ki tafseer parhi hai :rofl:

and continue watching........ its funny

 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
I told you there's a difference between "legal proof" and "utter humiliation" which was a proof of the degree being fake. The people's court is different from a court of law. The HEC did not submit a statement to the SC stating that his degree was fake. Everybody knew it was fake, and he was humiliated in the court, but no official proof was presented. He resigned before the proof could have been obtained from the HEC by the SC.

99.999999999% of Pakistanis do not understand how the legal system worlds, and ought to work. They still believe in tribal justice and panchaits. The common law system has evolved so as to minimize punishing people for a crime they did not commit. In the SC, Dasti was humiliated but no "official statement" was provided as proof.

I was trying to clarify the legal position but perhaps like the 99.9999999999% you were unable to understand the legal position.

Newspapers stating his degree to be fake, being unable to state obvious facts you should know based on your degree and resigning are different from being convicted under civil law. Dasti resigned b/c everybody knew that his degree was fake. This does not mean that his degree was legally proven to be fake. There's a big, big difference.

And I'm a gazillion percent sure that a couple of idiots unable to grasp what the law means will now accuse me of supporting Dasti somehow.
 
.
I told you there's a difference between "legal proof" and "utter humiliation" which was a proof of the degree being fake. The people's court is different from a court of law. The HEC did not submit a statement to the SC stating that his degree was fake. Everybody knew it was fake, and he was humiliated in the court, but no official proof was presented. He resigned before the proof could have been obtained from the HEC by the SC.

99.999999999% of Pakistanis do not understand how the legal system worlds, and ought to work. They still believe in tribal justice and panchaits. The common law system has evolved so as to minimize punishing people for a crime they did not commit. In the SC, Dasti was humiliated but no "official statement" was provided as proof.

I was trying to clarify the legal position but perhaps like the 99.9999999999% you were unable to understand the legal position.

Newspapers stating his degree to be fake, being unable to state obvious facts you should know based on your degree and resigning are different from being convicted under civil law. Dasti resigned b/c everybody knew that his degree was fake. This does not mean that his degree was legally proven to be fake. There's a big, big difference.

i do understand what you are saying sparklingway. I have worked for one year as an assistant of my uncle in his law firm. The point i was trying to make is that, Jamshed although resigned before his degree was officially disqualified but the reason of his resignation was same. He already knew the consquences of his trial in the court where he failed to answer even simple/basic questions and had to suffer from immense humiliation. His answer of the last question was............. I resign :lol:

Supreme Court: What is 4 times 2?
Jamshed Dasti: gave incorrect answer

and then said, He resigns as a Member of the National Assembly.

I did not argue on whether his degree was valid, invalid, proven or not proven blah blah. The point i made before this post was such peoples should not be spared like that. There should be some kind of punishment. I don't care even if they charge 100,000 rupees and forgive him. But it should not be like what happened with Mr Dasti after resignation. The rulers of our country are weakening its law themself by violating and using it for their own benefit

It is not acceptable to me

Bye
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom