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Another Breakthrough by Pakistan's Defence Sector

Windjammer

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Pakistan's NRTC is certainly making it's impact on the high end of the defence sector technology. Amongst other notable achievements, it has developed anti drone equipment which will soon to be added in the military arsenal. Anti-drone tool was on display at IDEAS 2018.


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Pakistan's NRTC is certainly making it's impact on the high end of the defence sector technology. Amongst other notable achievements, it has developed anti drone equipment which will soon to be added in the military arsenal. Anti-drone tool was on display at IDEAS 2018.


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What type of system it is,a laser based system,an EW system,an EMP cannon,a railgun,a gattling gun or something else?
 
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Hmm anti drone. My guess it hacks drones or jams their remote input

imitates GPS signals to confuse sensors.

Americans can counter that; however countering that all the time is difficult.

What type of system it is,a laser based system,an EW system,an EMP cannon,a railgun,a gattling gun or something else?

The power of all electromagnetic radiation varies inversely to the SQUARE of the distance traveled.
 
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imitates GPS signals to confuse sensors.

Americans can counter that; however countering that all the time is difficult.



The power of all electromagnetic radiation varies inversely to the SQUARE of the distance traveled.

Can the Indians counter it. They also have drones Pakistan needs to counter. Also Pakistan needs to a counter to this counter for its own drones. Especially the larger ones that are meant to fly over enemy air space or over the ocean like the Anka-S.
 
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Can the Indians counter it. They also have drones Pakistan needs to counter. Also Pakistan needs to a counter to this counter for its own drones. Especially the larger ones that are meant to fly over enemy air space or over the ocean like the Anka-S.

No, they can't counter much. We can jam the GPS signal. that's what the electronic warfare equipment is about. Pakistan air force has such systems. GPS jammer are easily available. They just would not use it against US.

Instead of jamming GPS, they could have gradually increased GPS signal in such way to emulate GPS (i.e. as if it was coming due to multi-path scattering say due to mountains). Then they could have increased its strength so that "false GPS" now look real satellite transmitted GPS while actual GPS looks like say an example its coming from something like multi-path scattering that is noise (Its relatively low in power compared to now the fake one). That would be hard to defend against as GPS signal strength varies widely depending on lot of factors. So we could feed false GPS.

When we feed a "false GPS" signal (replacing the real GPS), we use "small drift to gradually lead the enemy off course or make them land in our own country (like Iranians did). So US would look for drift by using say inertial (e.g.laser rate gyro) among other sensors to estimate vehicle state (i.e. position velocity) etc. Then use these state estimates to find out vehicle's position and then correlate them with GPS signal received. If the position estimates are close in range, then both GPS and state estimates closely agree and received GPS is probably true.

But these estimates are probabilistic rather then exact. Hence if we feed the position drift that is within small statistically range, within an hour or two we can literally high jack the vehicle if we also jam the ground or satellite command signals that are coming from UAV control center (i.e. from pilots). That can be done using specifically developed Jammers. They are more effective when are in several or 10's of kilometer's range unless jammer's output power is huge or signal waveform is so cleverly design based on observation of the command signal, that it can jam the command signal coming from uav control center really well (i.e. from pilots on the ground). This would require dedicated hardware.

This news is about jamming such "command signals being used to control the vehicle remotely". that is cutting the pilot off all together. Then vehicle will probably crash or may be it is programmed to land in such cases. Pakistan should NOT have much trouble using GPS to hijack UAVs. The point is it worth the effort to experiment the proper drift signal which ememy's current state-estimation methodology cannot detect or to collect enough GPS clutter data in a given region so as to match Fake GPS rise pattern (rise from, fake GPS being zero to more then the actual GPS) in such a way that eventually GPS detection system can be fooled into seeing fake as real and real as fake. Its all about trial and error and perfecting it. that actually requires not just observing GPS pattern in regions of interest but also Learning about enemy UAVs (e.g. guessing their signal estimation accuracy). So trial and error to find out about them and then using what has worked. That means a dedicated team, receivers of various kinds, tracking enemy drones and analyzing the command patterns, to make sure things will work in actual war.

Once again this news is about, just jam the whole thing (i.e. no command signal reaching the UAV noting GPS jamming is easier) and let the uav crash.No need to bother to make it land. In the absence of command signals UAVs are generally programmed to crash since other wise in principles they can then be fed fake emulated signals that one can generate, provided one had the time to observe the original command signals and resulting behavior of the aircraft for long enough duration (and using various inference approaches such as using machine learning algorithms). Overtime this can lead to cyber hacking of the aircraft. SO usually UAVs are programmed to crash if command signals do not reach them for a certain time period.

Note machine learning algorithms are widely used in Pakistan (i.e. by I.T. Start ups, game developers etc.) especially by our agencies including probably for analyzing data obtained from interception of the global communications.

yes Pakistan intercepts undersea submarine cables tapping into global communications much like NSA. ISI initially was caught trying to buy openly commercial hardware for undersea submarine taping instead of secretly buying but now they are smarter (google it). Now its all belongs to Pakistan, the sixth country on the planet to do, the other 5 do it under the leadership of US, i.e. US, UK, australia etc. and not alone. Pakistan does it alone. ISI is capable enough to do it alone.
 
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GPS jamming/spoofing tools are not something new.

Libya had invested a great deal in these technologies:

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4602674.stm
[2] https://www.space.com/3666-libya-pinpointed-source-months-long-satellite-jamming-2006.html

However, NATO humiliated Libya in the war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

FYI: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/423363/how-cruise-missiles-would-beat-gps-jammers-in-libya/

Their is no guarantee that these tools will deliver against threats which are jam-resistant to large extent.
 
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GPS jamming/spoofing tools are not something new.

Libya had invested a great deal in these technologies:

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4602674.stm
[2] https://www.space.com/3666-libya-pinpointed-source-months-long-satellite-jamming-2006.html

However, NATO humiliated Libya in the war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

FYI: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/423363/how-cruise-missiles-would-beat-gps-jammers-in-libya/

Their is no guarantee that these tools will deliver against threats which are jam-resistant to large extent.
You need to hit their communications, radar etc. signals....
 
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Equipment size suggests its to counter small commercial drones that /indians use on the border or maybe terrorists may use for survelience before launching an attack. Most probably a high powered radio jammer in 900 MHz to 2.4 Ghz range to disrupt remote control communication between the drone and controller.


What type of system it is,a laser based system,an EW system,an EMP cannon,a railgun,a gattling gun or something else?
 
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In order to defeat gps jamming drone or aircraft not use and keep on gps during operations continuously but it repeatedly on and off gps transmission after intervals to fool enemy radar and it is very difficult to read gps when drone also transmit false gps signals to fool enemy radar in area
 
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Quite likely India won't use GPS at all. lol
They will either use Gagan, their own GPS !
 
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Already mentioned that GPS jamming is easier.

However, I was not describing GPS jamming in a traditional sense. First note: there is no such thing as "jamming resistance GPS". NO matter what an article says as such, with current GPS such technology is impossible.

The article mentioned says exactly what i have stated in a more precise technical terms
. The article on technologyreview.com says in a summary you estimate your positions using "TERCOM and combined with another, even older method of navigation known as an intertial navigation system" and in the absence of GPS just use that to go wherever you want to go. Since GPS is jammed. that is forget about GPS. Just use onboard sensors. That's not jamming resistance GPS that's not using GPS at all.

Hence article title is misleading.

I was saying it in more general GPS spoofing scenario (which includes the special case above that is just jamming) that is you can check your position estimate say using on board sensors and then check it with GPS (real or false) and if position estimate from onboard sensor is too different than the GPS position data, then GPS is false (assuming on board sensors are accurate always (low or no drift)). In that case forget the GPS since it is probably been replaced with false flag GPS signal. In that case, you naturally use ONLY the on board sensors since there is nothing else you can do. the last sentence (in bold letters) was left out from my post since it was obvious.

Also inertial navigation technology is NOT old. Concept is old. Modern inertial navigation systems use modern hardware (i.e. laser based, accelerators etc.) and are getting more accurate. TERCOM is used in addition to inertial navigation. Its yet another sensor (image based as in Babur missile).

Unless you launch some new satellites that have special build in feature that may for a while resist current GPS jammer, YOU CANNOT HAVE JAMMING RESISTANCE GPS. there is no such thing.

In Libya nato simply used onboard sensors. THEY did not use GPS at all. That not jamming resistance GPS that "GPS" avoiding all together.

In addition, I was also describing far more general (i.e. using intelligent profile for GPS spoofing) and statistically tailored drift to fool GPS spoofing detection systems in case someone ever gets that installed. Don't think anyone has yet. It was just a hypothetical technical solutions to a hypothetical problems.

These additional things are not on the web. NOR I got the first one from the any web. They came from my engineering knowledge, and were an idea, a technical way to defeat spoofing detection algorithms if they ever get installed by say US or india. A kind of future solution to a problem that was being asked.

Coming back to the post, What I stated was technically correct. Its not my opinion. Its physics.

A GPS signal is not "interactively adaptive" so it cannot be made "jamming resistant".

Unless someone launches those satellites that have such capabilities and mass market the receivers (at least to the military) ONLY then those satellites may adapt the signals to avoid jamming or have spatio-temporal signaling profile that is itself hard to jam in the first place. WE can always find a way jam even such kind. Otherwise current GPS can be easily jammed. I avoided the term "spoof" since I thought I would need to explain that plus "false" made more sense that since NOT everyone is comfortable with terminologies.

I hopefully finish a post on stealth aircraft and Pakistan capability in this regards (but I might not do it as I don't have time). But don't worry these are my last two weeks on this forum anyway. I noticed a lot of people have this need to cut others to size, even when others are not trying to be any higher size. They just happened to have in depth technical knowledge about certain fields, which can never be cut down to anything since it is genuine mastery of those fields. it is always there.

People even try to cut fellow muslim countries down to size. A really strange behavior. For example Turkey achieves success in a certain engineering area. Instead of feeling proud of their achievement, they are our Muslim brothers and sisters after all, people start posting in rapid succession "Chinese aircraft" in replies. That's really strange. It is jealousy. There is no other name for it.

Though this Jealousy can be seen in a strangely positive way for its reflects nothing more than sibling rivalry even when its gets ugly sometimes.

After all, if someone mentions a technological achievement of Spain or Sweden, no one feels any deep emotions in Pakistan. They are not brothers like Turkey hence no sibling rivalry.

Still I would rather be proud of Turkey than Jealous of my own brothers and sisters.

I just arrived from the airport. I had no intention of even replying. Its just that there is scientist part of me that wants to convey correct information.

I will not reply to this post, however, before I leave in two weeks, I will reply to that Denel guy since he was completely wrong, plus I don' like people who stereotype entire countries specially my own muslim ones. HE did not understand my post at all since it required understanding of things such as a particular kind of cyber-physical system based on distributed hybrid dynamical systems theory among others (which is a research level topic and not something you learn in a course). Yet his post began with sarcastic remarks which was uncalled for. He was strangely dismissive of something he never even understood. It was an idea about near future feasibility of something.

The point is: Instead of sarcasm, or attacks, it is much better to stick to the topic and be honest about it (accepting where someone does or does not know something). or just ignore the whole thing. The point is please feel free to press ignore button and move on. I have no intention of getting attacked today. I already had a really tough day. tomorrow I will introduce myself with what ever qualifications I have so that everyone knows.

I mean absolutely NO disrespect. Do realize that even Pakistanis can be highly qualified ( I will update my profile even though it is my last week to 10 days here) and also this is not a competition. So I won't write back. Everyone is welcome to believe what ever they think is true. Its does not matter at all. I mean not that we are all designing something real world here. Its empty talk.
 
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. ISI initially was caught trying to buy openly commercial hardware for undersea submarine taping instead of secretly buying but now they are smarter (google it). Now its all belongs to Pakistan, the sixth country on the planet to do, the other 5 do it under the leadership of US, i.e. US, UK, australia etc. and not alone. Pakistan does it alone. ISI is capable enough to do it alone.
India is taping submarine cables for nearly ten years now.
Our NTRO has an entire division dedicated to that.
 
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Indians kindly note: I press ignore as soon as I see "indian flag". Its peaceful that way for all of us.
 
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