An Iran-Pakistan alliance?

[haviZsultan]

I typed this post in terms of an alternative foreign policy for Pakistan. Do tell me what you think Iranian brothers. I wish as hell Turks, Iranians, Arabs and everyone else fought less though. Pakistan has good relations with every Muslim nation but this infighting has put me off a little. Do explain this point.

Anyway this is the post. Or should I say half the post:

The solution: The first thing we must do is reduce our dependence on the US. This is phase 1. 1) Initially we can start by trying to find new markets for our exports because in the event of us quitting their alliance they may increase tarriffs and create hurdles. We currently export about 18% of our goods to US (15.8 billion in 2012)

2) We have lots of defence contracts and a lot of components still have to be delivered. We have to ensure we make no new deals and initiate no new ventures with the US. Perhaps even wait an year for things we bought to be delivered. This field could suffer. Furthermore we have to begin concentrating on China, Russia and ingenious production. India is working on a 5th generation fighter.

Now we move to phase 2 of the solution. 1) Develop contacts with Iran. Now this might not go down well with a lot of people and even I don't like theocracies/mullahcracies. But I can only agree with their foreign policy. I mean what is a nation supposed to do? Even if they are seeking nukes, Iraq tried to build WMD's, US is in 2 neighboring countries (possibly 3 if Shamsi was used to spy on Iran) and is the only state to have used them and Israel has them as well as neighboring Pakistan. The negative point may be we may become too influenced by the system present there. I favor secularism so I am worried about the rights situation.

2) Offer China military bases in Pakistan in return for favoring us in UN and in all foreign policy matters. For example Iran was sanctioned to the teeth-but it could not have happened had the Chinese vetoed it. That veto has a lot of power. China may be a very important member and we must lean on it for our relationship. It is the bulwark of this idea. I would not have presented it even if China hadn't been an ally.

Optional: 3) I say optional because it will not go down well. Adopt secularism. Western nations sympathize with other secular states but I know the minds of my people still equate secularism with anti-Islamism which isn't true. In any case if it can't be done give people dignity, rights, freedom, justice and stop wrong and injustices whereever we see them. Most importantly deal with terrorism which should become easier after this since TTP will lose its backing since we are no more officially in the WOT.

Phase 3: 1) Become more assertive and defend national interest. This comes with being free of the US yoke. Demand things from the US we should be given. Recompensation for losses in war on terror. Aafia Siddiqui case. Everything. Present in the media how US has misused us. A knowledgable person can destroy the US narrative in moments. We suffered more in terrorism than we received aid so the narrative we are earning something is false and broken but not a single Pakistani challenges it. It is time to stand on our own feet. This should be the last phase.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...ion-pakistanis-against-usa.html#ixzz2JVImyKQC

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Do provide insight Iranian friends. I have always thought highly of Iran because it is the only nation with an independent foreign policy in the region.

I want particularly an explanation of:
1) The mullah issue
2) Thoughts on foreign policy
3) Getting a nuclear weapon
4) Reason and background behind fights of Turks/Arabs and Iranians.
5) How do you see an alliance between Pakistan and Iran and the relationship (main-do answer this)

 

[Yazp]

I typed this post in terms of an alternative foreign policy for Pakistan. Do tell me what you think Iranian brothers. I wish as hell Turks, Iranians, Arabs and everyone else fought less though. Pakistan has good relations with every Muslim nation but this infighting has put me off a little. Do explain this point.

Anyway this is the post. Or should I say half the post:

The solution: The first thing we must do is reduce our dependence on the US. This is phase 1. 1) Initially we can start by trying to find new markets for our exports because in the event of us quitting their alliance they may increase tarriffs and create hurdles. We currently export about 18% of our goods to US (15.8 billion in 2012)

2) We have lots of defence contracts and a lot of components still have to be delivered. We have to ensure we make no new deals and initiate no new ventures with the US. Perhaps even wait an year for things we bought to be delivered. This field could suffer. Furthermore we have to begin concentrating on China, Russia and ingenious production. India is working on a 5th generation fighter.

Now we move to phase 2 of the solution. 1) Develop contacts with Iran. Now this might not go down well with a lot of people and even I don't like theocracies/mullahcracies. But I can only agree with their foreign policy. I mean what is a nation supposed to do? Even if they are seeking nukes, Iraq tried to build WMD's, US is in 2 neighboring countries (possibly 3 if Shamsi was used to spy on Iran) and is the only state to have used them and Israel has them as well as neighboring Pakistan. The negative point may be we may become too influenced by the system present there. I favor secularism so I am worried about the rights situation.

2) Offer China military bases in Pakistan in return for favoring us in UN and in all foreign policy matters. For example Iran was sanctioned to the teeth-but it could not have happened had the Chinese vetoed it. That veto has a lot of power. China may be a very important member and we must lean on it for our relationship. It is the bulwark of this idea. I would not have presented it even if China hadn't been an ally.

Optional: 3) I say optional because it will not go down well. Adopt secularism. Western nations sympathize with other secular states but I know the minds of my people still equate secularism with anti-Islamism which isn't true. In any case if it can't be done give people dignity, rights, freedom, justice and stop wrong and injustices whereever we see them. Most importantly deal with terrorism which should become easier after this since TTP will lose its backing since we are no more officially in the WOT.

Phase 3: 1) Become more assertive and defend national interest. This comes with being free of the US yoke. Demand things from the US we should be given. Recompensation for losses in war on terror. Aafia Siddiqui case. Everything. Present in the media how US has misused us. A knowledgable person can destroy the US narrative in moments. We suffered more in terrorism than we received aid so the narrative we are earning something is false and broken but not a single Pakistani challenges it. It is time to stand on our own feet. This should be the last phase.

The growing agitation of Pakistanis against USA

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do provide insight Iranian friends. I have always thought highly of Iran because it is the only nation with an independent foreign policy in the region.

I want particularly an explanation of:
1) The mullah issue
2) Thoughts on foreign policy
3) Getting a nuclear weapon
4) Reason and background behind fights of Turks/Arabs and Iranians.
5) How do you see an alliance between Pakistan and Iran and the relationship (main-do answer this)

There even used to be an alliance similar to this, CENTO/METO
Signed 1955 ended in 1979
It ended along with the Turkish Invasion of Cyprus since The British got angry at the Turks.
Pakistan during the 1965 war requested Aid form CENTO, which was rejected.
On the other hand There was a coup in Iraq which threw out the government and dissolved the Alliance. Lastly, The Iranian revolution happened and CENTO was fully Dissolved.

• United Kingdom
• Pakistan
• Iran
• Turkey
• Iraq

Were part of CENTO.

 

[Kompromat]

A bilateral 'alliance' with Iran at this stage is as destructive for Pakistan as a bilateral 'alliance' with Saudi Arabia.

Best hope is to further intensify 'multilateral' cooperation between ECO states which includes Iran.

Iran and Gulf states are engaged in proxy war. They are destroying Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Libya for their own objectives. Pakistan at this stage needs to discount any 'bilateral alliance' with either Iran or SA.

Cooperate through ECO and GCC platforms, bilateralism is a hot potato for us under given geostrategic climate.

 

[Imran Khan]

no not at all nor arabs not iran we must must stay neutral man

 

[Daneshmand]

I typed this post in terms of an alternative foreign policy for Pakistan. Do tell me what you think Iranian brothers. I wish as hell Turks, Iranians, Arabs and everyone else fought less though. Pakistan has good relations with every Muslim nation but this infighting has put me off a little. Do explain this point.

Anyway this is the post. Or should I say half the post:

The solution: The first thing we must do is reduce our dependence on the US. This is phase 1. 1) Initially we can start by trying to find new markets for our exports because in the event of us quitting their alliance they may increase tarriffs and create hurdles. We currently export about 18% of our goods to US (15.8 billion in 2012)

2) We have lots of defence contracts and a lot of components still have to be delivered. We have to ensure we make no new deals and initiate no new ventures with the US. Perhaps even wait an year for things we bought to be delivered. This field could suffer. Furthermore we have to begin concentrating on China, Russia and ingenious production. India is working on a 5th generation fighter.

Now we move to phase 2 of the solution. 1) Develop contacts with Iran. Now this might not go down well with a lot of people and even I don't like theocracies/mullahcracies. But I can only agree with their foreign policy. I mean what is a nation supposed to do? Even if they are seeking nukes, Iraq tried to build WMD's, US is in 2 neighboring countries (possibly 3 if Shamsi was used to spy on Iran) and is the only state to have used them and Israel has them as well as neighboring Pakistan. The negative point may be we may become too influenced by the system present there. I favor secularism so I am worried about the rights situation.

2) Offer China military bases in Pakistan in return for favoring us in UN and in all foreign policy matters. For example Iran was sanctioned to the teeth-but it could not have happened had the Chinese vetoed it. That veto has a lot of power. China may be a very important member and we must lean on it for our relationship. It is the bulwark of this idea. I would not have presented it even if China hadn't been an ally.

Optional: 3) I say optional because it will not go down well. Adopt secularism. Western nations sympathize with other secular states but I know the minds of my people still equate secularism with anti-Islamism which isn't true. In any case if it can't be done give people dignity, rights, freedom, justice and stop wrong and injustices whereever we see them. Most importantly deal with terrorism which should become easier after this since TTP will lose its backing since we are no more officially in the WOT.

Phase 3: 1) Become more assertive and defend national interest. This comes with being free of the US yoke. Demand things from the US we should be given. Recompensation for losses in war on terror. Aafia Siddiqui case. Everything. Present in the media how US has misused us. A knowledgable person can destroy the US narrative in moments. We suffered more in terrorism than we received aid so the narrative we are earning something is false and broken but not a single Pakistani challenges it. It is time to stand on our own feet. This should be the last phase.

The growing agitation of Pakistanis against USA

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do provide insight Iranian friends. I have always thought highly of Iran because it is the only nation with an independent foreign policy in the region.

I want particularly an explanation of:
1) The mullah issue
2) Thoughts on foreign policy
3) Getting a nuclear weapon
4) Reason and background behind fights of Turks/Arabs and Iranians.
5) How do you see an alliance between Pakistan and Iran and the relationship (main-do answer this)

Your post is abit old, and I don't know if you are still interested to know about the subject. But these are some points:

1) The Mullah issue is basically much propaganda and little actual substance. No nation is completely perfect but the reality is that Iran did have a popular revolution which has now matured. There are problems but still, alot has been achieved. Under the so called Mullahs, Iran for the first time in its very long history has achieved parity in education between girls and boys.

The illiteracy rate has plummeted to low single digit percentage. Universal access to dependable electricity supply and a huge consumer gas network, both of which did not exist before the age of Mullahs, are other achievements. The total fertility rate which was about 7, has been stabilized at 2. Universal vaccination and health access which did not exist before has been reached. These look like mundane things but they are not. Any nation still wanting to achieve these, knows how difficult these achievements can be.

I can assure you that in theocratic Iran, there is more cultural vibrancy and social freedom than many other places, for instance than even Pakistan. Though Pakistan is not a theocratic system, and its laws are entirely English in origin but the society itself is very conservative. This is not so in Iran (I am not judging here, just telling you my observations, I have respect for both conservatism and liberalism).

2) Iran's foreign policy both for itself and for others is independence. Iran supports independent foreign policy for all. Whether they be the secular socialists of Venezuela or the independence of Ireland. It does not matter. It is a universal value, that Iran is adamant about. This way, Iran sees the world to be a more just place than when most nations follow a select few other nations. Also Iran strategically calculates that if enough nations follow independent foreign policies, it benefits Iran indirectly, by reducing the power of Iran's adversaries.

3) Iran currently does not have a n. weapon program. Though it has achieved complete technical know-how. As per all reports, Iran has postponed the decision for such overt announcement to future. In effect, Iran is now following a policy of reaction to future events. If things go in favor of Iran, then there is no need for overt announcement but if it did not, then things can change.

4) Strategic competition throughout history. But now things are a bit different since Turks/Arabs do not have independent foreign policy and are being played by outside forces. So in effect, Iran sees things from a prism, through which Turks/Arabs appear as puppets. But the case of Turks is abit different, because unlike Arabs (Saddam and his allies), they have never attacked Iran directly. In fact a strong modus vivendi exists between the two. The border between Iran and Turkey is one the oldest borders in the world (no war since 16th century).

5) Iran has had quite good relationship with Pakistan both before and after the revolution. There have been hard moments, but the modus vivendi has held. Right now there is no publicly acknowledged strategic partnership between the two and this will go on until Pakistan does not practice independent foreign policy or Iran abandoning its vision for such independence ideology, and until the objectives of both do not have enough common elements in it to warrant such a partnership, for instance the trade between Iran and Pakistan is actually quite small compared to the size of their economies.

Regarding some other points you raised:

* Iran does not expect Pakistan to act against its national interests and vice versa. For instance, the Chinese partnership with Pakistan is old and of high importance and value to Pakistan mainly because the main adversary of Pakistan the India is much larger than Pakistan both in size of population and land mass. Iran understands this. If anything, Pakistan could be a bridge between China and Iran.

* Iran has believed for the past 3 decades that the American power in the region and beyond, is on a descendency course, therefore it is an opportunity for states with independent foreign policy to increase cooperation and trade as well as their global influence. This strategic calculation of Iran, became more relevant after the Asia pivot policy of US and the Ukraine crisis recently. Iran expects the trend to continue and therefore does not see any need for change in its policies.

* The imperialist powers do not sympathize with secularism. They "sympathize" with subservience. Saudi Arabia is as anti-secular state as you can get. They have all the sympathies. Assad's Syria was one of the most secular states among Muslim states. Yet, no sympathy was afforded. What is important to hegemonic powers, is not the system of governance but the subservience of their foreign policy.

 

[SOHEIL]

This is impossible ... pakistan more interested in habibis ... so ...

 

[haman10]

This is impossible ... pakistan more interested in habibis ... so ...

Actually when it comes to people's sentiments , Statistic shows otherwise

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

I dnt think so .

 

[New World]

At this stage I would advice that Pakistan should not engage in any alliance and concentrate only in safeguard Pakistan from this shity terrorist and encourage business opportunities in Pakistan..

Otherwise If any side Pak choose it definitely will meet same fate as now things are happening in Syria, Iraq, Yemen etc..

 

[Max]

Actually when it comes to people's sentiments , Statistic shows otherwise

Its bcoz of your stand against Israel.. but masses are now getting fed up of daily threats of Iranian Leadership and zero action... Invade Isreal

 

[yavar]

impossible no chance whatsoever .with i this Pakistan establishment + government + top bras Pakistan Army .


but 100% with Pakistani people . because they are good distant people trust me on this

 

[Jaanbaz]

Pakistan should stay neutral.