An interesting article about China`!

[474474]

I'm laughing so loud... can't type... just read my signature...

LMAO, thanks for sharing the laugh
I can just imagine you all red and saying that in Apu's voice!!!

 

[ajtr]

there is change in way of life but all parts of India have common culture even which reflect in some indian muslims too.

IVC is just and disputed theory discarded by scholars and it has nothing to with pak . Islam is not Indian culture , Indic religion are strongly associate with Indian culture . Actually Hindu is name of culture not religion who are free to any faith , you can worship anyone , you can follow any faith . Islam doesn't fit with indic culture , it's opposite to indic culture and free faith with bind to particular faith of islam , islami god have limited boundaries. islam don't respect other faith .

wow.....................

 

[notsuperstitious]

IVC ain't Pakistani & Islam doesn't belong here except we've got the land !

How silly can one get. IVC was mostly based in today's post 1971 pakistan. Indeed its pakistan's heritage (and India and Afghanistan's as it covered parts of those countries too).

HOWEVER, that is different from saying that Pakistan was created on IVC, or today's pakistan is living IVC (which is extinct) blah blah blah that the likes of tickers keep peddling. It obviously comes across as another identity building fake polemic, as you guys seem to have admitted everything else has failed.

On a side note might I ask when do they accuse us of idolizing the so-called 'Afghan Invaders' & yet forget that we've probably got more than twice of their descendants *the Pashtuns* then those present in the rest of the world combined. !

For that feat please learn to idolise the other invaders too - the British. I don't see you lot doing that, too bad. If not for them, the Afghan areas would be in Afghanistan. Despite this glaring inconsistency, your original argument is still lame.

LMAO, thanks for sharing the laugh
I can just imagine you all red and saying that in Apu's voice!!!

A pakistani trying to be racist to me, like really! BTW just so you know APU character was created to honor a great Indian. Bt unfortunately a sense of humor grows only along with the brain.

 

[Desert Fox]

there is change in way of life but all parts of India have common culture even which reflect in some indian muslims too.

IVC is just and disputed theory discarded by scholars and it has nothing to with pak . Islam is not Indian culture , Indic religion are strongly associate with Indian culture . Actually Hindu is name of culture not religion who are free to any faith , you can worship anyone , you can follow any faith . Islam doesn't fit with indic culture , it's opposite to indic culture and free faith with bind to particular faith of islam , islami god have limited boundaries. islam don't respect other faith .

IVC is not indian, its Pakistanis and its on our soil. You indians can claim whatever is on your land.

 

[notsuperstitious]

IVC is not indian, its Pakistanis and its on our soil. You indians can claim whatever is on your land.

Relics of IVC found on Pakistani soil are pakistani and relics of IVC found on Indian soil are Indian. Indus valley civilisation is extinct.

There is a dinosaur species called Indosaurus, the fosils are found in India. But it can not be said that Indosaurus is part of India's fauna today, can it be?

 

[ajtr]

How silly can one get. IVC was mostly based in today's post 1971 pakistan. Indeed its pakistan's heritage (and India and Afghanistan's as it covered parts of those countries too).

HOWEVER, that is different from saying that Pakistan was created on IVC, or today's pakistan is living IVC (which is extinct) blah blah blah that the likes of tickers keep peddling. It obviously comes across as another identity building fake polemic, as you guys seem to have admitted everything else has failed.

For once its the pakistanis who are waking up to there old identities which jeopardizes the indian's identity who were claiming IVC all these yeras.I wonder what indian claim now -may be south east asian identity justifying that cholas once ruled it or the central asian identity justifying that mughals ruled them once.

 

[notsuperstitious]

For once its the pakistanis who are waking up to there old identities which jeopardizes the indian's identity who were claiming IVC all these yeras.I wonder what indian claim now -may be south east asian identity justifying that cholas once ruled it or the central asian identity justifying that mughals ruled them once.

How are fossils identity? And what is indian identity - one that we create and we inherit. We inherit physical looks, culture, language, food, music, dance and we create economic - scientific contribution, art etc. Indians world over and in India are known by these things, not as scions of IVC (whatever dafaq that means). for example indians are not known by indosaurus, a species of dinosaurus that is now extinct.

That kind of weird logic is only in deluded minds.

BTW I'm happy pakistanis are getting interest in their lost history, but they seem to be skipping a 4000 year old period because its not convenient.

 

[ajtr]

How are fossils identity? And what is indian identity - one that we create and one that we inherit. We inherit physical looks, culture, language, food, music, dance and we create economic - scientific contribution, art etc. Indians world over and in India are known by these things, not as scions of IVC. That kind of weird logic is only in deluded minds.

I dont think there is any indian identity or even culture -vulture. So no question arises about it except for the fact indians trying to lap up the identity of land of indus.Minds get deluded when over 1000s of centruries indians lap up false information and myths and term it as religion without even questioning it.

 

[Kloitra]

So pointing out the norm where author himself make the main Character of Ramayan The God himself comparing the woman with animal, illiterate,low caste,drum is insulting to woman>how can hindus lap up such a god who was made to insult the woman just in authors imagination.?


Of course you can and other hindus can lap up such an explanation means the stupidity onto them not me.I'm gonna challenge ever stupidity among hindus and their religious texts.

No wonder caste system in hindu society is still thriving for 5000 of years when their God itself are made to ridicule low caste and women in their religious text deeply ingrained in hindu culture and psyche and no wonder the crime against women and low caste is still thriving in india.

You are like a freshly painted wall. There is a notice it is wet paint but we still touch it to confirm.
I know you wont even try to understand but I am putting little more effort.

I will just point you again to the yahoo answer, in hope you have read it. It will save me some time.

'Dhol Gawanr Shudra Pashu Nari, Sakal Tadan ke Adhikari'

It is to be noted that simply pulling out the word woman (‘Nari&#8217 and declaring that Tulsidas told women are ought to be beaten and scolded (‘Tadan ke Adhikari&#8217 as per Hindu society, would be wrong as the sentence contains many other entities and the context too has to be clarified. We will analyze the whole sentence and try to understand what is meant out of it, in context of the situation in the scripture, and as explained by Hindu saints. The above lines are said by the Sea Deity ‘Samudra’ to Lord Rama. When Lord Rama got angry and took out weapon in order to evaporate the whole sea, the deity appeared and said above lines in context of boundaries that are created by God himself in order to hold his creations. Even sea resides in its boundaries and hence to go across it, Rama supervised the construction of famous Rama Setu Bandh. The metaphors are used to convince the reader that matter or non-matter, ignorant or learned, animal or human, all need to understand the importance of boundaries of nature. The exact meaning of the sentences even out of the context goes as:

Let us understand the literary meaning of ‘Tadana’ first. The word is of abstract meaning and can mean many things. Directly it means scolding or commenting so as to keep the conscience intact. Indirectly, it is considered as a boundary of society or family that holds a member of the family or society within its meaning.

‘Dhol’ means drum – it needs to be beaten, but in boundaries of rhythm to produce beauty of music, otherwise it becomes harsh noise.

‘Gawanr’ means ‘Ignorant and illiterate’ – they need to be held in the observed boundary and controllable limits, or else they would create havoc out of means of livelihood.

‘Shudra’ means ‘Worker classes – they need to be guided so that they do not create mess of their work.

‘Pashu’ means animal – they need to be controlled. ‘Nari’ means ‘Woman’ – they need to be kept in the boundary of culture, as they are more important pillar of a house, society and nation than men.

Thus, the complete sentence means within context of the story, as Drum, Ignorant, Illiterates, Animals and Women are ought to respect boundaries, so the sea also has its boundaries in respect and powers should not be forced to destabilize those boundaries – this is what is told by the deity.

I will reiterate. Be it drum (musical instrument), ignorant, animals or women everyone ought respect boundaries. This was a metaphor, to indicate that even sea has to remain in its boundaries. This was told by the deity of sea to Lord Rama.

In short, the deity of sea was telling Lord Rama that dont force the sea with your power to leave its boundaries, as like every creation it too should be in its limits. In other words, the deity of sea was using women as metaphor to relate to itself, comparing the women with the deity. Now tell me, how does this sound to you, in Hindu scriptures, women are compared to deities!!

And no, shudra here doesnt means low caste, just a working class.
For your knowledge, hoping you can actually grasp it, the basic division of caste in Hinduism is:

Kshatriya - ruling and warrior class.
Brahmin - the learned ones, whose job was to study religion, scriptures etc.
Vaishya - Business.
Shudra - working class, who would do all the work, which doesnt equate to untouchables.

I dont understand, it was so clear in the yahoo answers, yet how did you managed to reach a stupid conclusion? How biased you can be? Or are you just plain stupid?!!!

 

[notsuperstitious]

I dont think there is any indian identity or even culture -vulture. So no question arises about it except for the fact indians trying to lap up the identity of land of indus.Minds get deluded when over 1000s of centruries indians lap up false information and myths and term it as religion without even questioning it.

Hey I question religion and reject it, all of them. But why is it relevant on all threads, because you changed yours? I can make fun of your new religion till my eyes water from laughing, but thats rude. Besides I don't have mod friends.

And about Indian identity, whatever man! We are comfortable and are not trying to build one through indoctrination making up stories about 5000 year old fossils (and looking silly as a clown in the process). Everyone has an opinion and you have one, Noted.

 

[ajtr]

You are like a freshly painted wall. There is a notice it is wet paint but we still touch it to confirm.
I know you wont even try to understand but I am putting little more effort.

I will just point you again to the yahoo answer, in hope you have read it. It will save me some time.

'Dhol Gawanr Shudra Pashu Nari, Sakal Tadan ke Adhikari'



I will reiterate. Be it drum (musical instrument), ignorant, animals or women everyone ought respect boundaries. This was a metaphor, to indicate that even sea has to remain in its boundaries. This was told by the deity of sea to Lord Rama.

In short, the deity of sea was telling Lord Rama that dont force the sea with your power to leave its boundaries, as like every creation it too should be in its limits. In other words, the deity of sea was using women as metaphor to relate to itself, comparing the women with the deity. Now tell me, how does this sound to you, in Hindu scriptures, women are compared to deities!!

And no, shudra here doesnt means low caste, just a working class.
For your knowledge, hoping you can actually grasp it, the basic division of caste in Hinduism is:

Kshatriya - ruling and warrior class.
Brahmin - the learned ones, whose job was to study religion, scriptures etc.
Vaishya - Business.
Shudra - working class, who would do all the work, which doesnt equate to untouchables.

I dont understand, it was so clear in the yahoo answers, yet how did you managed to reach a stupid conclusion? How biased you can be? Or are you just plain stupid?!!!

Kakay keep your yahoo answers to yourself coz you wont be able to get irrelevance of it coz you are like ROM Which has been fed the info for permanent.

Any one who can read above explanation can point out the irony in it.

 

[Kloitra]

I dont think there is any indian identity or even culture -vulture. So no question arises about it except for the fact indians trying to lap up the identity of land of indus.Minds get deluded when over 1000s of centruries indians lap up false information and myths and term it as religion without even questioning it.

Yup, Indians are there for 1000s of centruries but still the identity is not there. At least post something sensible.

 

[Abhishek_]

Yup, Indians are there for 1000s of centruries but still, the identity is not there. You are so annoyingly dead from the neck up. At least post something sensible.

you'll get used to it sirjee. treat it as comic relief as most of us

 

[Kloitra]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe, I can understand your compulsions to retain and support a religion or mythology based ideological moorings and pseudo identity base with a civilization which most Indians think that it was their origin and define their identity.

Sadly for your thesis, I have no compulsion to retain and support a religion or mythology based ideological mooring or moorings and pseudo identity base with a civilisation which most Indians think was their origin and definer of their identity.

First, having examined the matter several decades ago, I am an agnostic and atheist, and have no affiliation to religion. The details of my identity as a born Hindu are anthropological curiousities, and any references to them are self-indulgence on my part. It is amusing to see your desperate grab for a handle with which to decry my neutral and objective analysis as biased and part of a greater Hindutva or Indic narrative. All the more because throughout my membership of this forum, I have fought - actively - to correct the horrible mishmash of religion and mythology which these revisionists see as possible substitutes for archaeological, historical and other social scientific analysis.

So when you flail out and reach for this, it is only an amusing insight into your state of mind as you parade your tired arguments for the umpteenth time. If you have started viewing objective insights as the products of a biased vision, in the teeth of the consistent, written evidence available within the archives of PDF for all to examine at their convenience, you must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It is another idle amusement to wonder at the temerity of these accusations of religious and mythological bias coming from one of the most high-pitched voices for a religious creation and one of the arch-priests of a new, shiny, made-to-order mythology which is hoped to substitute for your own bare larder.

Perhaps the weakness is not mine, but yours. It is not that I am trammeled by religion, perhaps, but that you are compelled, due to the nature of the case that you so valiantly have sought to defend, to embrace religion, and are not free to cast it away as I have. It is not that I am guided by myth, perhaps, as much as that you and your compatriots are desperately seeking something to replace what you think you have lost. I think it is no great loss - mythology is mythology, an often-present aspect of culture, but not something critical - but clearly, from your actions and your arguments, you don't think so. Nothing else would explain your increasingly desperate attacks on an undefended fortification, or your efforts to create one for yourself.

Regarding ideological moorings, Indians do not have this pathetic need to justify their existence, either in the eyes of the world, or, most damaging to the psyche, to themselves. That is a problem to be encountered only in the synthetic piece of plastic that you inhabit. Indians did not find the need, earlier or today, to write a Nazariya-e-Hind. That, as a matter of some clinical interest, seems to be exclusively confined to the banks of the Indus.

There is no need for Indians to justify their existence, because history speaks for itself, no matter how many attempts are made to conflate it with religion or with mythology. This attempt at conflation is common both to Pakistani apologists for their own gerrymandered nation and to rootless Hindus who are seeking roots without any understanding or knowledge that their roots and their heritage are independent of their being Hindu, and antedate such a religious identity, as well as run parallel to and beyond such an identity. I can hardly be expected to do more than laugh at these childish attempts by both sets of rootless individuals to seek roots in myth. Both of you are equally guilty, one of subscribing to existing, recorded vapour, one of trying vainly to create their own vapours and mists.

The plain, hard truth about Pakistan is clear. All that I have witnessed you try to do is to borrow feathers from others and brighten up that plain, hard truth. Unfortunately, your angst is very poorly soothed by these attempts; ultimately, even if you convince yourselves that you are heirs to a heritage that you laughably mislaid for 3,200 years, nobody else will buy in. But please feel free to try; if you can survive the laughter and the derision, it would at least strengthen character. I am unable to speculate about possible improvements.