An enigmatic script from Gandhara

[W.11]

https://www.academia.edu/4161941/Ga...peteRapin_Claude._1992._Fouilles_d_Aï_Khanoum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohi_script

A tentalizing discovery which has not received much scholarly attention.

The author (the only one to research on this script) claims that its a genuine script and not a fake and has many similarities with Kharoshti, brahmi and indus characters. It is written from right to left

 

[Indus Pakistan]

https://www.academia.edu/4161941/Gandhāran_Studies_Vol.1_89_Kohi_Script_from_Gandhāra_Discovery_of_Another_Ancient_Indian_Writing_SystemGranite_Slab_Inscription_Material_GraniteMarble_Slab_Inscription_Material_Marble_Condition_CompeteRapin_Claude._1992._Fouilles_d_Aï_Khanoum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohi_script

A tentalizing discovery which has not received much scholarly attention.

The author (the only one to research on this script) claims that its a genuine script and not a fake and has many similarities with Kharoshti, brahmi and indus characters. It is written from right to left

Gandhara, Pakistan. Probably eipicentre of global civilizations. Rather interesting that Taxila is a suburb today of capital of Pakistan ~ Islamabad.

What was Gandhara? The region between modern day Kabul, Afghanistan and Islamabad, Pakistan with Peshawar in the centre stretching north into Swat.

 

[W.11]

https://www.academia.edu/39367296/Seals_and_sealings_from_Kashmir_Smast_and_its_surrounding_areas

another script or pseudo script from Taxila. impression made by cylinder seal

https://www.academia.edu/38204376/Extracts_from_Ahuja_Ashmolean_Cat.pdf

 

[cocomo]

Its sad there aren't any locally made documentaries that reenact the living / culture of those times. We could have incorporated shapes from these text typefaces into our Urdu khat producing something very unique to us. I heard somewhere that Buddha statue making was started in Pakistan/Afghanistan during Gandhara times.

An example of islamizing the sculpting tradition.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Its sad there aren't any locally made documentaries that reenact the living / culture of those times. We could have incorporated shapes from these text typefaces into our Urdu khat producing something very unique to us. I heard somewhere that Buddha statue making was started in Pakistan/Afghanistan during Gandhara times.

An example of islamizing the sculpting tradition.

There seems to be some confusion.

In the Gandhara region, Buddha statues were made in a style derived from Greek sculpture. There is some disagreement among scholars as to whether or not these were the first statues made, since earlier representations of the Buddha were of a foot, or a lotus.

The importance is two-fold; one, that lifelike statues were made; two, that they resembled the sculptures of the Greeks.

This could happen only in Gandhara because of the Greek influence there (from the Bactrian Greek kingdoms). The cultural influence was external, grafted onto Gandhara social life.

 

[W.11]

In the Gandhara region, Buddha statues were made in a style derived from Greek sculpture.

Gandhara statures have not derived from the greek art, the western scholars like to claim that (which i think is exaggerated), there are some greek looking statues from bactria which are all non buddhist, there might be some influence on gandharan buddhist statuary as well,, but the they are all typical gandharan native style. The western scholars like to claim any high art image as greek inspiration which i think is dubious.

regards

 

[Joe Shearer]

Gandhara statures have not derived from the greek art, the western scholars like to claim that (which i think is exaggerated), there are some greek looking statues from bactria which are all non buddhist, there might be some influence on gandharan buddhist statuary as well,, but the they are all typical gandharan native style. The western scholars like to claim any high art image as greek inspiration which i think is dubious.

regards

I respect your views as none other, but in this regard you may not be right.

This is why I carefully tiptoed around the question of origins of the statues. If you have seen the statues of the Buddha, you will see a maturity of treatment of the folds of the garments that simply doesn't spring out of nowhere. Even in Greek statuary, there was a long period of evolution - it is visible in the sequence of statues that have been preserved there - and there was a visible movement from a wooden, stiff depiction to the flowing forms of the mature art.

However, I do not force my opinions on you, except to suggest that when you see the paucity of earlier examples, to believe that Gandhara art began with no preliminaries and reached maturity immediately, without any build-up, is rather like an automobile doing 0 to 100 in 1 second. It is unlikely.

My respect for your brilliant posts remains, naturally, undiminished.

 

[W.11]

I respect your views as none other, but in this regard you may not be right.

This is why I carefully tiptoed around the question of origins of the statues. If you have seen the statues of the Buddha, you will see a maturity of treatment of the folds of the garments that simply doesn't spring out of nowhere. Even in Greek statuary, there was a long period of evolution - it is visible in the sequence of statues that have been preserved there - and there was a visible movement from a wooden, stiff depiction to the flowing forms of the mature art.

However, I do not force my opinions on you, except to suggest that when you see the paucity of earlier examples, to believe that Gandhara art began with no preliminaries and reached maturity immediately, without any build-up, is rather like an automobile doing 0 to 100 in 1 second. It is unlikely.

My respect for your brilliant posts remains, naturally, undiminished.

i never said that there was no greek influence, i only said that over all they are not greek statues.

in regards to gradual evolution of greek statues try researching ''minoan pylos combat agate'', this is 1500 BC we are talking about and already shows matured level of the greek statuary or arts to come, if we go even further back,, all the elements of the greek statuary are depicted in mesopotamian bronze age arts. The theory of greek classical evolution of its statues has flopped badly since the discovery of pylos artifact

same goes to the gandharan statues, there is a bronze age piece called ''red jaspar torso'' excavated from harappa, which was declared as gupta era statue due to classical look but it is really from indus valley civilization.

In regards to your folds of the garments, this is shown in mauryan era terracotta statues as well, but then the western scholars have declared entire mauryan art as hellenistic influenced.

regards

 

[Bouncer]

Gandhara statures have not derived from the greek art, the western scholars like to claim that (which i think is exaggerated), there are some greek looking statues from bactria which are all non buddhist, there might be some influence on gandharan buddhist statuary as well,, but the they are all typical gandharan native style. The western scholars like to claim any high art image as greek inspiration which i think is dubious.

I respect your views as none other, but in this regard you may not be right.

This is why I carefully tiptoed around the question of origins of the statues. If you have seen the statues of the Buddha, you will see a maturity of treatment of the folds of the garments that simply doesn't spring out of nowhere. Even in Greek statuary, there was a long period of evolution - it is visible in the sequence of statues that have been preserved there - and there was a visible movement from a wooden, stiff depiction to the flowing forms of the mature art.

However, I do not force my opinions on you, except to suggest that when you see the paucity of earlier examples, to believe that Gandhara art began with no preliminaries and reached maturity immediately, without any build-up, is rather like an automobile doing 0 to 100 in 1 second. It is unlikely.

My respect for your brilliant posts remains, naturally, undiminished.

This kind of educated and respectful exchange is what keeps humble (and uneducated) students of history like me on this forum. Thank you gentlemen!

@Joe Shearer , would it be possible for you to validate your point with some details and possibly pictures of this evolution of sculpting in Greek and Gandharan domains that you referred to?

 

[Joe Shearer]

This kind of educated and respectful exchange is what keeps humble (and uneducated) students of history like me on this forum. Thank you gentlemen!

@Joe Shearer , would it be possible for you to validate your point with some details and possibly pictures of this evolution of sculpting in Greek and Gandharan domains that you referred to?

Yes, of course, but considering that a stickler like @W.11 will be reading, I will do so after carefully putting together the matter.

 

[cocomo]

There seems to be some confusion.

Where is the confusion? Your post is just repeat of what the singaporean scholar said in the video about synthesis of Greek and local traditions? What are the contradicting views about birthplace of Buddha statues, would you like to share?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Where is the confusion? Your post is just repeat of what the singaporean scholar said in the video about synthesis of Greek and local traditions? What are the contradicting views about birthplace of Buddha statues, would you like to share?

I already answered what I intend to do. Please read all the posts before going off half-cocked.

 

[Bouncer]

Yes, of course, but considering that a stickler like @W.11 will be reading, I will do so after carefully putting together the matter.

Thanks! Looking forward to it.

 

[cocomo]

I already answered what I intend to do. Please read all the posts before going off half-cocked.

The fk would i read all your posts? You tried being a uninvited contrarian there but failed at that too. Whenever Pakistan and its heritage is mentioned, you red dotted vedic scholars get a tingling in your backside. Mind your own business you obsessive ganga floaters.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The fk would i read all your posts? You tried being a uninvited contrarian there but failed at that too. Whenever Pakistan and its heritage is mentioned, you red dotted vedic scholars get a tingling in your backside. Mind your own business you obsessive ganga floaters.

Why don't you take an indigestion tablet? It might help.