Amnesty International on Kulbushan Jadhav: Pakistan military court violates international standards

[Awan68]

No use talking with you.

have a good day

Exactly the reply i was expecting, ur inferiority complex wont ever let u see sense, i see u can never forget those 1000 yrs...

 

[Peshwa]

Which convention do you think applies/should apply?

The Geneva Conventions apply in wars between two or more sovereign states

The first Geneva Convention ("for the Amelioration of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces and Field")
The second Geneva Convention ("for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea")
The third Geneva Convention ("Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War")
The fourth Geneva Convention ("Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War")

The first two are similar, covering land and sea respectively, and embody the main idea which led to the founding of the Red Cross: if a member of the armed forces is wounded or sick, and therefore in no condition to take an active part in the hostilities, he is no longer part of the fighting force and becomes a vulnerable person in need of protection and care. The main points of these two Conventions are: The sick, wounded and shipwrecked must be cared for adequately. Belligerents must treat members of the enemy force who are wounded, sick or shipwrecked as carefully they would their own. All efforts should be made to collect the dead quickly; to confirm death by medical examination; to identify bodies and protect them from robbery. Medical equipment must not be intentionally destroyed and medical establishments and vehicles must not be attacked, damaged or prevented from operating even if, for the moment, they do not contain patients.

The third convention covers members of the armed forces who fall into enemy hands. They are in the power of the enemy State, not of the individuals or troops who have captured them. The fourth covers all individuals "who do not belong to the armed forces, take no part in the hostilities and find themselves in the hands of the Enemy or an Occupying Power".

Please note there is not a state of War between Pakistan and India.
There is no case of a military conflict or military occupation.

See e.g.
http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/texts/doc_geneva_con.html
https://www.icrc.org/en/war-and-law/treaties-customary-law/geneva-conventions

As for the treatment of spies specifically, see https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule107_sectionb
https://www.quora.com/Does-the-Geneva-Convention-apply-to-spies

Article 5 of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides: “Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy … such … [person] shall nevertheless be treated with humanity, and in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention.”

> occupation is not the case

Additional Protocol I
Article 46(1) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides:
Notwithstanding any other provision of the Conventions or of this Protocol, any member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict who falls into the power of an adverse Party while engaging in espionage shall not have the right to the status of prisoner of war and may be treated as a spy.

> armed conflict is not the case
> even if it were the case, spies cannot claim PoW status

Article 45(3) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides:
Any person who has taken part in hostilities, who is not entitled to prisoner-of-war status and who does not benefit from more favourable treatment in accordance with the Fourth Convention shall have the right at all times to the protection of Article 75 of this Protocol.

> taking part in hostilities is not the case
> article 75, see https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/appl...t&documentId=086F4BB140C53655C12563CD0051E027

For those nations that have ratified Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions, are also bound by Article 45.3 of that protocol which curtails GCIV Article 5.
Any person who has taken part in hostilities, who is not entitled to prisoner‑of‑war status and who does not benefit from more favourable treatment in accordance with the Fourth Convention shall have the right at all times to the protection of Article 75 of this Protocol. In occupied territory, any such person, unless he is held as a spy, shall also be entitled, notwithstanding Article 5 of the Fourth Convention, to his rights of communication under that Convention.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant

More info, see http://notabeneuh.blogspot.nl/2013/11/spying-and-international-law.html

Thanks! Appreciate the response.
So since this isn't a wartime situation, Geneva convention does not apply.
So how should Jadhav be treated then? Does he not entitle himself to a fair trial based on international norms?
Is what Pakistan doing with its opaque military court and judgement not a violation? And if so, what options does India have from a diplomatic front?

 

[volatile]

I would request all that in coming days many such FAKE NEWS will surface.... please check the source before committing to it

I recently opened a thread poll in which i requested admins to take notice of flawed / bogus articles published by Indians any ways we can only point out what we can

 

[Penguin]

So,article 75 should be applied here?

No, not necessarily.

"Any person who has taken part in hostilities, who is not entitled to prisoner‑of‑war status and who does not benefit from more favourable treatment in accordance with the Fourth Convention shall have the right at all times to the protection of Article 75 of this Protocol."

There are 3 conditions here:

• hostilities (i.e. open warfare)
  
• participation (i.e. belligerent status)
  
• not entitled PoW status (uniformed soldier) or favorable treatment (special non-uniformed groups)

The Geneva Conventions apply in wars between two or more sovereign states
There is no war situation here. Hence no hostilities to take part in.
I doubt Geneva conventions apply to (spying in) peacetime.

In war: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2k6z06/how_did_the_different_treatment_of_spies/
Otherwise: https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-modern-spies-that-get-caught

Thanks! Appreciate the response.
So since this isn't a wartime situation, Geneva convention does not apply.

That is my reading, but I am NOT a lawyer.

So how should Jadhav be treated then? Does he not entitle himself to a fair trial based on international norms? Is what Pakistan doing with its opaque military court and judgement not a violation? And if so, what options does India have from a diplomatic front?

What does Pakistan's civil law say?
On what basis ("Why") did this end up in a court, and - more specifically - a military court?
What other options are available to Pakistan (e.g. expulsion, turning the spy etc) > is this merely symbolic politics, "sending a message"?
Generally speaking, when caught spying, one is f*cked unless 'home' has something to trade or leverage and negotiates convincingly.

 

[Peshwa]

That is my reading, but I am NOT a lawyer.


What does Pakistan's civil law say?
On what basis ("Why") did this end up in a court, and - more specifically - a military court?
What other options are available to Pakistan (e.g. expulsion, turning the spy etc) > is this merely symbolic politics, "sending a message"?
Generally speaking, when caught spying, one is f*cked unless 'home' has something to trade or leverage and negotiates convincingly.

Seems pretty symbolic to me! It's more a message than "justice has been served" situation.
No information on what specific acts of "terrorism" he was involved in, no details of the court proceedings, except a simple judgement of death.
The entire line of argument from a Pak perspective revolves around a confession, which can easily be made under duress.
Thats my understanding based on the information available through media.

Also, what conditions would suffice a death penalty as that has been rare for spying. Terrorism would be one, but with no information on specific acts, this leaves a lot of room for speculation.

 

[Neutron]

Pakistan should internationalise this issue and demand from UN to sanction india as per international law as consequence of harbouring terrorism as state policy in neighbouring country Pakistan

 

[Trisonics]

Pakistan should internationalise this issue and demand from UN to sanction india as per international law as consequence of harbouring terrorism as state policy in neighbouring country Pakistan

I fully support this!!! At least Pakistan then will have to provide enough evidence to back this claim. Thank you for a great thought.

 

[Penguin]

Pakistan should internationalise this issue and demand from UN to sanction india as per international law as consequence of harbouring terrorism as state policy in neighbouring country Pakistan

Not a bad suggestion. Perhaps the current course is primarily for domestic consumption?

 

[mrrehan]

We dont need such a organization in Pakistan like Amnesty international that is going over it's limit. Amnesty international should apologize for that or Pakistan should consider bann its activities in country.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

NAJAM SETHI ON KULBUSHAN JADAV AND HOW AT THE END OF THIS FARCE HE WILL IN FACT GET COUNSELOR ACCESS AND NOT GET EXECUTED AT ALL BUT 10-15 YEAR LATER WILL BE SWAPED FOR AN EQUALLY IMPORTANT ISI AGENT.
He is defensive all throughout the video about how Kulbushan's death sentence is not a result of the Pak army Lt. Col./ISI agent caught in Nepal, who he calls either "bewakoof" or "ambitious" but not a spy.

I'm guessing he must be really important if Pakistanis are willing to risk fake-posturing publicly about "hanging" Jadav.
I think we caught ourselves a big one here, we all know what comes next.

 

[My-Analogous]

Amnesty International on Kulbushan Jadhav: Pakistan military court violates international standards

LONDON/NEW DELHI: By sentencing Indian national Kulbushan Jadhav to death, Pakistan's military court system has once again showed how it "rides roughshod over international standards", Amnesty International said on Monday, questioning the secretive court's ability to dispense justice.

Amnesty opposes the death penalty at all times and in all circumstances, regardless of who is accused, the crime, guilt or innocence, or the method of execution, he said.

A Pakistan military court sentenced Jadhav to death+ after he was convicted of "espionage and sabotage activities".

The award of the death sentence to the 46-year-old former Naval officer at a court-martial was confirmed by Pakistan's army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa on Monday.


" The death sentence+ given to Kulbushan Jadhav shows yet again how Pakistan's military court system rides roughshod over international standards," Biraj Patnaik, South Asia director, Amnesty International, said in response to Pakistan military court sentencing Jadhav to death for alleged spying.

"Stripping defendants of their rights and operating in notorious secrecy, military courts do not dispense justice but travesty it. They are an inherently abusive system that are best left to deal with issues of military discipline, not any other crimes," Patnaik said in a statement.
The prominent rights group also noted that over 87 executions were recorded in Pakistan in 2016 and more than ver 360 death sentences were recorded in the country last year.

Pakistan sentences alleged Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav to death: 10 developments

It said that over 6,000 people are known to be under death sentence at the end of 2016 in Pakistan, which is among the world's top 5 executioners.

If Pak executes Jadhav, it'll be a premeditated murder: India

Reacting strongly, India on Monday said it will regard as "premeditated murder" if Pakistan carries out the death sentence, awarded to its national Kulbhushan Jadhav "without observing basic norms of law and justice".




Foreign secretary S Jaishankar summoned Pakistan high commissioner to India Abdul Basit and gave a strongly-worded demarche, which said the proceedings that have led to the sentence against Jadhav were "farcical" as there were no "credible evidence" against him.




The proceedings that have led to the sentence against Jadhav are "farcical in the absence of any credible evidence" against him, it said, adding it is significant that Indian High Commission was not even informed that Jadhav was being brought to trial.
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If it was an Israeli citizen (Jew) in the hands of Palestinian Islamic terrorists like Hamas, we would have razed Gaza or West Bank to ground. I would like to see how much Modi values the life of an ... Read MoreCol. Avner Mueller


"Senior Pakistani figures have themselves cast doubt about the adequacy of evidence. The claim in the ISPR release that Jadhav was provided with a defending officer during the so-called trial is clearly absurd in the circumstances.




"If this sentence against an Indian citizen, awarded without observing basic norms of law and justice, is carried out, the government and people of India will regard it as a case of premeditated murder," the foreign secretary said in the demarche.

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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ernational-standards/articleshow/58113616.cms

Of course source must be Indian. There is no law for spy period. Stop crying and by the way he was not Indian citizen as per Indian sources remember?

 

[Umaish Khan]

Well! there are nations who have not taken the so-called international laws into account and have sentenced spies or traitors to death... Including the US, France and several other champions of the "International laws"

The Monkey Who Got Caught – Kulbhushan Yadav
India's hybrid warfare against Pakistan knows no bounds and Kulbhushan Yadav is just one piece of the puzzle in a war of massive proportions
Read@ http://groundzero.pk/monkey-kulbhushan-yadav/

They should read this... How it isn't just about Kulbhushan but it is about the whole package... India's Hybrid War against Pakistan.

 

[Zhukov]

"Biraj Patnaik" a hindu.
"WAS a navy officer"

ROFL
Ro india Ro
Ye to latkey ga hi ab jo marzi kar lo

 

[boxer_B]

Pakistan should internationalise this issue and demand from UN to sanction india as per international law as consequence of harbouring terrorism as state policy in neighbouring country Pakistan

Fully support your view. Let Pakistan go to UN and humiliate India. Infact, Pakistan should also file a case in International court of Justice and demand damages in addition. Don't you want to recover losses that Kalbhushan caused to CPEC and Baluchistan ????

You have a strong case. File it in ICJ.

"Biraj Patnaik" a hindu.
"WAS a navy officer"

ROFL
Ro india Ro
Ye to latkey ga hi ab jo marzi kar lo

Indian navy is one arm where Pakistan position is like a man standing in front of Eiffel tower. Furthermore, Pakistan wouldn't gain anything by hanging innocent but ire and blowback from India.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Fully support your view. Let Pakistan go to UN and humiliate India. Infact, Pakistan should also file a case in International court of Justice and demand damages in addition. Don't you want to recover losses that Kalbhushan caused to CPEC and Baluchistan ????

You have a strong case. File it in ICJ.



Indian navy is one arm where Pakistan position is like a man standing in front of Eiffel tower. Furthermore, Pakistan wouldn't gain anything by hanging innocent but ire and blowback from India.

Sir your naval officer was carrying fake passport.his name on the passport was different and his real name is different. The question is how he was operating with the fake passport? Only spies can use fake passports to hide identity.your analyst and even government argue that how a person can travel with a passport? Question is why fake passport? He was clearly caught and you know pak army quiet well.this is not civil government decision.any decision coming in favor of yadav will not save him.kindly do pooja paat for his new life in another dimension xd