America's 'everything' fighter jet is a total disaster

[sonicboom]

Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry


The F-35 is an absolute disaster, and it needs to go. The scandals around it are legion.

The supersonic stealth plane called the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter was supposed to be the greatest and best military plane the world has ever seen. While the United States' stealthy F-22 is an "air superiority" plane, ensuring the country's dominance over the skies, which is why exporting it is illegal, the F-35 was supposed to be able to do everything, and be the standard fighter-bomber of the U.S. and most countries with which the U.S. has friendly relations. It was supposed to be stealthy, to be able take off and land vertically, and to know everything about everything thanks to its amazing software and sensors. It can't do any of those things so far.

The program has cost $1.3 trillion so far. By comparison, the Apollo Program, which actually sent people to the moon, cost about $170 billion in 2005 dollars. The F-35 is literally the most expensive military project in history. By 2014, the program was $163 billion over budget, and seven years behind schedule.

From the beginning the F-35 was practically designed to be a horrendous boondoggle. First, there was the idea to make just one plane that would fit every service branch's needs. The Marines wanted a vertical takeoff and landing plane that could bomb things on the ground. The Navy wanted a carrier-borne plane. The Air Force wanted a plane that could shoot other planes.

The original "Joint Strike Fighter" program, from which the F-35 grew, started out in the early 1990s. The goal was to replace most of the country's Cold War era fighters and bombers, including the F-16, the F-18, the A-10, and the AV-8B. The problem with this approach is that it lead to design by committee and design by wishlists. It turned out that trying to make a plane to do everything meant that it did everything poorly.

The project has suffered endless delays and cost overruns, and, still, the thing is half-baked. The latest problem is that the plane's software — absolutely essential for a 21st century plane — doesn't work. Former RAND author John Stillion has written that the F-35 "can't turn, can't climb, can't run." It's heavy, bulky, and doesn't carry that many weapons. It even has safety issues.

Every time the F-35 project it goes beyond schedule, every time it costs more than anticipated, every time something doesn't work, Americans are told it's just a bug, it's just a minor problem. Enough is enough.

There's a well-known trick by defense contractors to make sure a project is never killed and becomes a goose that lays golden eggs: spread the production of the thing over as many congressional districts as possible. But this time, the program took this old trick global. It's even better if you put as many countries in on the action as possible, because if by any chance one government balks, the others will carry it on. Lockheed Martin, which makes the F-35, is expertly practiced in the art of milking the U.S. government for cash.

It's time to end it. The only reason left not to do it is sunk costs — which is exactly the reason why it should be ended. Sunk costs are gone. Many defense experts agree that an air force would be better off using current F-16s and F-18s than the fantastically expensive F-35. U.S. defense specialist Winslow T. Wheeler and aircraft designer Pierre Sprey have written that given the F-35's astronomical costs and design flaws, any air force would be better off maintaining its fleets of F-16s and F/A-18s.

What about the United States' vaunted air dominance, and the need to have super 21st century planes because of China? Well, we might have had that plane, but we don't. The best incentive for defense contractors to produce good products is to show that Washington has the political will to shoot down a $1.3 trillion program in mid-air when it doesn't work.

Does Washington have that political will?

http://theweek.com/articles/601080/americas-everything-fighter-jet-total-disaster

 

[shah1398]

The concept of F-35 is unique and promising. The only thing lacking was patience. In my view they had hurried with the induction of F-35s as such sensitive, advanced and unique technology did deserve some more time. By rushing for F-35s they had wasted lots of money in hasty testings and subsequent inductions which most of the time fired back.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

F35 is actually slowly doing what it was meant for.
And as for this program failing, know this....
This program is too big to be halted.
I have read one line in Indian Railway project files discussing about the viability of projects and that line fits in here.

" The loss incurred by continuation of project will seem profitable when compared to the loss , that would be incurred by halting it. "

And about its capability, name one nation who wouldn't want this fighter , if we remove America from its manufacturers name and its running costs are comparable to other 4++ gen fighters ?

 

[C130]

The program has cost $1.3 trillion so far.

stopped reading after this point

 

[Fenrir]

stopped reading after this point

Should have stopped a few lines earlier. The last two lines of the first paragraph are pure garbage... as seen below with the claim it can't vertically take off or land.

to be able take off and land vertically. It can't do any of those things so far.

Totally can't do that:

 

[C130]

Should have stopped a few lines earlier.

I was hoping to see some credible reasons why it's a disaster, but the fact this article just said the F-35 program has cost $1.6 trillion dollars to date is a blatant lie.


I am no fan of the F-35 either. I think it's trying to do too many things in one platform on the premise that it'll save money in the long run.

 

[Fenrir]

I was hoping to see some credible reasons why it's a disaster, but the fact this article just said the F-35 program has cost $1.6 trillion dollars to date is a just blatant lie.

Yeah I was disappointed too. I thought we'd get new arguments, but it's the same crap that's been said for years. Seen it, moving on.

I think it's trying to do too many things in one platform on the premise that it'll save money in the long run.

For the US this might be true, replacing the A-10 with the F-35 sure seems a bit dunderheaded to me, though it'll be a fine replacement for the AV-8.

But as a rabid Norwegian, and former soldier with the RNoAF, I'm proud to welcome the F-35 into our military as a replacement for our 52 F-16s;

We're not replacing multiple types or roles with the F-35 like the US is, nor operating a carrier or VTOL version, it's a replacement for our F-16s only, on a one-to-one basis. As a replacement for the F-16, there's only one other choice I'd take - the F-22.

Besides, it can't be that bad. Our test pilot, Maj. Morten Hanche, seems pretty happy with his new toy:

 

[gambit]

So what happened to the V-22 Osprey critics ? Let me guess, they joined the F-35 critics.

 

[Azeri440]

Yeah I was disappointed too. I thought we'd get new arguments, but it's the same crap that's been said for years. Seen it, moving on.



For the US this might be true, replacing the A-10 with the F-35 sure seems a bit dunderheaded to me, though it'll be a fine replacement for the AV-8.

But as a rabid Norwegian, and former soldier with the RNoAF, I'm proud to welcome the F-35 into our military as a replacement for our 52 F-16s;

We're not replacing multiple types or roles with the F-35 like the US is, nor operating a carrier or VTOL version, it's a replacement for our F-16s only, on a one-to-one basis. As a replacement for the F-16, there's only one other choice I'd take - the F-22.

Besides, it can't be that bad. Our test pilot, Maj. Morten Hanche, seems pretty happy with his new toy:

in my opinion by the time F-35 replaces A-10. it will be a perfect solution to move on with the times.

 

[jhungary]

I probably needed to start writing article soon, if these kind of garbage can sell, why can't mine?

 

[knight11]

It's time to end it. The only reason left not to do it is sunk costs — which is exactly the reason why it should be ended. Sunk costs are gone. Many defense experts agree that an air force would be better off using current F-16s and F-18s than the fantastically expensive F-35. U.S. defense specialist Winslow T. Wheeler and aircraft designer Pierre Sprey have written that given the F-35's astronomical costs and design flaws, any air force would be better off maintaining its fleets of F-16s and F/A-18s.

What about the United States' vaunted air dominance, and the need to have super 21st century planes because of China? Well, we might have had that plane, but we don't. The best incentive for defense contractors to produce good products is to show that Washington has the political will to shoot down a $1.3 trillion program in mid-air when it doesn't work.

Does Washington have that political will?

Janab pls slow down your horse.

F-35 is the fantastic example of US politics and strategy. why ?

1. How many countries in the world have 5th gen warfare concept like US, for which this bird is the must, leave aside the perticular shape fighter plane with special coating and then chest thump that it is a 5th Gen fighter plane, but where are the other pieces like net centric, awaac, UAV, Smart weapons, Satellite, ground Radar, Ground units, all attached with the high speed, real time projected, automotive, battle field management. In a modern 4++ fighter plane the cost of the avionics is almost equal to the whole airframe. Take the example of the F/18 SH and F-15E/F, the cost of F/18SH is almost equal, though its airframe is inferior to the latest. F-35 have the superior sensors and its sensor fussion, giving the full image of the battlefield, thus the pilot is not the one who fly, and aim, and shoot the weapon, but the strategic decission maker in itself.

2. With F-35 US is making its allies more closer, or should I say, totally dependent on US, because this plane is just a white elephant, without US satellite, US equipment, US AEW EC, US network, US Datalink with complete monopoly over the US -- A fine example UK a trusted and old partner have to send, its own BAE missile to US and give its code, so that US will integrate it with its weapon store LOLZ.

3. A fine example how, US is using the money of the whole world to developed its secret weapons, and keeping its superiority in the world. Who know, US have completed its 6th Gen concept and now working on 7th, and F-35 is the test bed for it.

4. It shows how superior, US weapons are, in the world, so why enemy fears, allies increases with LSA, CISMOA, BICA in short in US camp, and keep the buisness of the US defence industry running. If I am not wrong, Desert storm was the marketing stunt of the US and its superior weapons show, thus giving more orders for its weapons industry by dumping some of the weapons which US have in abundant, so does these amunition have a expiry day: Certainly yes, so why not dump in Iraq, afghanistan and Libea, and chest thump the only savior for the democracy, and the mankind LOLZ, In reality, even if the Allied forces uses Mig 29, Mig 27, Mig 21 and Iraqi F-16, F-15, without AEW EC, the result would be the same.

Baki Lage Raho Bhai yo

I probably needed to start writing article soon, if these kind of garbage can sell, why can't mine?

Just written one. LOLZ

 

[kaykay]

F-35 is a reality and going to be one excellent aircraft once combat ready. But patience is required.

 

[dyingtoknow]

F-35 is a reality and going to be one excellent aircraft once combat ready. But patience is required.

Yup. It's amazing how much doubt people have towards this plane.

America has never had a failed fighter yet. If there's one thing America is good at it's building weapons.

I would back America any day of the week to deliver this project successfully.

I think people just like to hate on America because it's #1.

When the Pak Fa was announced (and at that stage only a computer generated drawing) it was already "the best fighter in the world" and would "destroy" the F35. The F35 "had no hope" and was "inferior". Now we're slowly finding out the truth, it's not the F35 that's going to fail it's the Pak Fa.

The only issue is America has a monopoly on the technology so if you're not a close ally it's hard to use this jet without compromising on your own country's security.

Janab pls slow down your horse.

F-35 is the fantastic example of US politics and strategy. why ?

1. How many countries in the world have 5th gen warfare concept like US, for which this bird is the must, leave aside the perticular shape fighter plane with special coating and then chest thump that it is a 5th Gen fighter plane, but where are the other pieces like net centric, awaac, UAV, Smart weapons, Satellite, ground Radar, Ground units, all attached with the high speed, real time projected, automotive, battle field management. In a modern 4++ fighter plane the cost of the avionics is almost equal to the whole airframe. Take the example of the F/18 SH and F-15E/F, the cost of F/18SH is almost equal, though its airframe is inferior to the latest. F-35 have the superior sensors and its sensor fussion, giving the full image of the battlefield, thus the pilot is not the one who fly, and aim, and shoot the weapon, but the strategic decission maker in itself.

2. With F-35 US is making its allies more closer, or should I say, totally dependent on US, because this plane is just a white elephant, without US satellite, US equipment, US AEW EC, US network, US Datalink with complete monopoly over the US -- A fine example UK a trusted and old partner have to send, its own BAE missile to US and give its code, so that US will integrate it with its weapon store LOLZ.

3. A fine example how, US is using the money of the whole world to developed its secret weapons, and keeping its superiority in the world. Who know, US have completed its 6th Gen concept and now working on 7th, and F-35 is the test bed for it.

4. It shows how superior, US weapons are, in the world, so why enemy fears, allies increases with LSA, CISMOA, BICA in short in US camp, and keep the buisness of the US defence industry running. If I am not wrong, Desert storm was the marketing stunt of the US and its superior weapons show, thus giving more orders for its weapons industry by dumping some of the weapons which US have in abundant, so does these amunition have a expiry day: Certainly yes, so why not dump in Iraq, afghanistan and Libea, and chest thump the only savior for the democracy, and the mankind LOLZ, In reality, even if the Allied forces uses Mig 29, Mig 27, Mig 21 and Iraqi F-16, F-15, without AEW EC, the result would be the same.

Well there's nothing that can be done about this situation: Russia is too poor to compete and China is not ready.

The 6th generation of fighter jets is where America, probably, will have competition from China. China will need 10 more years to catch up to America economically and probably another 10 years after that to build up the necessary technology and science sectors. So around 2025-2030 China will be ready, which coincides with the expected introduction of 6thj generation jets.
Until then you can either join the American camp, or wait it out like the French with 4.5+ generation fighters.

Besides, the exclusivity of 5th generation jets mean that you're most likely not going to face them in the skies anyway. And if you do face them you're probably up against NATO and that means you're ***** anyway, 5th generation jets won't help you.

The concept of F-35 is unique and promising. The only thing lacking was patience. In my view they had hurried with the induction of F-35s as such sensitive, advanced and unique technology did deserve some more time. By rushing for F-35s they had wasted lots of money in hasty testings and subsequent inductions which most of the time fired back.

Well, the F35 production schedule was based on the contract they signed to build the jet, which was made before they knew exactly what issues there would be with the F35. The production schedule was probably also an optimistic estimate for the project to get the contract with the pentagon and beat the competition.

In retrospect the F35 was always going to encounter issues like it has and Lockheed Martin undersold what difficulties could be expected, but that's why they won the contract and why they're great salesmen for their products.

 

[knight11]

Well there's nothing that can be done about this situation: Russia is too poor to compete and China is not ready.

The 6th generation of fighter jets is where America, probably, will have competition from China. China will need 10 more years to catch up to America economically and probably another 10 years after that to build up the necessary technology and science sectors. So around 2025-2030 China will be ready, which coincides with the expected introduction of 6thj generation jets.
Until then you can either join the American camp, or wait it out like the French with 4.5+ generation fighters.

Besides, the exclusivity of 5th generation jets mean that you're most likely not going to face them in the skies anyway. And if you do face them you're probably up against NATO and that means you're ***** anyway, 5th generation jets won't help you.

LOLZ,

Actually after USA, only Russia have the capability to make 5th Gen fighter plane but have problem with the funds, thats why they need India. And for China don't make them 11 inch tall, with 2 parallel 5th Gen fighter plane J-20 and J-31, but what would be the capablity only God and China knows but what I can observe myself with the SU-35 deal, that china lack serious in Engine and Radar tech. and for the 5th gen smart amunition, China might be looking toward again Russia, because for J-20 which is such a huge big fighter plane or Bomber, I don't know, but what I figure out is its a part of chinese strategy for its Area Deniel, Area Access strategy in the Yellow sea. In this area China might form a good air defence, and 5th Gen Battle field due to these facts :-

1. China Plan for the deployment of 40 Survellance satellite around the sea around China.
2. Chinese Deployment of indegenous navigational satellite.
3. Development of long range Anti CBG Ballastic missile like DF-21D
4. Long range Flankers, tankers, AEW EC, Ground Radar available

So in this area China may be able to field all pieces of the 5th Gen warfare with its own net centric warfare capability. I will make the US aircraft life difficult, because not only the Area of Access would be denied, from where they want to suppress the Chinese S-300, S-400 with its Growlers or F-35 and without that SEAD, air superiority over chinese airspace is impossible. Feel free to disagree PS @jhungary @Chinese-Dragon

I think For J-20 and J-15 offcource, I think China need an engine like F-135 and are seriously underpower.

Pls go through my post, I clearly stated that I am never impressed with the F-35 shaped aircraft, but even F-18SH or Rafale, with the superior sensors and high speed datalink and network awareness and network linked is what is known as 5th Gen warfare which China lacks, but anyway J-31 if tagged as 5th gen, Good luck for the sale as the Poor's men 5th Gen fighter plane.

The countries which have the capability to develop 5th Gen other than US excluding economical and political will are :-
1. Russia -- It has PAK-FA project, but lack of funds is delaying the project.
2. Japan -- She have all the pieces like Turbo fan engine, Optronic sensors, Aesa Radar, Composite, Metallurgical know how, but lack Political Will.
3. Europe -- Europe have the capability to build 5th Gen, but I think they will opt for 6th Gen or Stealth UAV then going for 5th Gen Aircraft.
4. China -- So China comes at 4th Position, but reason for China is the need (High priority), advantage Funds available, lot of pre Soviet Scientist and Engineers from Russia and CAR, Good Industrial Base, and high Political Will. and problem is Sanctions and US influence to deny the tech.
5. India, turkey, Israel, South Korea may try but in reality no chance without any serious help from either US or Russia in every thing -- Engine, Radars, Sensors, Metallurgy.

Good Day.

 

[shah1398]

Well, the F35 production schedule was based on the contract they signed to build the jet, which was made before they knew exactly what issues there would be with the F35. The production schedule was probably also an optimistic estimate for the project to get the contract with the pentagon and beat the competition.

In retrospect the F35 was always going to encounter issues like it has and Lockheed Martin undersold what difficulties could be expected, but that's why they won the contract and why they're great salesmen for their products.

Mr Obama when limited F-22s to just 180 and scrapped future production, indirectly had pushed LM to move faster with F-35 in both Air Force and Naval versions. I would rather replace the word OPTIMISTIC with FUTURISTIC as no matter how advanced LM's capability was in handling sensitive jets like F-35s, they were suppose to have encountered bumps in this case. On contrary F-35 was suppose to take down its opponent in stealth mode and never indulge in dogfight, so complaining about these issues are a bit unjustified with me as its doing its main job quite efficiently.