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American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

yeh uss ko dara tay hain jo dar jay

whenever these cowards were engaged with true mujahideen we saw how they were crying.

We will be fighting in our home and they r way away from their home and how many of us they will kill?

yeh itni bari fouj , missile kis din k liyai hain?

TARIQ
 
Maybe this message gave NATO to think twice. Do we expect Kiyani to sit and no statements comments? I think, this urgent message is helping all of us to cool down or satisfy audiences. It is same tricks from the previous OBL raid. There are already three strikes hitting hard on Pakistan (OBL, Mehran, now Checkpost Attacks).

Pakistan have self-right to defence to protect their country in assertives ways, not aggressives. Recently NATO boss Allen has ordered NATO to step back away from buffer zone, which is a bit good things.

PAF must act immediately, that's all.


I fear, there are some low-level or medium level army (angry) or sympathizers want to get rid of Kiyani or assassinate him in order to take a charge of Pakistan control since thousands Pakistani and 4000 soldiers died. That's what Kiyani worried.

I agree with your points Raptor, all of them.

But what is confusing to me is this:-

The troops deployed on the border have the right to defend themselves. If need be, they have the right to seek reinforcements too. Gen. Kayani made a statement that the CoC (Chain of Command) need not be followed by the troops, if under attack. Does it mean, that before his statement on CoC came out, the troops were to seek out the higher authority whether to defend themselves?

In essence, what I am asking is, how does it (breaking of CoC) make a difference in the position and situation of the troops deployed on the border if they do come under attack? They are supposed to defend themselves anyway, whether CoC is in place, or not!

The only difference I see is, it will become even more difficult in the coming times to ascertain which side of the border was at fault - if such an attack takes place again - So why mince the words, and make it appear even uglier?

Mere words won't fetch anything - let the things, that are need of the hour, be in place, but reserve the words to keep them from affecting the situation adversely.

With such anti-Pakistan sentiments rife across the western border, and such anti-American sentiments inside Pakistan (I bet a lot within the PA too), such breaking of CoC may raise the frequency of similar clashes, and the country may be heading toward some sort of war of attrition.

Many in here will say that Pakistan cannot just sit back and watch its sovereignty get violated. But what I am saying is, wisdom calls for minimizing the losses because Pakistan is not doing very well in all its sectors.

It is simply not in its right time, nor in its right in position to sustain the offensive coming in from all the directions, even more so when the adversary is aware of all its weaknesses.

Like Markham said - For all your days prepare, meet them ever alike: When you are the Anvil bear, when you are the Hammer, strike.
 
Anza II & Anza III are excellent MANPADS that can down any latest attack helicopter.

they need to defeat the IR jammers and countermeasures of the copter and have to be within range and surprise the Helicopter which means they cant be at the target location of the helicopter but in the path that the Helicopter may likely take and after firing the missile, make a run for it before the wingman responds with his gun or rockets.

@President Camacho
have you seen the video of the destroyed posts? the reinforcements cant reach there that easy, they have to walk and climb up to that place. the only possible reinforcements were through heli drop or the PAF jets.
so what would have the helicopters drop troops could have done apart from dying like the soldiers on the post already? they needed good enough air defence systems already deployed there that could have thwarted the attack, manpads were useless because the helis were firing range, leaving the only useful reinforcement and that being the PAF who didnt show up and in my personal opinion they should have but they saw the trap setup by the Americans

the helicopters would have fallen in Afghanistan or the US Jets flying the CAP nearby would have engaged and taken out the PAF fighters.

during Soviet occupation, our ROE stated that PAF would only engage if it was sure that the downed enemy craft will fall within Pakistan and Soviets wont have any excuse to blame Pakistan for aggression and mount an all out assault. ok we did have American planes but in it was only us who fought the air war with the super power and succeeded. The Soviet and communist Afghan Hinds used to violate the airspace and attacked the Afghan refuge camps near the borders too and sometimes used to get a way with it if they were hovering over the borders.

I don’t know what else did a third word country besieged by terrorism and hyper active super power could have done. We used our options by boycotting the conference, stopping the supplies and scaling down our cooperation in the drone war against the terrorists. For now that’s where our response shall end.

What happens in the future is anyone’s guess. Americans might launch even more brazen and provocative attack and might get away with it yet again (being a sole superpower has its benefits) or maybe they get a rude reception and then they return to base with casualties. Or the sense prevails and this all never happens.
So lets wait and see how this will play out but I can make a better prediction of what the Americans might do, depending on the outcome of their own investigation where they are the Judge & Jury and accused ;)
 
they need to defeat the IR jammers and countermeasures of the copter and have to be within range and surprise the Helicopter which means they cant be at the target location of the helicopter but in the path that the Helicopter may likely take and after firing the missile, make a run for it before the wingman responds with his gun or rockets.

if i can down it would not mind if i could not run away as long as i hit it

TARIQ
 
that is right

NATO will take us seriously once we can take out Molana Aunty of Red Mosque who says that dead Pakistan Soldiers dont deserve Islamic burial or prayers and also hang people like Malik Ishaq who walk out free despite admitting personally killing 90 people in front of the judge.

when our own citizens make a mockery of the writ of the state and its sovereignty with impunity then outsiders will never take us seriously.

my personal Opinion is that PAF should have made an appearence on the scene maybe just a flight pass within our borders to make the Helis halt their attacks and run for Afghansitan but that never happened. since PAF is not headed by Kiyani so I wont blame him for that.

---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 PM ----------

Yes! exactly I meant the same thing. At least showing the faces by our PAF at the incident spot , the precious lives of our poor soldiers/officers could have been saved. It is so sad that the elites of our PAF and Army created the reason that our communication system was disturbed. What the heck is this answer from the professional Army 7th in the world...??? How they are going to defend our country from a full scale invasion whereas our PAF failed to respond to 2 helis only. If they are so much scared of their lives then they must leave/quit our armed forces now. Our armed forces must be ready to take the lives of our enemies in case of threat. I guess this is the last chance for our ruling elites either Civil or military otherwise they must go home or hung up to the wall for treason......:smokin:
 
US has made mistakes likes these 3 times in past , and guess what they were investigated too , but No Results , no punishment . There is a reason why Pakistan has decided not to Take part & trust US investigation.

Mistake or not it was US/NATO' fault , They should have been professional enough to know what the hell they were going to strike .

First you people Mess up & then claim it was a mistake , Very Good strategy by US .

these ppl here who are harping investigation, investigation, even they dont believe their bullshit. Deep down even they know the culprits of this 'mistake' are going to walk away scott free.
 
they need to defeat the IR jammers and countermeasures of the copter and have to be within range and surprise the Helicopter which means they cant be at the target location of the helicopter but in the path that the Helicopter may likely take and after firing the missile, make a run for it before the wingman responds with his gun or rockets.

ANZA MK-III incorporates advanced ECCM systems with dual band infrared seeking system that is resistant to IR jammers and can distinguish b/w targets and countermeasures such as flares. As I said, it can down any latest attack heli.
 
ANZA MK-III incorporates advanced ECCM systems with dual band infrared seeking system that is resistant to IR jammers and can distinguish b/w targets and countermeasures such as flares. As I said, it can down any latest attack heli.
Yes! needz to be powerful missiles with low to medium range at all our frontline posts to counter any intrusion at all cost....:smokin:
 
Anza Mk-III - Believed to be based on the Chinese QW-2 MANPADS,[32] modifications made to meet Pakistan Army requirements include a new firing unit similar to the Russian 9K38 Igla MANPADS.[10][33] All-aspect attack capability and improved ECCM capability. The minimum altitude of 10 m gives capability to attack very low flying helicopters and cruise missiles. Also has a vehicle-mounted launcher variant.[11]


Length (missile and booster) 1.59 m
Weight (launcher and missile) 18 kg
Missile weight 11.32 kg
Propulsion Solid fuel rocket motor (solid fuel booster rocket on launch)
Guidance Dual-band infra-red homing seeker
Warhead HE fragmentation (containing 1.42 kg HE) with contact and graze fusing
Average cruise speed >600 m/s
Slant range 6,000 m
Altitude 10 m to 3,500 m
Weapon reaction time 3.5 s
Ready from the march 10 s
Battery life 50 s

I think its more than enough to down a apache ... One just needs the political will to do it ... :pakistan:
 
Anza Mk-III - Believed to be based on the Chinese QW-2 MANPADS,[32] modifications made to meet Pakistan Army requirements include a new firing unit similar to the Russian 9K38 Igla MANPADS.[10][33] All-aspect attack capability and improved ECCM capability. The minimum altitude of 10 m gives capability to attack very low flying helicopters and cruise missiles. Also has a vehicle-mounted launcher variant.[11]


Length (missile and booster) 1.59 m
Weight (launcher and missile) 18 kg
Missile weight 11.32 kg
Propulsion Solid fuel rocket motor (solid fuel booster rocket on launch)
Guidance Dual-band infra-red homing seeker
Warhead HE fragmentation (containing 1.42 kg HE) with contact and graze fusing
Average cruise speed >600 m/s
Slant range 6,000 m
Altitude 10 m to 3,500 m
Weapon reaction time 3.5 s
Ready from the march 10 s
Battery life 50 s

I think its more enough to down a apache ... One just needs the political will to do it ... :pakistan:

yes man its more than enough for helicopters . . . of any kind and size . . . .


---------- Post added at 01:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 AM ----------

Yes! needz to be powerful missiles with low to medium range at all our frontline posts to counter any intrusion at all cost....:smokin:

MANPAD missiles like anza and stinger are enough for helis, for jets we need medium and high altitude SAM's

i have seen a video of afghan war where mujahideen destroyed Russian attack heli with RPG, and it fell like a rock from the SKY.

if heli can be destroyed with RPG than it will be hell easy with MANPAD guided missile.
 
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MANPAD missiles like anza and stinger are enough for helis, for jets we need medium and high altitude SAM's

i have seen a video of afghan war where mujahideen destroyed Russian attack heli with RPG, and it fell like a rock from the SKY.

if heli can be destroyed with RPG than it will be hell easy with MANPAD guided missile.

for RPG the firer needs to be within 400m of the target and it can only happen when he is almost underneath it or the helicopter is landing or dropping troops from ropes. same goes with Manpads that they need to be less than their maximum distance to eb effective. thus giving less time to the helicopter to react.

indeed all above discussion is based on assumption that Americans decide to target Pakistani posts on a regular bases like their drone strikes on suspected Taliban/ AQ terrorist locations.

but once that starts happening then it wont stay at that level and may move to the next level of Jets where PAF would have to make an appearance for its name sake.

then kiss the peace goodbye. for sure Taliban will have a lot of willing recruits. I guess it will be Iran that will get the blame for helping Pakistan in the fight against the Americans. But wait, Americans are already blaming them for helping Taliban, the mortal enemies of Shias who have executed the Iranian diplomats and nationals wherever they found them during their time in power. It makes perfect sense for Americans to blame someone else for anything no matter how ridiculous that maybe.
 
The UK Telegraph appears to be suggesting that American officials are accepting the Pakistani account of 'the US providing the wrong coordinates to the Pakistani liaison officer' - still some unanswered questions, especially regarding the duration of the US attacks on the two posts, even after Pakistani officials had communicated with NATO officials regarding Pakistani bases being attacked.

Pakistan friendly fire deaths due to US officers' "errors" - Telegraph
 
The UK Telegraph appears to be suggesting that American officials are accepting the Pakistani account of 'the US providing the wrong coordinates to the Pakistani liaison officer' - still some unanswered questions, especially regarding the duration of the US attacks on the two posts, even after Pakistani officials had communicated with NATO officials regarding Pakistani bases being attacked.

Pakistan friendly fire deaths due to US officers' "errors" - Telegraph

Another oopsies moment by the US. I wonder in what creative way they sweep this one under the rug.
 
Maybe Pakistan Army had this option to try this example of brilliant boys shooting down Mi-24A HIND

Zigmas shooting down an Apache Helicopter - YouTube

:lol:


Charlie Wilson's War (8/9) Movie CLIP - Anti-Helicopter Light Missile (2007) HD - YouTube

watch


6 US helicopters shot down in 15 days in Afghanistan

6 US helicopters shot down in 15 days in Afghanistan - YouTube
 
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