American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Pakistanisage]

ISLAMABAD: Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar said on Wednesday that the supply routes for Nato troops will be restored only if Nato apologises for the “unprovoked attack” that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, Express News reported.
Mukhtar also said that Shamsi Airbase will be vacated by December 11 and no drone planes would be allowed to fly from the base after that.
Earlier in a Cabinet Defence committee meeting, Pakistan had decided to ask the US to leave Shamsi Air Base within 15 days and blocked ground supply routes through Pakistan to US forces in Afghanistan.
Washington was sent notices to vacate the narrow strip located in Balochistan following the deadly Nato attack.
Three sources, who declined to be identified because of the issue’s sensitivity, said that US planning was under way to leave the base.
The cross-border incident escalated tensions between the two countries and the US military is conducting an investigation to find out exactly what happened on the ground. The moves by the Pakistanis to block ground supply routes and the air base were not expected to significantly hinder US operations.
Read more: natoattack

---------- Post added at 01:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 AM ----------

Supply routes to be restored only if NATO apologises: Ahmad Mukhtar – The Express Tribune

PPP Govt. has a death Wish , I guess......

 

[alimukhtar]

PPP Govt. has a death Wish , I guess......

Yup you are ryt........ 2nd you

 

[sputnik]

Sorry for off topic but why Vcheng is banned ?

 

[Rafi]

Sorry for off topic but why Vcheng is banned ?

Is he a relative of yours, would explain everything Just kidding.

 

[President Camacho]

There are some significant differences in the environment in Pakistan today, compared to 2008.

The buildup to this attack has seen the Raymond Davis fiasco, the OBL raid, the Mullen rants, Hillary threats, and some major vilification of Pakistan in the Western media. Drone strikes have increased manifold since 2008, and they have also received correspondingly greater coverage and they have caused greater outrage.

In 2008 the military was also just recovering from the Musharraf years and the political parties were ascendant - that has reversed.

AM, with passage of time, new things happen. It is not like a vessel that is waiting to overflow. It is about management. Pacification of the general public is one crucial part of such management.

Increment in the number of drone strikes per year is no more a significant event than the allowance of such strikes. Public outrage at the first death of a civilian from a drone strike would be any time higher than the 1000th death, or increase in number of strikes.

About Mullen rants and Hillary threats, if they are significant in any way, then it is only because they are consumed by the people of Pakistan too. Such rants, and threats mean nothing in the seriousness of closed door talks and deals between the power-holders. Otherwise tell me, a Mullen rant, or a Hillary threat... can any time be bigger than Armitage saying to Mush that you better do it or we will bomb you to stone age?

Only difference is, words of Armitage were not heard by people of Pakistan. It was only the Army General who heard it, and he was pretty fine with it.

OBL raid is indeed a very very significant event, less because the US came so deep inside, more because the US in its own dirty way showed the world that "look, who was hosting the most wanted man".

The OBL raid was a much bigger problem for the PA, than for the people of Pakistan (who, much to the dismay of PA, came in the streets to show their solidarity for OBL). Yet, the PA did absolutely nothing, except for mincing the words - because it was content with the fact that within Pakistan, the PA was not demonized by the public.



Now AM, I will tell you about August 20, 1998. US wants Osama, hiding near Kunar/NW area. US warship comes to the Arabian Ocean, fires a Tomahawk, that lands in a Pakistani village, killing about 3 dozen villagers. Nothing in the news. No public drama. Clinton says sorry to Nawaz, who appears unexpectedly understanding of the situation and handles it very politely, in a mature fashion.

Way back in 1998, man it is bigger than OBL raid and any rants or threats or drone strikes. What does Pakistan say or do to the US? Nothing. Why? Because as long as people are not aware, it is all fine.

Well, it happens in all the countries, you only have to open your eyes. India does it, US does it, Pakistan does it too. Although I personally think that at this time, Pakistan has bit off a chunk tad too big for its throat. Americans do not only have a powerful Army, they also have a very powerful diplomatic, and economic force. And in these fronts, they are the masters of the world. PA should tread these waters more carefully.

-----------


By the way, just found out, you were right about NATO not accepting the attack as deliberate. I just read the confirmation.

 

[iPhone]

It is even sadder to see such an icon being a puppet for the ISI.

yeah, he's a puppet of ISI who pointed finger at the ISI on national television for the murder of Saleem Shehzad. Try harder.

And he's banned?

 

[iPhone]

You are conflating two things.

The Afghan Commandos attacked the Pakistani outposts with small arms fire for over 1 hour. The Pak soliders might have identified themselves to those Commandos.

The Afghans then called in Air Support in which NATO sent in two Apache Gunships who fired the hell fire missiles at the outposts and the attack was over in a matter of minutes.

Can you please explain why it took Apache Gunships 2 hours to take out two outposts when these same Apaches knocked out Saddam's Radars in the opening phase of the Gulf War in less than 2 minutes. The answer is, it didn't.
.

the attack came in phases. if you read the report by DGMO. First trip they fired flares, second phase they came and fired at the posts. 45 minutes to an hour later they came again to engage the posts one last time while troops tended to the wounded. The totalality of the event lasted around 2 hours.

There's no mention of engagement with afghan troops in the report. Nato's report is still due. So your arguement holds no weight that our soldeirs were engaged with the afghan side.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

it makes no difference because NATOs know --at the end of the day -- that Pakistan (and Iran to a good extent) are the one stakeholder that have what it takes to ensure that once NATO boots are gone (or scaled down) civil war wont ensue in that God-forsaken, cursed country.

so it makes no difference if amrullah saleh types are in power in Afghanistan because we know what will happen to those people once NATOs arent there with their blank cheque-book and protection.

Pakistan is here to stay. NATO should be viewed as old news; because their dedication to Afghanistan will be zilch once they have a dignified exit strategy (use your imagination to figure out what that means). The exact same arguments that America/NATOs are applying to Pakistan can be applied to Afghanistan vis-a-vis Pakistan. As long as they continue harboring anti-Pakistan elements, and until they make peace with Pakistan, Pakistan will do the needful to make sure Afghanistan doesn't cause trouble. No exceptions.

Pakistan has the basis for an excellent peaceful relationship with Afghanistan, including large crossover of ethnic tribes, but it will not materialize as long as Afghanistan lets itself be used by enemies of Pakistan ---or those with anti-Pakistani designs. We know who they are very well.

 

[iPhone]

The Attack happened in the middle of the night.

Night Vision Cameras cannot tell what kind of uniforms somone is wearing. And besides, the Apaches fired their Hell Fire Missiles 2-3 Miles away from the Posts.

It was the Afghan Commandos and their incompetence who called in these air strikes.

I think blame should be directed at them.

and nato's so stupid that without verfying the target they launched missiles at it. even though maps and coordinations of the posts had been given to them.

 

[notorious_eagle]

It is even sadder to see such an icon being a puppet for the ISI.

Its even more sadder to see how gullible some educated Pakistanis can be.

 

[Bhairava]

How freaking hard is it to make an unambiguous crystal clear statement that all NATO transit is terminated UNCONDITIONALLY and PERMANENTLY?
.

Harder than making a statement online, friend. It is freaking hard when you have the world's most powerful - economically & militarily - superpower breathing down your neck.

 

[Developereo]

you know, if that's the case they should've from the get go made a public stance that the incident is under investigation and it could be a mistake, instead of issuing blunt statements that the attack was unprovoked, soldiers were sleeping etc . why rile public's opinion, why make them outrageous only to cower at the end? i dont care about politicians but military is digging it's grave, too with these shinangins. ppl are gonna loose respect for the only institution they're proud of.

There are two issues here: what happened, and how to respond.

The decision to suspend NATO supplies has to come from the civilian government; the military will only implement the decision.

As for what happened, the Pak position has been pretty consistent throughout: the soldiers were sleeping (most of them); they did not initiate firing; NATO was notified of Pak positions beforehand and during the firing. The only thing that might have changed in the Pak narrative is the distance from the border (2.5km v/s 300m) and even that is less of an issue since the identity of the border posts has never been in doubt.

 

[Mercenary]

the attack came in phases. if you read the report by DGMO. First trip they fired flares, second phase they came and fired at the posts. 45 minutes to an hour later they came again to engage the posts one last time while troops tended to the wounded. The totalality of the event lasted around 2 hours.

There's no mention of engagement with afghan troops in the report. Nato's report is still due. So your arguement holds no weight that our soldeirs were engaged with the afghan side.

Still too early too tell what exactly happened. A full investigation needs to take place.

NATO should compensate Pakistan for this crime no doubt.

---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

and nato's so stupid that without verfying the target they launched missiles at it. even though maps and coordinations of the posts had been given to them.

That still needs to be determined in an joint investigation which needs to happen.

But sometimes stupid things happen. US bombed Canadian Soldiers in Afghanistan in 2006 killing 6 of them. So these things happen.

 

[Bhairava]

It can be one on one concessions.

Like we can to Germany, we will attend Bonn conference but agree to sell us those U-214 Submarines.

Or from USA, we can ask to give us more F-16s, and Super Cobra Gunships and some investment in our Electrical Infrastructure or give us loans to build dams, etc.

We cannot afford to make enemies of NATO when we have India right next door to us.

One of the most sensible posts.

A unfortunate things has happened. Now you can respond in two ways - if it had been a weaker country, respond militarily..since this is a stronger country emotionally blackmail them & extort concessions. Just like how Israel is doing to Germany. But then you need intelligent,pragmatic leaders for that.

 

[iPhone]

Still too early too tell what exactly happened. A full investigation needs to take place.

NATO should compensate Pakistan for this crime no doubt.

---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------



That still needs to be determined in an joint investigation which needs to happen.

But sometimes stupid things happen. US bombed Canadian Soldiers in Afghanistan in 2006 killing 6 of them. So these things happen.

so bro, if you're gonna wait till the nato's report comes out to get a clearer picture then you maybe should also refrain from making wild assumptions that are directly in contrast to and totally contradict Pak's investigative report.