America says China’s fifth-generation jet fighter J-31 stolen from its F-35

[Beast]

And Believe me It will Take Decades For Chinese Aviation Industry to Get to the Level of Sophistication of What You Calling " Fat Bird" Period

You mean India?

Our J-20 is already better than F-35. Sorry to burst your dream

There no officials confirmation except for Fanboys of sino-defence forums

Same Typical Claims for Chinese AESA fanboys describing j-11D fitted with Aesa equivalent to F-22 with equal number of T/R module's

Really? Maybe becos you do not understand Chinese?

Operational J-11B fitted with domestic engine, flying.

Can I see your mighty LCA fitted with Kaveri engine performing. Even a prototype will do

 

[empirefighter]

1.We Chinese all know our true capability，so does the USA，that is why they send 60 %air force to surround us ，but the US air force cannot get close to us because our airforce can expel them away.You India … such a low class country even cannot make a qualified rifle！The capability of India is very low. India is just like a child，boast himself every day，everyone pretends to focus on him but from deep heart，no one cares about it.
2.Copy？Copy Again？Why USA spend so MUCH MUCH money every year on intelligence，The F35 is a very top secret and can easily be stole by Chinese ？lol，choince 1.：USA is very stupid. choice 2:USA is very very vety stupid. choice 3:USA is a liar.
3.The future will be a very bright future，my Chinese fellows，today we spend so little money on technology innovation but we made very great success in technology because of our political system advantage and rich researchers resource，tomorrow the government will pour much more money into aviation industry，we will see a strong competence with USA. Lol，maybe from their jealous eyes，we will STEAL more and more from them.

 

[NKVD]

You mean India?

Our J-20 is already better than F-35. Sorry to burst your dream



Really? Maybe becos you do not understand Chinese?

Operational J-11B fitted with domestic engine, flying.

View attachment 272183

Can I see your mighty LCA fitted with Kaveri engine performing. Even a prototype will do

there is not much difference btw WS-10 and kaveri engine both are underpowered
and have quality issues and failed to perform desired results

j-20 don't even have operational AESA leave 5 gen network centric sensor fusion technology Apart

 

[mike jones]

NEW DELHI: American experts have accused China of stealing the US design in its first indigenously developed fifth-generation fighter jet, which was displayed at Dubai Airshow on Sunday, raising doubts over the achievement of the country which has stolen a march over India in developing the aircraft.

US defence and strategic affairs experts alleged that the design of the FC-31 "Gyrfalcon" or J-31, which was showcased for the first time abroad according to a Chinese military run portal, was stolen from the US-made F-35 in April 2009 when Chinese hackers entered the networks of American defence equipment maker Lockheed Martin.

The FC-31's airframe is similar to that of the F-35. The FC-31 also has two internal weapons bays that can carry guided and unguided weapons, just like the F-35.

"The similarity includes the use of two tracking mirrors and a flat-facetted optical window, with bottom fuselage placement just aft the radar radome," IHS Jane's Defence Weekly said.

The Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) is trying to sell FC-31 as an alternative to Lockheed Martin's F-35 joint strike fighter. Besides Chinese Air Force, Iran and Pakistan are understood to have shown some interest in this fighter jet.

AVIC officials present at the Dubai Airshow hailed the aircraft's "outstanding situational awareness" and said that the FC-31 is designed for "the demands of future battlefield environments".

Most aircraft experts believe, though, that China's F-35 cannot compete with the American fifth-generation aircraft. But not much is known about the aircraft, which has derivatives of Russian engine at this stage.

This aircraft first flew at the Zhuhai Air Show in China in 2014 and could reach full operational capability in 2024.



Read more at:
America says China’s fifth-generation jet fighter J-31 stolen from its F-35 - The Economic Times

Here's another thread dedicated to US tech that got stolen from Chinese.

Infringement and copyrights committed by China

 

[gambit]

well, j31 have two engines, but f35 only have one, then j31 is a copy?

The 'copying' here is the base technology. When analysts use the word 'copy', they do not mean it in the literal context. The proper context is that China did not indigenously develop X technology but relied heavily on outside sources and the acquisition of X did not came from transparent and legal means.

 

[mike jones]

The 'copying' here is the base technology. When analysts use the word 'copy', they do not mean it in the literal context. The proper context is that China did not indigenously develop X technology but relied heavily on outside sources and the acquisition of X did not came from transparent and legal means.

yup

 

[antonius123]

there is not much difference btw WS-10 and kaveri engine both are underpowered
and have quality issues and failed to perform desired results

j-20 don't even have operational AESA leave 5 gen network centric sensor fusion technology Apart

How much is the Thurst and TWR of Kaveri?

How do you know that J20 doesnt have AESA yet? It is funny to see your accusing chinese members that they are fanboy and they make claims without evidence, in the other way round it is you who make your own claim without evidence.

 

[jkroo]

Sigh, Americans are proving how dumb their internet security is again?

Anyone here can provide some solid proofs for the steal thing?

It's stereotype but it is still bought by many guys.

Good and move ahead.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Chinese arms exports pose zero threat to the F-35. The reasoning is simple. NATO countries (with perhaps the exception of Turkey) will not buy Chinese weapons. Japan will not buy Chinese weapons. Australia will not buy Chinese weapons. Lockheed pretty much has a monopoly in all these countries. It doesn't matter if the FC-31 is an inferior copy, a superior copy, or the Starship Enterprise. None of these countries are buying from China.

In reality, China is competing directly with Russia over market share in the developing world.

So the analysis boils down to this...

Do you prefer a J-10B/C or a MiG-35 that will probably never enter production?

Do you prefer a J-11D with AESA or a Su-35 with PESA?

Do you prefer J-20/FC-31 or a PAK FA that catches fire in front of the Indian delegation?

The choice is yours.

 

[gambit]

Sigh, Americans are proving how dumb their internet security is again?

Anyone here can provide some solid proofs for the steal thing?

It's stereotype but it is still bought by many guys.

Good and move ahead.

Sigh, the burden of proof here does not have to be courtroom quality.

For example...

PIC16F84A - 8-bit PIC Microcontrollers

When the US discovered these switches in IEDs in Iraq, an investigation revealed that these small but powerful switches can be adapted for multiple uses to become the typical 'dual use' export license restricted. Overseas shell companies and countries that have highly relaxed shipping laws are conduits for the purchase and transport of these switches to Iraqi insurgents.

Why are these switches desirable ? No one else make electronic switches ? Are there some kind of global licensing and intellectual property lock down on the manufacture of similar electronic switches ?

The reason THIS American designed and manufactured switch is desirable is because it is a proven product in terms of reliability and performance. The PIC16F84A model is used in common benign commercial products ranging from hobbyist toys to medical devices and finally all the way to home made bombs in Iraq. If a shipment of these switches -- say about 500 -- was found to have been shipped to Dubai and the tracking is lost in Dubai, the courtroom level burden of proof would not be met but there is no doubt in anyone's mind as to what would be the final destination and use of those switches.

Another seemingly benign item that can and have been used in non-commercial and non-civilian products is the 'lithotripter'...

Dornier MedTech - United States - Lithotripters
Extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is essentially a higher performance switch that can deliver thousands of amperes in time of nanoseconds. It is compact -- size of a standard grocery store grapefruit.

Civilian use -- Shattering kidney stones. Anyone who ever passed a kidney stone is grateful for this product.

Non-Civilian use -- A nuclear warhead trigger. Probably the only non-civilian use for a lithotripter. Pakistan's nuclear exporters sold nuclear warhead trigger designs to North Korea, Iraq, and Libya that specifically mentioned US-made lithotripter as the ideal configuration.

FRONTLINE/WORLD. Stories. Nuclear Underground. The Middleman. March 2005 | PBS

Hospitals use the devices to power lithotripters, which deliver an electrical punch that pounds kidney stones to dust so they can be expelled from the body. That, however, is not their only function. Installed into an enriched uranium casing, a triggered spark gap can ignite a nuclear explosion. Karni, according to the Justice Department, was in the middle of a deal exporting 200 of the devices to a buyer who might use them for just such a purpose. The buyer was Humayun Khan, an Islamabad businessman with close ties to Pakistan's military and who has been linked by U.S. government officials to militant Islamic groups, some of which are suspected to be arming fighters in the Kashmiri conflict.

What China did to acquire US technologies to accelerate the Chinese military is no different. Shell companies, arms dealers who know how to maneuver bureaucracies of many countries, manufacturers willing to sell under the table, incompetent and/or apathetic law enforcement in any country, etc...etc...

The issue is not about the whole engine or flight control computer or even an instrument. It is about acquiring thru opaque and often illegal means of acquiring base components and/or technologies that contribute to the larger components and/or making an indigenous technology a little bit better. The burden of proof does not need to be courtroom presentable, just enough for a journalist to make connections in a report will suffice.

It is funny how you guys routinely make insinuations and allegations of NGO connections to the CIA but demands absolute proof that China commits intellectual and even physical thefts of Western technologies to improve the Chinese military.

 

[Azeri440]

You mean India?

Our J-20 is already better than F-35. Sorry to burst your dream

based on your extensive knowledge on both airframes? let's be real you know nothing about J-20 or F-35

you just look at facade without understanding the meaning of complexity or the network capability of both air forces

 

[Economic superpower]

based on your extensive knowledge on both airframes? let's be real you know nothing about J-20 or F-35

you just look at facade without understanding the meaning of complexity or the network capability of both air forces

Then explain it to us. You're the 'expert'.

 

[Azeri440]

Then explain it to us. You're the 'expert'.

I don't know it either , none of us do , that's why it's unwise to just base such an opinion.

 

[jkroo]

Sigh, the burden of proof here does not have to be courtroom quality.

For example...

PIC16F84A - 8-bit PIC Microcontrollers

When the US discovered these switches in IEDs in Iraq, an investigation revealed that these small but powerful switches can be adapted for multiple uses to become the typical 'dual use' export license restricted. Overseas shell companies and countries that have highly relaxed shipping laws are conduits for the purchase and transport of these switches to Iraqi insurgents.

Why are these switches desirable ? No one else make electronic switches ? Are there some kind of global licensing and intellectual property lock down on the manufacture of similar electronic switches ?

The reason THIS American designed and manufactured switch is desirable is because it is a proven product in terms of reliability and performance. The PIC16F84A model is used in common benign commercial products ranging from hobbyist toys to medical devices and finally all the way to home made bombs in Iraq. If a shipment of these switches -- say about 500 -- was found to have been shipped to Dubai and the tracking is lost in Dubai, the courtroom level burden of proof would not be met but there is no doubt in anyone's mind as to what would be the final destination and use of those switches.

Another seemingly benign item that can and have been used in non-commercial and non-civilian products is the 'lithotripter'...

Dornier MedTech - United States - Lithotripters
Extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is essentially a higher performance switch that can deliver thousands of amperes in time of nanoseconds. It is compact -- size of a standard grocery store grapefruit.

Civilian use -- Shattering kidney stones. Anyone who ever passed a kidney stone is grateful for this product.

Non-Civilian use -- A nuclear warhead trigger. Probably the only non-civilian use for a lithotripter. Pakistan's nuclear exporters sold nuclear warhead trigger designs to North Korea, Iraq, and Libya that specifically mentioned US-made lithotripter as the ideal configuration.

FRONTLINE/WORLD. Stories. Nuclear Underground. The Middleman. March 2005 | PBS

What China did to acquire US technologies to accelerate the Chinese military is no different. Shell companies, arms dealers who know how to maneuver bureaucracies of many countries, manufacturers willing to sell under the table, incompetent and/or apathetic law enforcement in any country, etc...etc...

The issue is not about the whole engine or flight control computer or even an instrument. It is about acquiring thru opaque and often illegal means of acquiring base components and/or technologies that contribute to the larger components and/or making an indigenous technology a little bit better. The burden of proof does not need to be courtroom presentable, just enough for a journalist to make connections in a report will suffice.

It is funny how you guys routinely make insinuations and allegations of NGO connections to the CIA but demands absolute proof that China commits intellectual and even physical thefts of Western technologies to improve the Chinese military.

In short, you are proving US is dumb or narrow minded at least. No solid proof yet like MAD in Iraq. Connect everything to China is useless. China is not the country you imagine. And don't mention US and Japan's development process.

Further more you admit many stories exists in journalist's stories that feed many people. Well done and just move ahead. For people's pleasure, they could link ASAT, HGV, DF31, DF41, DF26, DF21D, J20, FC31, GX series and anything they are willing to add to the theft stories. I just don't care but have no problems for it. Keep going.

Actually, I don't care too much about western stories and I have no problems for our intellectual operations. We are honest people but not dumb. The most theft/robbery thing exist in western history so that the homiletic language is just much funny to me. The funiest thing is that China's fast development especially in military technologies is under the western weaponry embargoes.

Ok, I admit that it is a boring and wheezy topic.

 

[gambit]

In short, you are proving US is dumb or narrow minded at least. No solid proof yet like MAD in Iraq. Connect everything to China is useless. China is not the country you imagine. And don't mention US and Japan's development process.

Further more you admit many stories exists in journalist's stories that feed many people. Well done and just move ahead. For people's pleasure, they could link ASAT, HGV, DF31, DF41, DF26, DF21D, J20, FC31, GX series and anything they are willing to add to the theft stories. I just don't care but have no problems for it. Keep going.

Actually, I don't care too much about western stories and I have no problems for our intellectual operations. We are honest people but not dumb. The most theft/robbery thing exist in western history so that the homiletic language is just much funny to me. The funiest thing is that China's fast development especially in military technologies is under the western weaponry embargoes.

Ok, I admit that it is a boring and wheezy topic.

In short, I see that as usual, the Chinese on this forum are delusional about the reality that China have been conducting industrial espionage in order to modernize the PLA.