AMCA configuration in final stages

[kurup]

The problem with DRDO is that it can't deliver on planned projects, and keep on wasting tons of money on dead projects. Hey, it does very well in keeping bunch of know-nothing sitting around doing nothing. Keep up the good work.

Not worthy to respond.

refute what he is saying with points and proofs. counter-trolling is not a good option

Sorry for my posts.His kind of trolls doesnot allow any good discussion to continue in this section.

 

[IndianArmy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

Seems ADA has elongated the air frame.

I do hope ADA refines the cockpit canopy- this current design is not a "bubble" canopy.

F-22:

I would expect the AMCA to have such a canopy before entering service. By some accounts the LCA MK.2 is set to have a redesigned bubble canopy so ADA should have the know-how to develop the system for the AMCA.



IMHO the AMCA is one project the ADA/HAL/MoD/IAF can take their time with. The platforms the AMCA is set to replace namely the M2K,MIG-29 and Jags are all being upgraded to be relevant until ~2023-5 not to mention the IAF is going to be procuring a hell of a lot of other fighters up to this time (LCA,MKI, FGFA and Rafale) so the design agencies have quite a bit of time at their disposal to get the AMCA right.

 

[S-DUCT]

I do hope ADA refines the cockpit canopy- this current design is not a "bubble" canopy.

F-22:

Sir,why it's necessary to have bubble canopy in stealth fighter?.



I would expect the AMCA to have such a canopy before entering service. By some accounts the LCA MK.2 is set to have a redesigned bubble canopy so ADA should have the know-how to develop the system for the AMCA.



IMHO the AMCA is one project the ADA/HAL/MoD/IAF can take their time with. The platforms the AMCA is set to replace namely the M2K,MIG-29 and Jags are all being upgraded to be relevant until ~2023-5 not to mention the IAF is going to be procuring a hell of a lot of other fighters up to this time (LCA,MKI, FGFA and Rafale) so the design agencies have quite a bit of time at their disposal to get the AMCA right.

Why it's necessary to have bubble canopy in stealth fighters?.
PAK-FA,X-32 have two piece canopy.

 

[Markus]

Well, the AMCA design looks good, lets see how it turns out to be.

With learning curves from LCA and Su-30 MKI in place, AMCA should be possible.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Why it's necessary to have bubble canopy in stealth fighters?.
PAK-FA,X-32 have two piece canopy.

AFAIK the PAK-FA will have a completely different canopy on the final production standard machine. Current canopy is used for convenience whilst certain criteria are tested. Once the canopy is developed it will be on later prototypes. So the PAK-FA/FGFA WILL feature a bubble canopy. We don't know what the final X-32 model would have looked like or whether it would have had a bubble canopy or not.


+ the advantage is greater situational awareness for the pilot by giving them a much wider filed of view as compared to "flush" canopies namely the "six o'clock" position directly behind the pilot.

 

[S-DUCT]

Thanks for explanation.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Thanks for explanation.

No problem buddy!

 

[Kinetic]

Well, the AMCA design looks good, lets see how it turns out to be.

With learning curves from LCA and Su-30 MKI in place, AMCA should be possible.

India took long time to develop agni 2 &1 but took 2/3 years to develop agni 3/4/5. Same way infra for 5th gen fighter in place; it will not take long time to develop.

 

[sancho]

Regarding Kaveri, getting dry throust is not enough alone. Wet thrust is also too complex thing. They are stuck with TET issue and seems with current knowledge they wont be able to make any improvement.

True, but even if the K9 wasn't useful, by 2025 we will have the K10 with at least 90kN wet thrust too, perfectly in time to replace the RD33 MKs during the first upgrade.
My point is, that we all love the MKI in which we added more and more Indian parts too, so integrating Indian radar and engine into Mig 29K would be the next logical step according to our capablities. But we (ADA/DRDO) prefer N-LCA only because it would be a completet Indian fighter. Simply silly imo!

China hsa a bigger R&D bugget than us and even they are working on engine long before and still you see they have to reply on import.

Which proves that money alone won't get you latest techs, that's where you need a good base of knowledge and experience and that is exactly what we can get from foreign partners, but they can't!
Going the same way as China means limiting ourself, but using our advantage of access to foreign markets and partners, will boost our industry and the capability of the forces!

Kaveri does produce a thrust of 82 kN. I am really surprised since when the culture of blaming the Indian Industry started, not that I am a fan boy of it.

According to the recent reports, only arround 70kN and there is no blaming of Indian industry, infact I am one of the few that are doing it, while the rest mainly searches for excuses for them. But I am not doing it out of fun, because I don't like them or indigenous developments, my point are that they are ineffective because they develop according to their interests and not in favour of our forces.

So we must understand that there were some significant developments happening in our country and would continue to happen

Again, you seems not to follow news about Kaveri, because the K9 has failed and now MoD is officialy searching for a foreign partner to get it on track again, WITH the support of GTRE btw!

What if I say yes we know? Read publications from institutions like C-DAC ,IISC, IIT and you would really come to know that this nation has everything to go ahead with AMCA.

In theory maybe, pratically we don't and that is proven now through the failures of the LCA project and without finishing this, there is no proof that our industry has at least some of the necessary capability. That's why going for AMCA at this point without foreign support is just a joke, because it's just like we started LCA, without a base, without knowledge, without experience!

I am really clueless on how easy is it for you to believe that a 4th Gen pulse doppler radar is basic

Because we started it decades ago and still are not even able to upgrade a single fighter with such a 4th gen radar, let alone to use it in LCA MK1, which still is not confirmed yet. Developing such a tech is one thing, miniturizing it in the size of a fighter radar, while still remaining capable is a whole other point and so far there is no hint that we have finally did it. So when you didn't get that done, don't expect an AESA to be ready anytime soon.

 

[sancho]

OP indicates that ADA emphasizes more on strike capability while designing AMCA.

FGFA will be multi role but I am sure It's designers have emphasized on A2A capacity of FGFA.

Just like Rafael is multi role but better suited for A2G role.

In this context decision to develop AMCA is right.

That's not correct, both fighters will be multi role fighters and the increased payload and fuel capability, makes FGFA even very useful in any kind of strike roles.

Possible weapon configs:

http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Aircraft/PAKFA/T_50/T_50_ΑrmamentEng.jpg


No matter if CAS, SEAD, heavy or deep strikes, AMCA will offer no advantage over FGFA and since we get full source codes and the rights to integrate whatever weapon we want, we can even use the same weapons AMCA would get

 

[Sergi]

Why do you assume I browsed PDF during work? I looked at PDF in non-working hours, like at night. Oh wait. I forgot. You Indians like to slack off during work. Cheating on company time to browse the net during work comes natural for you. You are seriously stupid to project your own lack of ethnic into others. Well, let's not go into the detail of your intelligence cause there ain't any.

i know you have a retard brain still going to replly you
comprehension problem ??? Read that post again and prey your god you understand that. If you want I can show you the timings of your posts. And they run pretty much at odd times. So you wana say you browse PDF in non working hours and sleep in working hours comredoooo that's sick well I guess that make your every UN-American
You can't go into my intelligence people like you generally missed the train on at topic

Kaveri is not working, yet. It had only one primitive in air test to run for a short time. How do you know it won't blow up if it run any longer?

you have some links for that or just pull our of your ......
Kaveri is used in Russian test plane. It behave normally. But I guess that won't be enough for you.
On blowing off , even cheap Chinese copies don't blow off so you can relax

The problem with DRDO is that it can't deliver on planned projects, and keep on wasting tons of money on dead projects. Hey, it does very well in keeping bunch of know-nothing sitting around doing nothing. Keep up the good work.

Why that should concern a so called American ??? Trolling earges or some fake pole dance on ashamed flag ???

 

[Sergi]

That's not correct, both fighters will be multi role fighters and the increased payload and fuel capability, makes FGFA even very useful in any kind of strike roles.

Possible weapon configs:

http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Aircraft/PAKFA/T_50/T_50_ΑrmamentEng.jpg


No matter if CAS, SEAD, heavy or deep strikes, AMCA will offer no advantage over FGFA and since we get full source codes and the rights to integrate whatever weapon we want, we can even use the same weapons AMCA would get

In short you wana say we don't need a 5th Gen plane in medium class.

What's your opinion on air superiority fight between a heavy fighter and a medium fighter of same capabilities ???

 

[WHITESMOKE]

True, but even if the K9 wasn't useful, by 2025 we will have the K10 with at least 90kN wet thrust too, perfectly in time to replace the RD33 MKs during the first upgrade.
My point is, that we all love the MKI in which we added more and more Indian parts too, so integrating Indian radar and engine into Mig 29K would be the next logical step according to our capablities. But we (ADA/DRDO) prefer N-LCA only because it would be a completet Indian fighter. Simply silly imo!



Which proves that money alone won't get you latest techs, that's where you need a good base of knowledge and experience and that is exactly what we can get from foreign partners, but they can't!
Going the same way as China means limiting ourself, but using our advantage of access to foreign markets and partners, will boost our industry and the capability of the forces!




According to the recent reports, only arround 70kN and there is no blaming of Indian industry, infact I am one of the few that are doing it, while the rest mainly searches for excuses for them. But I am not doing it out of fun, because I don't like them or indigenous developments, my point are that they are ineffective because they develop according to their interests and not in favour of our forces.




Again, you seems not to follow news about Kaveri, because the K9 has failed and now MoD is officialy searching for a foreign partner to get it on track again, WITH the support of GTRE btw!



In theory maybe, pratically we don't and that is proven now through the failures of the LCA project and without finishing this, there is no proof that our industry has at least some of the necessary capability. That's why going for AMCA at this point without foreign support is just a joke, because it's just like we started LCA, without a base, without knowledge, without experience!




Because we started it decades ago and still are not even able to upgrade a single fighter with such a 4th gen radar, let alone to use it in LCA MK1, which still is not confirmed yet. Developing such a tech is one thing, miniturizing it in the size of a fighter radar, while still remaining capable is a whole other point and so far there is no hint that we have finally did it. So when you didn't get that done, don't expect an AESA to be ready anytime soon.

2025 is 12 good years away so I too am very much hopeful about Kaveri by that time. Even AESA would also be there. Further I am waiting for the details of TOT for MMRCA. Even as the talk is going on to increase the numbers close to 200, I am sure something concrete will be demanded either about engine or Aesa. But on the other hand no one would like to have another competitor in these fields so our negotiators will have to do a lot hard work. Lets wait and see. About Chinese R&D, yes absolutely, not everything can be gained by money or reverse engineering. They have reached the limit of reverse engineering and from here on, they will have to focus on local research only. So I see same curve for India and China in engine development, unless India can get some additional help through these deals.

 

[fast]

i know you have a retard brain still going to replly you
comprehension problem ??? Read that post again and prey your god you understand that. If you want I can show you the timings of your posts. And they run pretty much at odd times. So you wana say you browse PDF in non working hours and sleep in working hours comredoooo that's sick well I guess that make your every UN-American
You can't go into my intelligence people like you generally missed the train on at topic
you have some links for that or just pull our of your ......
Kaveri is used in Russian test plane. It behave normally. But I guess that won't be enough for you.

Since you brought the comprehension problem, your horrible brain dead writing does make it difficult to understand. It's like trying to decrypt gibberish from a deranged person. Yes, please go ahead to be a fool and show me the timing of my posts to prove I am not an American. You don't even know where I am, what work I do, what time I work, what time I sleep, and you are certain the time of posts mean anything. Good luck, Sherlock wannabe.

Kaveri was running briefly in an IL with all its engines but one running to prevent it from falling off the sky. It's like a turn on, yep, it runs, and shut it off before it blows up kind of thing. Until it can power a plane by itself, don't call it working.